Dozens of bodies discovered in two Iraq locations

... are meaningless. They are not the Iraqis. Ex-patriots are not protesting BTW. I've seen poll numbers that are opposite to yours. Like November 2004, the Iraqis had the only poll that mattered when they came in droves to VOTE and thank the US for freeing them to be able to do so.

large nombers of people arround the world that oppose this invasion. I am not sure why you think the vote was an endorsement of the U.S. occupation if Iraq. Calling and holding a vote in a country can be done any time. The vote went peacefully so that showed that the insurgents were good to thier word.
Ex-patriots aren't protesting but they are for the most part not there and they are a tiny handful of Iraqis.
A Zogby poll done in January 2005 found that 82 percent of Sunni Arabs and 69 percent of Shiites favor US withdrawal either immediately or after an elected government is in place. I'd be surprised if that has changed much.

... is irrelevant to how Iraqi's feel. Ex-pats may be relatively small in number, but they are the only "global voices" that matter.

Your poll shows nothing about how they feel about the US there NOW. Notice that they seem to like having us around for a while longer, as they favor withdrawal either immediately OR AFTER AN ELECTED GOVERNMENT IS IN PLACE. Separating out the numbers between these two very different criteria would be more helpful. IAC, favoring withdrawal in the future does not mean they didn't favor our coming to free them in the first place!

After the war: Iraqis face new lives

Let me describe our situation before the fall of the previous regime. We were like a sick, weak prisoner under the thumb of a cruel jailer.

Saad
Saad: Iraqis "are breathing the air of freedom"
Then, suddenly and without warning, the gates of our prison were flung open. We were told: "Come on, you are free!"

The previous regime used to tell us what to read, what to watch and what to listen to.

There were no newspapers except the regime's and the Baghdad and Shabab youth radio stations. Even then, Shahab was owned by Uday, Saddam's eldest son.

If you tuned into these two stations, you would hear all about the president's audiences and activities.

On television we had, once again, the Iraq and Shabab stations. And again, the latter used to air the president's sayings and had a very entertaining programme called "Poems about the love of the leader"!


The previous regime used to tell us what to say, what work we could do
The previous regime used to tell us what to say and what work we could do. It would decide how much we earned. Indeed, we did not even get salaries but "gifts" from the president.

Please note that the "gift" my sister - a doctor and a specialist - used to get would amount to only $8 per month.

Then the moment of salvation came. Perhaps I shouldn't use the phrase "moment of salvation", for to do so implies we were expecting such a moment when in truth we were feeling hopeless.

Call it what you will, it happened and it was a magnificent thing.

Iraqis are feeling better. They are breathing the air of freedom. They read, watch and say what they want.

They travel, work and receive a living wage. They use mobile phones, satellite dishes and the internet, which they did not even know before.

The negative side, which is transient, is that some here are trying to force others to accept their way and even using force to achieve that.

As for terrorism, we are now beginning to unite against it and to defeat it.

I say to you: Wait two or three years and you will be pleasantly surprised.

Many more at the link.

the only voices that matter, Evie. The entire world is affected by an intervention this dramatic and unilateral. None of the Arab nations supported the attack. Turkey's pop. almost erupted in opposition to it, so much so that the U.S. could not stage the 4th armored from Turkey. The U.S. can not go it alone. It does not have the manpower nor does it choose to raise the manpower necessary for such an occupation. It needs and needed the world to come on board for this and it did not have that support, unlike in Afghanistan Bosnia and Somalia for example.
---either immediately OR AFTER AN ELECTED GOVERNMENT IS IN PLACE.----
is hardly an endorsement of the U.S. occupation. Note "immediately" is there alongside the "After...."
----favoring withdrawal in the future does not mean they didn't favor our coming to free them in the first place!----
Well no one was asking the U.S. to come and free the Iraqis, although everyone agreed it would be a nice thing. There was no crisis, no emergency. The same goes for Zimbabwe.The problem is that any good will generated by the U.S. was squandered by the U.S. almost immediately after the invasion. If the U.S. had done it better, not right even, just better, there would have been more of a chance at a peaceful resolution to the occupation.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4395525.stm
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001968744_gao30.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A809-2004Nov20.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58183-2004Sep28.html
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/comment/0,12956,1457651,00.html
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/apr2005/nf20050418_5596.htm
http://www.costofwar.com/

... would differentiate between "immediately" and "after" -- they are two entirely different things. The only ones that want immediate withdrawal are so-called insurgents and the few remaining Ba'athists that think they can wait out our presence there and return to power when we're gone.

Many Arab governments were with us behind the scenes. Even Colin Powell, the left's favorite champion, acknowledged so, and Tommy Franks can educate you as to behind the scenes talks that went on. The dictatorships all opposed the action on principle because of what is going on over there now -- elections, women voting, etc. (the Lebanese held some pretty impressive demonstrations recently) -- would mean the end of their power. They also fear the militants in their midst (Saudis got sent a message early on). Egypt was worried that Iraq WOULD unleash WMD (yeah, that's right, they were among the EVERYONE that thought he had them) and it would effect them. Point being outward Arab support has to be taken with a grain of salt.

There was no crisis in Bosnia. No crisis in Kosovo. No crisis in Sudan (moreso and for far longer, but heck, the UN Security council can't even agree on using the term Genocide so twiddle away we continue to go while millions starve or worse ), no crisis in Zimbabwe (where are the Europeans here cleaning up the mess THEY made?), no crisis in ..... I agree, we can't fix everything. Iraq presented a threat (grave threat according to Kennedy, Kerry, Biden, Clinton, Gore, ... Democrats all!) to OUR national security.

and as to what you think i really dont care.

and the scum in that prison should have done to them whatever it takes.

If you actually knew anything about the resistance you would know that they are not all the same people with the same goals and objectives. Iraqis are entitled to resist a foreign invasion just as much as you would be if your country were invaded. I certainly would not call you a terrorist if you fought against foreign troops in your country.
I'm sorry if you don't like the term "foreign invasion" but that's how those people in that region see it.

Sorry, that don't fly.

If you are referring to the incident I think you are, that was Sunni on Shia violence. Besides Evie, you're only talking about one incident. There have beeen thousands of attacks against Coalition forces.
One example does not prove the nature of the insurgency or the violence in Iraq. There's much more to it than a couple of incidents.

ongoing violence and chaos. Then there is the emerging civil war.

of course there is but less and less each day.

to bad your country turned there back on helpless people.
but the coilition didnt cant wont.

people. We turned our back on a trumped up bogus charge of WMD.
Speaking of helpless people mark, how many innocent Iraqis have been killed wounded or maimed by the Coalition? As far as killed goes,the low estimate is 8,000, the high estimate is 150,000. Where would you put the figure?

the last time you came up with a number was 100,000

we all know whos killing the inocents and its not the coilition, how about insurgants there not the coilition.

as we try to limit inocents death.

we dont blow up a car in a market.

go talk to the insurgants you seem so concerned for them

the low number might be 8,000. What they really think is that it is more likely 100,000.
We don't blow cars up in markets, Mark. But do we have to when we are using cluster bombs and droping 1 and 2000 lb. bombs on civilian areas?
Concerned for the insurgents? More like concerned that you don't seem t think they are entitled to nationalist pride the same way you and I are. You and I both know we would take up arms against a foreign invader. Esp. one that we already detested.

and seems to me they want us there but you go on and beat this dead horse i for one can see your a naysayer so be happy we all can laugh at naysayers some more in the near future.

i wont waste my time anymore

You can't be precise with them Mark they have a spread range of about 100 meters. Plus they leave a toxic trail behind them. It takes a lot to clean them up. Not to mention the fact that about %10-20 don't even go off, but lay around until someone bumps into one and goes off.
As I said I don't know which sources you find acceptable so here is a broad sample:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3340546/
http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engmde140652003
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-12-10-cluster-bomb-cover_x.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/graphics/world/gcluster/flash.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2946054.stm
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/090500-02.htm
http://www.tierramerica.net/2003/0414/iarticulo.shtml

is not unusual for resistance or insurgence movements.

Dan

you are just as them.
eat your crow and have the enemy grow stronger

insurgent because I say there is more to the violence in Iraq then you believe. Sorry Mark , you're going to have to explain that one to me.

to them but luckly your voice is being heard less and less.

seems the iraqis want freedom not the kind that saddam gave

They also want freedom from an illegal occpation by a country they hate that has killed and wounded and poisoned thousands upon thousands of them.

you need to get a new soapbox as your rants stale
and as ocupying iraq we removed a dictator i guess you find that wrong