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General discussion

Dont see how Mac's are cheaper than PC's

Jul 18, 2006 11:42PM PDT

I have been seriously thinking about getting a Mac lately, because I really like its operating system and its supposed to have better hardware. But before, I was hesitant to do that, since you couldn't run as much software on it as you could on Windows PCs. However, now that they released Macs with OS X on Intel processors, I could just use boot camp to install a Windows partition on the Mac as well. But when I checked the Apple website, I checked the prices for their laptops, and they are all so expensive. Many people say that Macs are much cheaper in comparison to pc's, but I don't see how that's true. I was mainly looking for a Pentium Core Duo processor at 2.0 ghz, around 100 gb HD, 2 GB RAM, and DVD RW among other specifications. Are there any other sellers or any places where I can find Mac's that are cheaper?

Discussion is locked

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emacs do work
Aug 7, 2006 1:49AM PDT

Thought I would drop my 2 cents worth. The way she has her emac speced out, it is more then adequate to run Final Cut Express 2. I guess it would depend on what program she is running she first called it Final Cut Express 2 then Final Cut Pro, there is a big difference.

I used to run a media education department and we ran 5 similarly speced emacs, with Final Cut Express 2, Photoshop CS and Intuos 2 tablets. 250 Lacie firewire drives. During the summers those emacs would run for at least 10 hours a day, and my students would be using them non stop. Never had a failure, crash etc. My only problem was when I failed to format one of the hardrives and even though media could be saved and seen it could not be recovered or opened.

From what Maria is saying I am guessing she has 3 problems.

1.) She is running out of hardrive space. If her finished project is 2 1/2 hours long and under ideal conditions of 1 min = 3 min raw. That still works out to about 7 1/2 hours of raw footage that works about 97 gig of hard drive space. her drive is only 80 gig.
2.) It sounds like the second problem she maybe facing is that she is trying to open up FCE in iDVD. FCE is not iMovie. If I remeber correctly you need to export out from FCE then bring it back into iDVD.
3.) Use the external. Who ever told you not to use the external does not know what they are talking about. Unless the firewire drive is a 5400 rpm. If its a 7200 rpm there should be no problems.

IMHO one of the main reasons people should look at macs is if you are serious about creating movies. Final Cut Express makes a great training tool for the price and if you master FCE, then making a jump to Final Cut Pro is easy. Pinnacle may have a simpler workflow but it is not considered as even a "semi-pro" program. You want to make movies mac is the most cost effective computer.

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My reply to j_vencer
Aug 7, 2006 10:05AM PDT

Hi J, thank you for your answer to my problem with my emac. I'm tired of going to the apple store with my 50 pounds of emac and not really getting anywhere other than you need to buy a new computer cause that's all I hear from them. Now let me tell you I am using final cut express 2 and when I finish my project I sent it to my desktop so that I can drag it into idvd so that I can burn it. The first problem is making the right file so that I can drag it into idvd and have it burn for me. What happens is I get "its the wrong file type and it can't work for me that way" I brought quick time pro just so that I wont have the problems with making the files I need to burn my projects but it didn't help me. So you see I need someone to tell me the right way to sent my file to my desktop so that I can burn it without losing my project. Can you help me? Thanks Maria

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Did you do it this way?
Aug 7, 2006 11:08AM PDT

Preparing your Final Cut Express or Final Cut Pro movie to work with iDVD
You can use movies from Final Cut Express and Final Cut Pro in iDVD.

In Final Cut Express, select your sequence and then choose File > Export > QuickTime Movie. If you've added chapter markers to your sequence, choose Chapter Markers from the Markers pop-up menu, then click Save. It's not necessary to make the movie self-contained.

To add a Final Cut Pro movie to your iDVD project, you export it as a QuickTime movie. Any movie in QuickTime format can be added to an iDVD project, but for best results, export the movie as a DV (digital video) file, as described below.

To export a Final Cut Pro movie as a digital video (DV) file:
In Final Cut Pro, choose File > Export > QuickTime Movie.
In the Export window, choose the NTSC or PAL DV format you want to use from the Settings pop-up menu. If you are using Final Cut Pro version 1.2.5 or later, make sure the Make Movie Self-Contained checkbox is not selected. (This will make the export process much faster.)
Click Save. A QuickTime file that references your Final Cut Pro movie is created on your hard disk. This is the file you will add to your iDVD project.
To export a movie with chapter markers, you must use Final Cut Pro 3.0.2 or later.

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A reply for mrmacfixit:
Aug 8, 2006 12:13AM PDT

I only have final cut express 2 will it still work the same way for me? And thanks for your reply. And why am I having so much bad luck with making files to put on my desktop? The other thing that is happening to me is I'm losing video clips on my timeline. What am I doing wrong now. I haven't been using my emac cause I lost my big project that took me a long time to do. To answer your question as for what I did I will have to go downstairs and start working on my emac again so that I can go thru my steps so that I can tell you what I did wrong. Maybe I'll do it later. I'm not happy with pinnacle either they have to many bugs in there software and my last project took a long time burn cause it kept hanging up on me in rendering and I had to keep doing over and over again.

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One step at a time
Aug 8, 2006 8:13AM PDT

When you have finished working on your project in FCE or FCP, surely you save it to a file that FCE or FCP can open and allow you to continue editing, if necessary.
Only when it has been saved in that manner, should you even consider exporting it out for use with iDVD.

The information I gave you came from the Help file of FCE version 2.0.3 and should definately work with your version. Note that FCP and FCE use the same functions to get a DV project into iDVD.

Did you ever do any editing in iMovieHD?

P

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One step at a time, reply
Aug 8, 2006 10:56AM PDT

Yes I have edited with imovie, but I wanted to move up to final cut because it was sold to me when I bought the emac. I know that there is a big learning curve with final cut so that when I want to learn final cut pro it wont be so hard for me to learn. And don't get me wrong I have finish some stuff with fcx and burned it using idvd I just don't understand why I had a problem the last time I used it. I still didn't get back to trying to use the emac. Maybe later. But thanks for your help, Maria

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Cheaper Macs
Jul 27, 2006 7:44PM PDT

I have been doing a lot of comparison shopping for all sorts of products over the years. Since I live in England and find it extremely expensive (and so does everyone else here!)to buy anything here, when I wanted to buy a Mac I did shop around a lot. One thing I discovered was that no matter where I looked, the prices were almost the same, all things considered. Whether that is a result of price fixing I am not in a position to say; however, I still bought my first Mac (in England!)over a year ago and much more recently bought a MacBook to replace my aging Compaq. I have used Boot Camp to load Windows and it works perfectly, each in it own operating system. To say that it works 'perfectly' in Windows, especially, may be stretching the truth quite a bit.

Macs seem expensive; however, don't forget the age old expresssion: 'You get what you pay for.' I certainly have no regrets at having spent more to have a Mac; in fact, it was money well spent and for me, a very satisfactory decision.

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(NT) Reply to 'Don't see how Macs are cheaper than PC's'
Jul 28, 2006 1:54AM PDT

I've been a Mac user since 1979! As for your question, may I point out that most of today's Mac's come standard with 512MB of RAM? Most PC's do not and it's an upcharge. Also, considering what's PRE-LOADED in a Mac---- iLife, iPhoto, iTunes, Garage Band, and numerous other STANDARD software applications, it makes a Mac cheaper than a PC. Most PC's would require you buying these software programs as an upgrade. It's not just about the Intel processors, it's about how much you get right out of the box.
-Greg

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since 1979? Preposterous!
Jul 28, 2006 8:34AM PDT

Your statments would carry more weight if you didn't start out with a blatent lie.
You claim that you have been a mac user since 1979? The Apple Macintosh was originally released on January 24, 1984, so I can't imagine how you were using a mac five years before they were released.
How would I remember the exact date? It was my 18th birthday, and at the time I was a rampant Apple II fanatic.

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Now there is a word I really like
Jul 28, 2006 9:19AM PDT

Preposterous!

Doesn't it just sum up all BS we see in this thread. It just rolls off the tongue and succinctly sums up some of the posts.

I also like:

Atrocious, used to describe the state of Windows security.
and
Sinecure, used to describe my job(Part Time)as a Mac network administrator/Tech

Wonderful!

P

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reply to 'since 1979? Preposterous!
Apr 20, 2007 1:24PM PDT

Hey! I'm not a liar! Simply an oversight in choice of words and names of models. I meant to say an APPLE user since 1979. Mac was used as force of habit. I tend to call all Apples 'Macs.'
Sorry that I upset you. Jerk! And yes I HAVE BEEN AN APPLE USER SINCE THAT TIME!!!!!

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I don't think so
Jul 29, 2006 2:19PM PDT

Interesting post, excepting for a couple of points. The MAC did not exist until 1984, Apples did, but not MACs. Yes some software is included, but I believe there is no, full featured Word Processor, nor Presentation Graphics Application included. Any Desktop publishing application is big bucks for both PCs and MACs. Check out the pricing on Adobe and Macromedia products. P.S. iTunes is also free for PCs.

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Do you take CD burning for granted?
Jul 28, 2006 3:21AM PDT

On of the other things I love about macs is that they just come with built in CD burning. I was called up the other day by a mom I know who needed to transfer a powerpoint presentation from her PC to an old laptop. She couldn't figure out how to burn a CD on the machine...and neither could I! Apparently, it didn't have the software to do the trick. I admit, it could have been my own inexperience or stupidity why I didn't find it, but I'm fairly confident it wasn't. Anyway, I used a USB drive to copy the file onto my mac, burned the CD she wanted (and I ended up giving her three of them -- it took just about a minute to burn each one), then copied that onto the old dinosaur laptop she was using (which of course, had no USB ports). In the end, I was credited with saving the day, and left $50 richer, all because I had a mac. They just work. I love it.

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That must have been a very small file
Aug 8, 2006 3:08PM PDT

This last year i had to make a slide show of all the sports pictures throughout the year for a school sports banquet. Our yearbook staff uses horribly slow eMacs with Adobe CS2. So i had to get 10 GB of photos from a Mac to my laptop so i could work on it at home. My 200GB external hard drive is in NTFS, so the Mac wouldn't recognize it, so i had to bring in my external dvd, it was either that or burn all the pics to cds. So i insert a blank dvd and open up the dvd folder and select the pics to copy on to the first dvd. The Mac then makes a "copy" on the dvd, meaning it puts the icons in the folder but nothing is burned to a cd. That takes at least 15-20 minutes. Then i do the stupid ctrl+click to get the right-click menu and hit burn it. The Mac then spends another 10 minutes preparing to burn, then it finally burns. But, oh no, it isn't done yet. It takes yet another 15 minutes to verify what it just burned. Now, on a PC, all i would have to do is drag and drop the files i wanted to the dvd folder and hit burn, with the built-in Windows burn utility. In 15 minutes i have a finished dvd with pictures. I ask all of you Mac fanatics who think they know everything and their OS is so much better, why the hell is that so long and complex?

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Questions regarding yours
Aug 8, 2006 9:57PM PDT

Was the external DVD burner a USB 1.0, USB 2.0 or Firewire (IEEE394)?
From your tone, I would guess that you are a PC user and that probably, all your peripherals, use the USB 2.0 interface.

Also, given your statement that the yearbook staff uses "horribly slow eMacs" then I will take a guess that the eMac was equipped with USB 1.0 ports. This would give you a transfer rate, if you were lucky, of either 1.5 or 12 Mbit/s, not the sort of speed that would be entirely suitable for the task in hand. 10GB would take forever!

If you were using an external DVD burner with an IEEE1394 interface, and it took as long to do the job as you describe, then I agree there is a problem with that machine. I get the impression though that your burner was USB. If this is the case, then that is the problem. Not the machine or Apple, but with your choice of peripheral.

Of course, I could be mistaken, you may have used Firewire.

P

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External HD
Aug 8, 2006 11:27PM PDT

Peter, Is it not true that if he entertained sharing files with his pee cee and the Mac, he could reformat the external HD from NTFS to FAT32? He couldnt do read and write but at least read the files on ext. HD?
He could then drag and drop to the mac if he wanted to modify JPG's?

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Strange question, but
Aug 9, 2006 4:29AM PDT

the device in question was an external DVD burner and the plan was not to share the pictures, but to take them away to produce a presentation with them. That work was going to be done on a PC.

Formatting an NTFS drive to FAT32 would have enabled the Mac to read and write to it, as well as the PC, but this method is really not worth messing with.
The possibility of losing the existing data on the drive would probably far outweigh the, one off, advantage writing to a drive.

P

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Both USB 2.0 and Firewire
Oct 29, 2006 7:51AM PST

My dvd burner is both USB and firewire. What took so long was the Mac, the way it burned to the disc. First it made a copy into the blank dvd folder which took 15 minutes then it actually burned it. which took 15 minutes cause the burner is only 4x. then it took another 15 to double check everything. Windows doesn't require that first 15 extra minutes to create a pointless duplicate. Windows is also much faster at verifying.

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Who Said They're Cheaper?
Jul 28, 2006 10:16AM PDT

This is my first time posting here, so "hello" to everyone.
I've been using Macs for nearly 10 years and based on ticket price alone, I've never known Macs to be cheaper; they've always been considered a higher-end item and their prices reflect this. Mind you, I used my PowerBook G3 for more than seven of those 10 years before it died; it wasn't without problems, but repair was a lot cheaper than buying a new machine, and that's taking into consideration that my Apple was one of the rare ''lemons''; I know users who've been running their Macs for even longer with few-to-no problems, and basically THAT'S why Macs are cheaper. And unless you can find a vendor that's selling a floor model (I've seen this done at CompUSA), you can forget about finding a deal on a new Mac--the prices are pretty much the same everywhere, as are the price reductions (the service at PowerMax is exemplary, though, and you'll save sales tax on your purchase).
Unless you're a power user, your Mac will be able to run OS/software upgrades for a REALLY long time, and even that's not written in stone because I know of studio engineers who still prefer to run OS 9 and software developers who ran their pre-Power PC machines up to at least OS 8.6 because they're built so well. It all depends on your needs.
After extensive research 10+ years ago, I bought a PowerBook, a manual or two (my favorites these days are The Missing Manual series), and picked my friends' brains until the intuition kicked in. It was that easy, and it will be for you, too; Macs are incredibly uncomplicated and lacking in temperament compared to PC's.
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but this is the first generation of Mac/Intel technology--I realize you want to run Windows programs, but I personally would wait a few upgrades down the road to invest in a MacBook Pro and would purchase a refurbished high-end PowerBook direct from Apple instead (which will also save you some bucks). For the time being, I recommend subscribing to Versiontracker.com for OS X for research purposes. Not only will you get a feel for what kinds of cool apps (many free or very reasonably priced shareware) are available for the Mac platform, but the daily e-mails include updates from MacFixIt.com as well--these are extremely useful because they alert owners to hardware and software problems (often with solutions or fixes) and provide a forum for discussing them. There have been issues with some of the new machines, the MacBook Pros in particular. It's good to know what to expect.

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Mac prices
Jul 28, 2006 12:42PM PDT

To set the record straight - as I understand it - Mac prices don't vary at all in the retail marketplace. That's because Apple would withdraw the retailer's franchise if they lowered their price even a little bit. What the seller can do, however, is to sweeten the deal by including software, more hardware, memory, etc at little or no extra cost

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About you wanting a mac computer
Jul 30, 2006 3:19PM PDT

I was looking to buy a mac computer again and I was told to go to ebay to see how much I could sell my old mac computer for and I couldn't believe how many people were selling the same computer and how little they were asking for it. Its like buying a brand new car and then wanting to sell it back for some reason, you lose so much money that its not funny so I decided to keep what I have for another year or two or I'll just wait until it doesn't work any more before I buy a new mac. Just because of how much they cost and how little value they have after you buy them. So think care fully before you buy one.

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Exactly the same applies
Jul 30, 2006 10:38PM PDT

to a Windows PC.

Almost all consumer electronics are not worth very much at all after a couple of years.

Technology moves so fast that this years hot item is next years junker.

It is not just Macs that it happens to


P

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Vintage Mac Machines
Jul 30, 2006 11:02PM PDT

I recently purchased a Powerbook G3 and new to Mac.
The first thing I noticed is how well made it was and how well it performed with a 333 mhz processor on broadband cable..indeed very impressive compared to a pc loaded with bloatware. Quality does matter. My current pc is a vaio (sony) PCV RX 280DS digital studio it is also well made but in the pc world there are many "throw away" pc's...

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Here is my answer:
Aug 7, 2006 9:39AM PDT

NO, you can't find them any cheaper Apple wants all the money they can sucker out to you. Even after you buy the computer from them you will find that there is always something more to buy from them and it never ends. Buy a PC.

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Yes Indeed
Aug 7, 2006 11:24AM PDT

That makes sense?....So the bottom line is that Apple is out to take your money away from you and the other Sterling builders of PC's are great guys, give you good deals and are not interested in capitalism. Happy

Oh don't forget that if you are a PC user and you value your "data" then you will spend at least $100.00 per year to buy firewall software, virus software and spyware software. And by the way if you think that one of the lovely security suits will cure all, you are sadly mistaken. You will need to layer your security setup. Happy Computing!.....Cheers!

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I don't buy that software any more
Aug 8, 2006 1:06AM PDT

I stopped using virus protection any more because of editing. And even if I did spent a $100.00 on software I still spented a lot more at the apple store buying books and DVD's and software and apple care and a three years of insurance from them and more ram for my computer and the air port extreme card and I can't remember what else I bought from them I would hate to see how much money I spent now that I bought the emac.I guess I could have bought the G5 with all the money I spent at the apple store.

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Upgrading System & Insurance
Aug 8, 2006 2:29AM PDT

I can understand your frustration. Sounds like you purchased a Mac that did not have all of the features that you need. In view of your film operations and other things you probably do with it. I also see why you are angry with the Mac sales people at the store you purchased your unit. They didn't ask and you probably didn't go into what you needed to do with your computer. Sounds like someone that was interested in making a sale and undersold you a machine. You obviously needed a high power "performance unit" and you purchased a nice computer that will do most or all things for the mainstream type of user.

Insurance, personnaly that is a big business where most resellers make a fortune and I feel it's a waste of money. You bought a Mac, a quality product that in most cases will not have major failures. If it is indeed defective that should be evident on the front end and the manufacturer should stand behind the product and make it right.

Gilbert

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Upgrading system
Aug 8, 2006 11:08AM PDT

Hi Gilbert, The saleman who sold me my emac didn't know anything about editing but knew alot about photo's and how much the emac could hold up to and that it was a great machine for me to learn on without me spending a lot of money and he sold me alot of other stuff that I didn't need. I really wish he just sold me a better machine in the first place since the value of the computer goes down in price so fast, I would have been happier that way. In some ways I do like the mac computers and I have learnt how to use it pretty good where I can help someone else that doesn't know what they are doing. But I really need to go back to work and I really need a computer that i can use as fast as I get it out of the box. Right after I bought the computer I bought it back to return it but the wouldn't let me and if they were smart they could have sold me a better computer and made more money. So I can't make up my mind on what to buy now. Thanks for your reply Gilbert.

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macs iclude more soft ware
Nov 4, 2006 11:07PM PST

macs include better video edtiding soft ware than windows movie maker. they also have iPhoto witch windows doesn't even have something comparable to that. also a web creator so macs would be cheaper if you bought a comparable pc and then added all of that software but if you don't use that software then a comparable pc would probably be better off with a dell r something like that

to see what software i'm talking about click this link

http://www.apple.com/ilife/