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Double standard?

by Evie / April 21, 2006 6:18 AM PDT
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Of course,
by duckman / April 21, 2006 6:20 AM PDT
In reply to: Double standard?

we still have to see the evidence , but so far this is looking REAL bad for the DA. Looks a little to political now

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I think what both judges are trying to do is
by Diana Forum moderator / April 21, 2006 6:22 AM PDT
In reply to: Double standard?

to make the bond high enough to hurt if they skipped.

$50,000 to the Duke players may be petty cash where to the other kids, it would be as out of reach as $400,000.

Diana

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Yes, but ...
by Evie / April 21, 2006 6:31 AM PDT

... it should also be commensurate with the nature of the crime, threat to society and incentive to flee. The 400K bail is outrageous IMO. It's not really saying all that much that the kids are from well to do homes. The parents are likely strained to hire counsel for their kids. Maybe they have other kids in college, they are likely paying tuition out of pocket, exhorbitant taxes on those homes that likely appreciated to their million plus value (rather than them buying them), etc. This class warfare angle stinks to high heaven.

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Change the system?
by James Denison / April 22, 2006 6:37 AM PDT
In reply to: Yes, but ...

Maybe we should go to a standard of jail waiting for trial or released on own recognizance if flight risk is minimal. Cut out the bailbondsmen, and the corruption bail money is causing in the judicial system too. Take the money out of the equation and get back to reliance on justice alone instead. Of course no one has to make bail, they can sit in jail instead. I wonder how long though we'd see so many instances of bail demanded if everyone just decided to sit in jail and make the local goverment pay for it instead. Do away with bail system and we will take a big step toward cleaning up the judicial system.

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"cooruption bail money is causing"
by grimgraphix / April 23, 2006 11:02 AM PDT
In reply to: Change the system?

"the corruption bail money is causing in the judicial system"

New one on me... what are you talking about?

Are you saying that not giving bail would be a societal equalizer? I could see that but a lot of wealthy criminals would be awfully pissed not omitting all the truly innocent.

Bail system may enable the rich to sleep at home and force the poor to sit nights in jail but I'm not sure what your bringing up here.

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when discussing bail ammounts
by grimgraphix / April 21, 2006 2:37 PM PDT
In reply to: Double standard?

consider that neither the alleged rapists nor the alleged gang members are paying their own bail... It is more likely that they all hire bail bondsmen to post the bail for a percentage fee all secured by collateral. The collateral for the one kid is his parents house. Would it be unreasonable to set bail for the Duke students at the value of their parents house?

With Duke tuition costs published at Tuition and fees: $32,410 - Room/board: $8,830 per school year... is a $400,000.00 bail so much a class issue or a reasonable securement against flight? It isn't like other rich boys haven't fled the country for years at a time to avoid trial. Aside from all that... should these boys be innocent the $400,000.00 will be returned minus the bail fee if any.

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Flight risk is overestimated in this case
by Evie / April 21, 2006 9:56 PM PDT

They are being described as kids of privilege with rich ("deep pockets") parents. There's a lot of envy and "they can afford it" there.

What's the bond fee on $400K run anyway?

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Bond fee, Evie...
by J. Vega / April 22, 2006 4:14 AM PDT

Evie, the bail bond company usually charges 10%. If one of those kids wasn't even there and eventually is exonerated, it will still end up costing him $40,000.

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That's what I was thinking ...
by Evie / April 22, 2006 4:26 AM PDT
In reply to: Bond fee, Evie...

... but what's $40K to a bunch of rich white people, huh?

Evie Happy

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Ouch! Perhaps it's not so sweetly reasonable after all if
by Kiddpeat / April 22, 2006 8:19 AM PDT
In reply to: Bond fee, Evie...

the evidence is also pretty weak.

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So basically ...
by Evie / April 22, 2006 10:43 AM PDT

... possible sexual assault -- whether guilty or not -- bail fee is almost as much as bail for someone that possibly killed someone in a gang-related shooting.

Sigh

Evie Happy

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are you saying...
by grimgraphix / April 23, 2006 10:49 AM PDT
In reply to: So basically ...

that sexual assault cases should have a lesser bail amount or a greater, when it comes to rape versus murder?

3 states in the U.S. qualify certain cases of rape as being eligible for the death penalty. That means that some folk out there take rape very seriously. I'm not sure what the issue being discussed here is - bail amounts, severity of the crime, whether the Duke students are being unfairly treated because they are Duke students, because they are white, or because their parents may or may not be wealthy... are we losing sight here over the fact that a girl may have been raped?

It seems to me that the best thing is to sit back and consider that maybe... just maybe... the police and the legal system... given enough time, may get the investigation and prosecution right? Do you have so little faith in our government?

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Yup! Especially when they are politically motivated as they
by Kiddpeat / April 23, 2006 1:34 PM PDT
In reply to: are you saying...

are in this case.

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Whenever I see such a case as this ...
by grimgraphix / April 23, 2006 3:21 PM PDT

I'm sad to say I question whether the prosecutor is seeking headlines for themselves, especially during an election year. I admit this.

But I've seen questions of race, class, wealth, and even liberal guilt as an explanation of why these boys are being charged, detained and consequently being held accountable for posting bail. I am not saying they are guilty but what if they are? I assume that every other alleged perpetrator is treated the same way when under investigation of such charges. If this is not true then lets discuss this. But to say these kids are being mistreated under our judicial system should be an accusation brought against every investigation... not just this one.

In short, if these kids are being treated more harshly than others under the same suspicion and in the same jurisdiction then bring that to light. Otherwise, I have to assume that many are arguing for special consideration of these kids because they are white, wealthy and upper class.

I've read the articles posted and do question if the prosecutor isn't a bit self serving here (like so many others). Trying to blame this on a liberal agenda is a bit far fetched though.

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(NT) (NT) It is being questioned and 'brought to light'.
by Kiddpeat / April 23, 2006 3:38 PM PDT
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The questions I see.
by grimgraphix / April 23, 2006 3:46 PM PDT

It's the verifiable facts that I'm missing. That is what I meant when I said "bring it to light".

As I said... show me that these kids are being treated more harshly then someone else of the same social status under the same suspicions of rape and kidnap.

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(NT) (NT) Already been done. Go back and read it again.
by Kiddpeat / April 23, 2006 3:50 PM PDT
In reply to: The questions I see.
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The point is not "of the same social status" ...
by Evie / April 24, 2006 11:07 PM PDT
In reply to: The questions I see.

... it's that justice should treat them the same regardless of social status. Almost from day one this case has been framed as white jerks of privelege vs. poor black Mom who has to strip to feed her babies .

Obviously they have to report on an accusation. But then the rest should have been kept mum. It was the DA that first threw fuel on the fire by bowing to the "civil rights" activists demanding action. I've heard black commentators saying how if it had been reversed, the blacks would have been arrested on the spot. Really? Who? Every black member on a sports team? The house was EMPTY when the 911 call came in (claiming racial slurs, no mention of a rape). Yeah right! Those same "civil rights" activists would be screaming to high heaven about a presumption of guilt had the black members of a team been screened all for DNA samples and you know it! If true about the lineup, the screams would be deafening! And you know that too!

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Let's face it ...
by Evie / April 23, 2006 10:46 PM PDT

... if there wasn't a racial/political angle to this, the boys wouldn't be charged -- YET. Convenient how the rest of the DNA is now said to not come back until after the primary.

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Actually ...
by Evie / April 23, 2006 10:44 PM PDT
In reply to: are you saying...

... yes. As serious a crime as rape is, it is not murder.

Certain cases of rape, yes. This one, even if true? Doubtful.

They may get it right. My fear is actually for a scenario where the boys are guilty but are acquitted because of all the mistakes made by the DA to date

All of this is irrelevant to the amount of bail set. I don't see where the risk of flight is that great. Do they even HAVE passports?

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Bond fee
by James Denison / April 22, 2006 6:42 AM PDT

It used to be 10% back in the 70's but don't know what it is now. One of my best friends in Tampa, his father was a bondsman.

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Great idea
by James Denison / April 22, 2006 6:41 AM PDT

You may be onto something there. If we just let them all flee the country, soon the crime problem will be solved, or we'll have less of it. Why should we care if it's not our problem anymore? If they aren't here, problem solved for "society". After all, isn't that what today's justice is for, to prosecute people for the good of "society" to make them pay their debt to "society"? That's the way I always hear it from them.

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lawyers say timeline is solidified for client
by caktus / April 22, 2006 12:41 AM PDT
In reply to: Double standard?

Duke lacrosse defense lawyers say timeline is solidified for client
BY AMES ALEXANDER
Charlotte Observer

Defense lawyers say they've pieced together more of a timeline that they contend supports the innocence of a Duke lacrosse player charged with raping an exotic dancer at an off-campus party.
more...

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Defense is now contending ...
by Evie / April 22, 2006 1:02 AM PDT

... that the photo lineup from which the accuser picked the two was improper, containing only Duke LAX players. Why not do a real lineup? Or it seems like /Lineups 101 to have some other faces included! If this is true, it's yet another bizarre twist in this case.

Evie Happy

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(NT) (NT) Sounds like someone's grabbing at straws.
by caktus / April 22, 2006 2:15 AM PDT
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Class Envy
by James Denison / April 22, 2006 6:16 AM PDT
In reply to: Double standard?

I've been watching this as I can and what I see is a decension into class envy and a mix of reverse racism and liberal psuedo-guilt-ridden political correctness. Yeah, a double hyphen, but that's only necessary because it's getting harder to properly describe the depths of liberal depravity today without using such.

Did they rape her? I don't know, because no one else knows for sure it seems, other than maybe the "victim". If they did then they can be tried the same as if some black men had raped her instead, because to do different would be racist wouldn't it? I think all liberals can agree a trial and sentence if they are guilty should be the same which would be given to a "bro" who might have done the same to her.

Last I read the only thing that's confirmed is she was at the party, and then later passed out drunk in a car at some store's parking lot. Anything I've missed?

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Yes and no, Evie, though I'm surprised the second
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / April 23, 2006 12:44 PM PDT
In reply to: Double standard?

bond is quite that low. The AMOUNT of bonds (also called bail) is generally set based on three major factors -- the severity of the crime, the criminal record of the accused, and the net worth of the accused. The amount of the bond goes up with each of those factors, but the last is often the most important. Why? The idea behind bond is that forfeiture would have to represent a major financial hardship for those posting, to give the accused a strong incentive to show up for trial. While I may be a bit surprised that the second bond is so low (usually murder is at least 100k), I'm also surprised that the Duke boys' bonds aren't even higher, as unless their families are living well above their means, I doubt losing 400k would be nearly as big a blow to them as losing 50k would be for the second family. So proportionally, it's not really a double standard -- it's applying the same standard to kids from quite different financial backgrounds.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Question, Dave...
by J. Vega / April 23, 2006 1:06 PM PDT

I have a question, Dave, relating to your bringing up the net worth of the accuser. Senario time again: Let's pretend that I was standing on the street corner talking to Bill Gates, said something nasty about Microsoft, and he in anger punched me in the mouth. Let's say a cop was also on the corner, witnessed it, and arrested Gates when I told him that I wanted to press charges. Needless to say, he would be before a judge in a trice and bail would be set. Dave, should his bail be set at something like a billion dollars, considering his net worth?

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Did he try to rape you J?
by grimgraphix / April 23, 2006 3:27 PM PDT
In reply to: Question, Dave...

did he try to murder you? If so than maybe a billion dollars may be reasonable.

In these scenarios, why not try to make the crime fit the punishment shall we? Wink

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Didn't understand the question did you? Also, still leaping
by Kiddpeat / April 23, 2006 3:49 PM PDT

to the defense of any questioning of the left's point of view.

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