Drudge Report headlines Condi slur

in that "cartoon"? He's implying that Condoleeza is GWB's "house ni**er" that services his every "desire". Oh, I see. I guess because his cartoon lampoons the conservatives more and because he's liberal, and he's seen how liberals call Justice Thomas an "Uncle Tom" and no doubt he feels perfectly justified in his racism. Sorry you feel it necessary to back him on it.

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So apparently you agree that the Muslim suicide post was racist after all.


Dan

... but if it is a repeat of one posted a while back, it pokes fun at a culture. This is more of the attack on a person for the color of her skin. INEXCUSABLE, and not justified by "but that joke was racist".

Are you implying that it's OK to mock someone's culture but not their skin color. If the punchline had been about a stereotypically African-American cultural point would that have been more acceptable for you?

Dan

I'm not sure there is one Islamic culture, not based on all the difference opinions we see claimed on news between the avowed terrorists and the avowed peaceful members of different divisions of Islam.

It may be close to the line, but it should those Muslims that publically condemn the suicide bombers be disturbed by what is said directed to terrorists?

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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"It may be close to the line, but it should those Muslims that publically condemn the suicide bombers be disturbed by what is said directed to terrorists?"

It may be close to the line, but should those Muslims that publically condemn the suicide bombers be disturbed by what is said directed to terrorists?

Meaning why should peaceful Muslims be insulted by criticism of Islamic terrorists?

Uneasy maybe, but not insulted by disgust with terrorists. no?

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

But the disgusting attack was comprised of slurs against what the ignorant believe is Arab culture in general. If this disgusting attack had used features that were specific to terrorists exclusively, the discussion might be different.

Dan

No, I'm implying that there is general stereotypical humor associated with many groups -- blonde jokes, redneck jokes -- I've seen a similar one about Catholics, Jews, etc. The only reason that (have now gone and read it) is objectionable to you is that it refers to the current "protected PC group" du jour. Along the lines of it being OK for a black comedian to make fun of blacks and whites alike, but white comedians can't do the same, etc. All such humor has the ability to offend some, especially those who cannot laugh at themselves. The taste of some humor can be legitimately questioned and disagreed upon.

The personal slur of Rice along racial lines is just TOTALLY unacceptable viewed in any light.

Del is not Islamic. You must object to him delivering such an attempt at humor.

Thanks for trying to tell me why I object to such things, but you're mistaken. I object to it because it is hateful and disgusting.

Dan

You will have to forgive me for any confusion. I'm not quite myself these days.

My point was this is PC garbage over the "sensitivites" of "protected groups" over HUMOR.

As in it is rare that a white comic could get away with black stereotypes, but black comics make fun of black AND white alike but that is OK. I've seen Christians mocked with no outrage by you here. There've been lots of Male/Female jokes, Old/Young, Conservative/Liberal, Irish, Redneck, etc. This was along those lines, and while everyone is entitled to their own "taste quotient" for such jokes, you are certainly not in any position to judge any of us who might have found that funny. Including, BTW, the Muslim friend of Del's who sent it to him in the first place.

Now the attack on Condi was not only racial, but personal, and should not be tolerated by anyone. However since she is not the "right type of black" (nor woman for that matter), you won't be hearing any outcry from the NAACP (doesn't one of those A's stand for Advancement -- she is a pretty shining example of what they puport to achieve!) or NOW any time soon. Disgusting, but not unpredictable for those with double standards where racism is concerned.

Del's attack was so hateful and disgusting that it was not even recognizable as the failed attempt at humor that he claims it to be.

Are there myriad and changing standards regarding who can acceptably make jokes about what groups? Absolutely. There always have been and always will be. That is just one of the realities of this society. Typically, members of a group may amuse at the expense of their own group or of groups that are generally regarded as less 'oppressed' or more 'privileged' (for lack of better terms) than their own group. Don Rickles got to mock all comers so these rules of thumb are pretty loose, at best. Is this facet of society good or bad? Absolutely.

These standards are, as I said, constantly changing. One of the ways that change comes about is for those who object to state their objections. In the case of this disgusting attempt at debasement, several people have come forward to object. Sadly, others have stated they relish such discourse. Has the standard for our little community improved? I hope so, but I fear it has not. To add to the complexity this community has a standard of behavior that is imposed upon it. I don't know how much of each forum Lee reads, but this may prompt him to encourage the moderators to more stringently enforce the TOS against future such appalling violations.

Dan

... if you think a clearly personal racial attack is not nearly as bad as a humor piece (even if you Dan didn't find it funny, Del's Muslim friend apparently did find it so, and enough so to forward it to him) of a more general nature (and about terrorists no less, not the religion as a whole), then there is really no need for further discussion.

Apparently you found the attack on Rice funny enough to jokingly ask what Bush's real nick name for her is.

Your mind reading skills have really hit on hard times, Evie. I wasn't joking. It's well known that bush has little nicknames for many people. I don't know what he call Rice. Do you know?

Dan

After 9/11 "Warrior Princess" is frequently used. With the exception of her Condi nickname, many of use find all the rest contain some degree of disrespect and condescending -- kind of if you can't equal her integrity, brilliance, honesty, etc., then attack her personally

Best link I could find.

Prime-time TV shines spotlight on Bush's adviser

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/world/story/0,4386,244856,00.html

In defending Mr Bush during the commission hearings, 'Condi' - as the President and her friends call her - showed the mixture of firmness, clear-headedness and school marmish charm that has earned her more nicknames, from 'steel magnolia' to 'velvet hammer'.

... and that of Clarke, it seems pretty clear that he was one of those who couldn't deal with being subordinate to such a class act. I don't often cry "sexism" but THIS is about as transparent a case as one can see. She is brilliant, among her other attributes, imminently qualified for her position and given her relationship to the President, there would be no reason for Clarke to take her placement as NSA in any way a smack in his face. I can't help but think this man had a huge problem with being surplanted by a woman, and a black one at that. I don't have any "intuition" to base any feelings on Clarke's views on race, but his utter disdain for Dr. Rice is obvious, and it is clearly one born of jealousy for her superior character and intellect.

Good to see you here more

Evie

I think Del's post crosses the "stereotypical humor" line with lines like these:

Your wives can't shave.

You can't shower to wash off the smell of donkey cooked over burning camel dung.

Your bride is picked by someone else. She smells just like your donkey, but your donkey has a better disposition.

That's just plain insulting and appears to be directed at all Arabs, not just just terrorists. IMO it's at the same level as jokes made about Germans that include references to Hitler and lampshades. I'm sure you wouldn't find those acceptable or amusing, Evie. Nor would I.

FWIW I thought the Doonesbury cartoon crossed that line too, at least the way I saw it. Maybe we all missed Trudeau's intent or something, since he's never done any racist cartoons that I can recall.

... would cross my lines of personal taste as well. But I take Del at his word that the joke was forwarded by an Islamic friend so one must consider that if it was acceptable/funny to this friend, it was viewed in that light. That said, I think the statements you singled out are more akin to jokes about French women who don't shave and bathe less frequently than they do to any Hitler reference/joke. I also don't see them as being that much different than the Catholic joke -- which BTW I found funny but there are many parallels that can be found equally offensive to some.

To me there is a clear difference between Del's joke and the Doonsebury cartoon. One is of a general nature, poking fun although I can see how some might take offense. The Doonsebury was PERSONAL against Rice using a racial stereotypical slur. I am unsure if he has explained and/or apologized for that. It was by any measure out of line and shouldn't be let to pass without rebuke.

Evie

Muslim is not a race.

If there is a problem, it's religious slurs, not racial.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

A prejudiced, bigoted, hatefilled b@stard, by any other name...


Dan

But it is a fact.

There is a difference between racism and religious bigotry. We may condemn either, but that doesn't make them the same thing.

Just as there is a difference between race and religions. Supporting either doesn't make them the same either.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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