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Question

Dreaded "Blue Screen" with a difference!

by colinito / January 18, 2018 3:31 AM PST

Hello Everyone,
Using Lenovo laptop G585: W10 Version 1709: Firefox 57.0.4. 64 bit

Over the last 4 days I have had a sudden blue screen whilst working on my laptop, for 3 to 5 times a day. The notice is in Spanish, I have provided a “rough translation” below.
se ha producido un problema en su PC necesita reiniciarse. Vamos a recopilar información sobre el error y después se reiniciará automáticamente.

Para obtener más información de este problema y posibles correcciones, visita https://windows.com/stopcode

Si llamas a una persona de soporte técnico, dales esta información;
detener código SYSTEM THREAD EXCEPTION NOT HANDLED lo que fue erróneo: ndis:sys
&%&%&%&
There has been a problem where your PC needs to restart. We are going to compile information about the error and then it will restart automatically.
To obtain more information about this problem and possible corrections, visit https://windows.com/stopcode
If you call a technical support person, give them this information;
stop SYSTEM THREAD EXCEPTION NOT HANDLED code what was wrong: ndis: sys
&%&%&%&

I have attempted to discover details by visiting the link above but in my ignorance, I am unable to find where to go to get corrections or details. I get to Support and the Virtual Agent is obviously not programmed to understand the words mentioned on the blue screen.

This seems to only happen when I have my Yahoo and Gmail open and I am typing on a Word Document. Suddenly the blue screen comes up and work is forcibly stopped.
When it has automatically restarted and I have entered my password again, all the icons on the desktop are jumbled up – quite a frustrating procedure putting them back in order!
If anyone can advise me what to do to prevent this, it would make using this W10 thing so much better. At this moment all I want to do is to get rid of it and return to something more manageable like W7!! Or even go “mad” and try Linux – but all systems must have their problems, so if I did that I would have not only a steep learning curve, but how to deal with problems added to that!

Regards,
Colin.

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All Answers

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Answer
Re: blue screen
by Kees_B Forum moderator / January 18, 2018 3:43 AM PST

This looks like an error in the video driver from Nvidia. Could be caused by a Windows update if you didn't yet tell Windows to never update drivers.

Start with a driver rollback from Device Manager to see if that solves it.

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Re: blue screen
by colinito / January 18, 2018 4:16 AM PST
In reply to: Re: blue screen

Hello Kees,
Thank you for your reply.
I went to Control Panel/Device Manager. But I do not know how to discover which driver is from nvidia.
I went to Settings/View Update History, under – “January 3, 2018—KB4056892 (OS Build 16299.192)” and spent a long time reading through all the details, there didn’t seem to be anything relating to drivers - but maybe I didn’t understand!

I tried searching for “Drivers” and “nvidia drivers,” but that was unsuccessful in the Devices and Printers section of the Control Panel.
Do you have any further suggestions, please?
Regards

Colin

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Re: Device Manager
by Kees_B Forum moderator / January 18, 2018 5:18 AM PST
In reply to: Re: blue screen

In Device Manager, look under Display Adapter.

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Re: Device Manager
by colinito / January 18, 2018 7:19 AM PST
In reply to: Re: Device Manager

Hi Kees,
Thanks for your reply.
Display Adapter only expands to show - AMD Radeon HD 7430 Graphics. I also looked in DVD/CD ROM Drives; Sound, Video and game controllers, but nothing was evident there either.

Regards
Colin

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Re: ndis.sys
by Kees_B Forum moderator / January 18, 2018 7:58 AM PST
In reply to: Re: Device Manager

Sorry, I was wrong.

ndis.sys is a is from Microsoft, and it's related to your network interface. It's located in c:\windows\system32\drivers. Mine in Windows 7 has a change date of 1.1.2018 and is created on 13.1.2018, which most likely is caused by a regular Windows update.

Since you have Windows 10, can you check the date of latest Windows Updates in the settings App (then Update and then view history). If that date is 4 days ago also, I'd say you have a serious problem.
But if it's longer ago, you have a serious problem also. Then it could be a hardware issue.

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ndis.sys
by colinito / January 18, 2018 8:46 AM PST
In reply to: Re: ndis.sys

Hello Kees,

Thank you, or maybe not! Bad news is never good to receive! “Serious Problem” is a bit frightening to see!

I wrote an answer earlier in the thread and said that I had looked at the latest update, the details of which I Copy and Paste here - “January 3, 2018—KB4056892 (OS Build 16299.192)” which shows it is 15 days ago.

Maybe there is hope for me yet as it only started to show in the last 4 days!

Is there anything that you specifically wish me to look at in the list that appears under this heading in the Update History?

Regards

Colin

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Re: ndis.sys
by Kees_B Forum moderator / January 18, 2018 8:55 AM PST
In reply to: ndis.sys

Try System Restore to go back 5 days. That might help against software issues that suddenly appeared and are not related to Windows Update.

Otherwise the prospects are bad. Possible next steps, that you won't like at all:
- going back to factory conditions
- find a repair shop to check the hardware

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ndis.sys
by colinito / January 18, 2018 9:03 AM PST
In reply to: Re: ndis.sys

OK; Kees,
It last happened this morning over 7 hours ago.
When / if it happens again, I'll do a restore to before 5 days.
If nothing happens, I shall wait for a day or so to post a further report, so please don't close the thread yet!

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ndis.sys (4)
by colinito / January 18, 2018 12:29 PM PST
In reply to: Re: ndis.sys

Well, Kees, I'm back!

I had just dealt with email in my Yahoo inbox and gone to my Gmail inbox, under a different tab. I tend to write my letters in a Word Doc - as my fingers are a little large and I keep hitting the wrong keys - and copy & paste them into what I am using at the time.

I was half way through a reply letter to a friend I got that Blue Screen Warning and the PC cut out - to be automatically restored later.

So, true to my word, I started to arrange a System Restore.

I have done some system restores before with W7. This is my first, and hopefully my last, with W10.

I started and only one restore point was shown .- two days ago - 16th.
There is no provision, in this very annoying W10, to choose a date that you want the restore to start from.

My aim was to go back 5 days to before this problem started. But NO, this is Microsoft's baby, and you can't choose to do what you want, you will do as you are told!

I find this a most annoying, my troubles started on 14th. So there is a very good chance that this restore will fail.

What an utter waste of time this last 45 minutes will have been if it has done nothing.

Don't hold your breath, I hope all will be well, but don't close the thread just yet, please!

Regards

Colin.

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Re: date
by Kees_B Forum moderator / January 19, 2018 9:00 AM PST
In reply to: ndis.sys

It's not the date the change is issued by Microsoft, but the date it's installed with you. That can be later. In the history screen, it's one line below the name.

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AMD computer
by James Denison / January 18, 2018 12:53 PM PST
In reply to: Re: Device Manager

Is your CPU also an AMD? I see your video (onboard?) is AMD. This started about the time the first update against Meltdown and Spectre was issued. That update has caused many AMD users problems. Microsoft has since withdrawn that update for sending to AMD users. It's probably still on your computer. Some AMD users have computers that even fail to boot now, due to the deficient update that was sent out. You can found all you need about it in this thread I've been maintaining.

https://www.cnet.com/forums/discussions/major-flaw-in-intel-chips-fix-will-slow-them-down/

You need to remove that update if your motherboard uses an AMD processor.

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AMD Computer
by colinito / January 18, 2018 2:20 PM PST
In reply to: AMD computer

Hello again James,

Many thanks for your post.

I used Belarc Advisor and it shows under the heading of Display
AMD Radeon HD 7340 Graphics [Display adapter]
Generic PnP Monitor (15.3"vis)

Under that of Multimedia – it shows –
AMD High Definition Audio Device
Conexant SmartAudio HD
CyberLink WebCam Virtual Driver

Under Bus Adaptors – it shows –
Microsoft Storage Spaces Controller
AMD USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller - 0.96 (Microsoft)
Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller (2x)
Standard OpenHCD USB Host Controller (2x)

Under Software Versions & Usage – it shows –
AMD - External Events Version 6.14.11.1199 (64-bit)
Note – when hovering over it with mouse it shows -
atiesrxx.exe AMD External Events Service Model
Last started 18 Jan 18 (shows time)
(Auto startup currently running)
Size. 255472 bytes
Date modified 21 Oct 15 (shows time)
Type: Windows PE (64 bit) AMD64, en-US

I found no other references to “AMD.”

I found the details included in the link that you gave rather to technical for me to properly understand. I also found the link at

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4072699/january-3-2018-windows-security-updates-and-antivirus-software

a little frightening, as my last big update was on 3rd January 2018!

The detail about the Registry key and the following item – (what are we supposed to do with this – I could probably navigate to it, but what do I do when I get there?)
“ Key="HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE" Subkey="SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\QualityCompat" Value="cadca5fe-87d3-4b96-b7fb-a231484277cc" Type="REG_DWORD”
Data="0x00000000” “

You say that ‘You need to remove it’ but how is that done?

I don’t venture into the registry, it is a bit above my skill level, so might I ask you for an explanation, and if you could phrase it in plain English so that I might understand, please, I would be most grateful?!

Thank you,
Regards,

Colin.

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These are the updates you need to remove
by James Denison / January 18, 2018 9:31 PM PST
In reply to: AMD Computer
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4073707/windows-os-security-update-block-for-some-amd-based-devices


"A small subset of older AMD processors remain blocked to avoid users getting into an unbootable state after installation of recent Windows operating system security updates. Microsoft is working with AMD to resolve this issue and should resume Windows OS security updates to this subset of AMD processors via Windows Update and WSUS by next week. For AMD device-specific information please refer to AMD’s Security Advisory.

Microsoft has temporarily paused sending the following Windows operating system updates to this subset of older AMD processors":


January 3, 2018—KB4056897 (Security-only update)
January 9, 2018—KB4056894 (Monthly Rollup)
January 3, 2018—KB4056888 (OS Build 10586.1356)
January 3, 2018—KB4056892 (OS Build 16299.192)
January 3, 2018—KB4056891 (OS Build 15063.850)
January 3, 2018—KB4056890 (OS Build 14393.2007)
January 3, 2018—KB4056898 (Security-only update)
January 3, 2018—KB4056893 (OS Build 10240.17735)
January 9, 2018—KB4056895 (Monthly Rollup)

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/14238/windows-10-troubleshoot-blue-screen-errors


"Stop error that lets you get to the desktop
If you can get to the desktop, try uninstalling the update that's causing the error. You might need to uninstall more than one update if you don't know which one is causing the error.
In the search box on the taskbar, type View installed updates, and then select View installed updates.
Expand the window to see the installation date, and then select the update that you want to uninstall.
Select Uninstall.
If uninstalling an update fixes the stop error, temporarily block the update from automatically installing again."

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/3073930


To temporarily prevent the driver from being reinstalled until a new driver fix is available, a troubleshooter is available that provides a user interface to hide and show Windows updates and drivers for Windows 10.

The following troubleshooter is available for download from the Microsoft Download Center:
Download the 'Show or hide updates' troubleshooter package now.

Microsoft patches its earlier Meltdown patch for AMD PCs, allowing them to boot
The emergency Windows 10 Meltdown patch was bricking some AMD PCs.

By Brad Chacos
Senior Editor, PCWorld | Jan 18, 2018 10:39 AM PT
"the emergency fix for Meltdown and Spectre brought certain AMD CPUs to their knees. Microsoft has now resumed issuing patches for those systems as of January 18.

Microsoft's new patch, KB4073290, solves the problem, Microsoft says. It will either deploy via Windows Update or can be manually downloaded."
(more at link)
========================================
I wouldn't mess with registry right now, and that was aimed at antivirus vendors, not you and me.
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IN addition
by James Denison / January 18, 2018 9:40 PM PST
In reply to: AMD Computer

After you remove those updates that Microsoft dumped on your AMD computer, you may have to reinstall the video driver files especially, provided by your computer manufacturer's site.

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In Addition
by colinito / January 19, 2018 2:17 AM PST
In reply to: IN addition

Hello James,

Thank you.

I am now deluged with technical instructions, and would ask for your guidance.

In your post of January 18, 2018 9:31 PM PST, it is under the heading of “These are the updates you need to remove” You then name 9 items. If they are to be removed, how do I do that?
Further down your post, you say to check which is causing the error, but I have no idea how to do this ‘checking.’
You also say that if this removal fixes the “Stop Error” - it is going to take some time and trial and error to find out, it doesn’t shut down on me at any set time, the last one (Before I did the System Restore) was 10 hours after the previous one!
You then continue by mentioning downloading a troubleshooter to prevent the driver from being reinstalled. It gets more complicated by the moment!

Then, right at the end of your post, you say “..not to go to the Registry, as that is for anti-virus vendors, not you and me!!” So what do I actually have to try to do?

Your additional post then mentions that after removal of the updates, I may have to reinstall the video driver files - ???!

There then follows a post from ‘bendrajamss,’ (thank you for that) stating that it is definitely a driver issue and I should “roll back the driver update as it will work.”
Sorry for this rather inane question, but with all these technical instructions, I am now really confused!
“What should I do?” (and HOW?!)

Regards

Colin.

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"what should I do?"
by James Denison / January 19, 2018 8:50 AM PST
In reply to: In Addition

You should have someone come over there who can help you with this. I'm leaving on a trip later today and won't be around forum for probably a week. Those articles gave the method to be used. whoever comes over, point them to this thread.

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"what should I do?"
by colinito / January 19, 2018 9:12 AM PST
In reply to: "what should I do?"

Many thanks, James,

I wish you a safe trip.
Since the System Restore yesterday, the 'blue screen devil' has not yet reappeared.
I know of no one here with the technical skill and command of English combined who could assist me! My 'go to tech guy' is great with "OK" but cannot go much further and my Spanish knowledge of technical words is as good as my technical skills!
Unless something drastic happens, I shall await your return.
Thanks for all you have done so far.

Regards

Colin

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Uninstalling Updates
by gaucherre / January 20, 2018 12:20 PM PST
In reply to: In Addition

If you need to uninstall some Windows 10 Updates, here's how to do it:

1. Click on Start and type Update History, and hit the Enter key. A window opens named "View Installed Update History".
2. In the window click on "Uninstall Updates". A new window opens showing a list of all installed updates.
3. Enlarge the window so that you can read all the update numbers. Right-click on a desired update and select "Uninstall".

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Uninstalling Updates
by colinito / January 20, 2018 1:39 PM PST
In reply to: Uninstalling Updates

Hello gaucherre,

Thank you very much for your instruction.

I followed the instruction and arrived at the right place. However, there are no updates listed for either the 3rd of January, as per the list quoted by James Dennison in his post of 19th January –

January 3, 2018—KB4056897 (Security-only update)
January 9, 2018—KB4056894 (Monthly Rollup)
January 3, 2018—KB4056888 (OS Build 10586.1356)
January 3, 2018—KB4056892 (OS Build 16299.192)*
January 3, 2018—KB4056891 (OS Build 15063.850)
January 3, 2018—KB4056890 (OS Build 14393.2007)
January 3, 2018—KB4056898 (Security-only update)
January 3, 2018—KB4056893 (OS Build 10240.17735)
January 9, 2018—KB4056895 (Monthly Rollup)


There are two updates listed for 9th but only one of the numbers correspond with those shown in James’ post - KB4056892.

I went through the instruction to uninstall and having chosen that one, right-clicked and then uninstall - the page was “frozen” and I could not find any instruction to either exit or complete the uninstall. I then pressed the Power Off button, there being no other way to exit.

On restarting, I tried to repeat the procedure. I got as far as the time before and the same frozen page occurred.

I reopened the Word document on which I was typing this report and after a few words, the “Dreaded Blue Screen Shut Down Devil” struck again.

So, I can’t remove the only update that is on the list, the Blue Screen Shut Down still happens and I keep losing my work because of it!

I am writing in an angry mood - not, I hasten to add, directed at you! - and may have a change of heart tomorrow, but at this moment I have in mind to change from this W10. I shall sleep on it and decide. There is no way I am able to continue using the laptop like this. I am not even allowed to control the viewing and choosing of what updates I can install or not, all that is under the control of M/S, I WILL have them installed – wonderful.

Regards,

Colin

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Drastic Solution
by gaucherre / January 20, 2018 8:54 PM PST
In reply to: Uninstalling Updates

1. Get a laptop that works, even if it's Windows 10.
2. Do NOT connect to the internet.
3. Get another computer, a cheap used one if you like, and use that for everything to do with the internet.
4. Your laptop which is NOT connected to the internet is now safe from any updates, or virus or malware. Problem solved.

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Re: back to Windows 7
by Kees_B Forum moderator / January 21, 2018 1:37 AM PST
In reply to: Uninstalling Updates

I do understand you feel like that. But before reinstalling Windows 7 (which deletes everything on your laptop) try refreshing Windows 10, keeping your data and installed applications. If that solves this issue, it's much less work.

If it doesn't, I would even advise to reset Windows 10 before going back to Windows 7. It will redo all Windows updates, but that doesn't mean the same will happen.

If even with a reset Windows 10 the same happens, only then install Windows 7 again, preferably from the recovery media that came with the laptop. If that doesn't solve it, you've proven it's a hardware issue.

Best of luck, and keep us informed!

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Re: back to Windows 7
by colinito / January 21, 2018 2:18 AM PST
In reply to: Re: back to Windows 7

Hello gaucherre and Kees,

The “Drastic Measure” is too drastic for me and has many difficulties and problems attached to following the instruction. Not least of which is “toggling” between the two with the data stored on the laptop no longer accessed to the internet.

Your solution, Kees, sounds a better option. I would need to know how to go about effecting this and where and what to “Back-up” if that would be necessary.

I am not so angry this morning! And as frustrating as this all has become, I search for a way to continue with the laptop! There is a great deal of data which I constantly use and refer to stored on it which I really can’t ‘afford’ to lose!

Regards,

Colin.

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Re: back to Windows 7
by Kees_B Forum moderator / January 21, 2018 6:37 AM PST
In reply to: Re: back to Windows 7

Hello Colin,

If one of my friends here - with your level of computer expertise - would ask me that, I wouldn't even start telling them how to do it, but I would ask them to bring the laptop to me, so I could do it for them.
So, if you happen to visit Amsterdam (Holland) in a few weeks, you're welcome. I wouldn't even mind having a short holiday in Spain, if you pay a return ticket by plane to, say, Barcelona (around 200 euro).

For a backup: that's ALWAYS necessary for thing you don't want to lose. That's what they invented USB-sticks, external hard disks and the cloud for. However, it's not enough to just copy your Documents and Pictures to such a device, because some of your data (like Favorites/Bookmarks and possibly your e-mail and contact list) is in hidden folders you don't normally see and would lose when you needed that backup.
So even for a backup you have to know what you're doing,
Since you told this happens if you use Word at the same time as the internet, and this seems related to using the network, for the short term I'd try to use Word while NOT using the Internet. Then set the autosave-interval in Word to 'every 5 minutes', and you'll never lose more than 5 minutes of work.
A crash when only browsing is annoying, but you lose nothing except a little bit of time.

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Re: back to Windows 7
by colinito / January 21, 2018 10:39 AM PST
In reply to: Re: back to Windows 7

Hello Kees,

Thanks for your reply.

Your offer to fix my laptop is most kind, but a trip to Amsterdam is out of the question at this time. Besides, I would likely get lost, I haven’t been there since 1959! As is flying you to Spain! I thought of sending you my private jet, but it is jammed behind the kitchen scales on the shelf and I can’t reach it at the moment! Barcelona is also not a good location to aim for, you would be about 1040 odd kms out of the way. At present we are in Galicia caring for my wife’s 93 year old mother, which also prevents us travelling together very far! So either La Coruña or Santiago de Compostela would be a better choice! (It would be cheaper too, about €177!)

I travel to the south on my own a few times a year and use a memory USB stick to transfer the data on the laptop to my desktop, which incidentally is using W7.

Your mention of some data being in ‘hidden files’ is concerning. I wasn’t aware of that, I shall not be doing any major backing up on my own now, that’s for sure!

I have now set my Word to Auto save at a 3 minute interval. This is not just because I can, but as I explained before, as I cannot ‘touch-type’ I can correct errors like hitting the Upper Case button when hitting the “a” AND FINDING A WHOLE STRING OF UPPER CASE WORDS IN FRONT OF ME when I look up at the screen, and a big crash again will ensure that at least some of my work will be saved!

As I use Word to actually write anything I am going to copy and paste and send like email replies or other data, I would find it difficult to use Word whilst not connected to the Internet. So I shall have to try to continue.

As a point of Interest, I have had a fairly long Update today. Entitled Quality Update 10. KB5056892 – this is the very one that I tried to remove and failed, then had the big blue screen job again! Maybe I did remove the update when I forced the laptop to shut down. Whatever happened, I don’t think it would have been installed if it was still there. I am not sure, but I couldn’t find any indication of updates that had been removed.

Regards,

Colin.

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Ummm..
by Flatworm / January 22, 2018 5:49 AM PST
In reply to: Re: blue screen

nVidia drivers aren't going to work too well with an AMD Radeon graphics card.

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Answer
may be because of driver update
by bendrajamss / January 18, 2018 10:32 PM PST

yes definitely this is is the issue of driver, you should rollback the driver update,
it will work

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