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General discussion

Dont see how Mac's are cheaper than PC's

Jul 18, 2006 11:42PM PDT

I have been seriously thinking about getting a Mac lately, because I really like its operating system and its supposed to have better hardware. But before, I was hesitant to do that, since you couldn't run as much software on it as you could on Windows PCs. However, now that they released Macs with OS X on Intel processors, I could just use boot camp to install a Windows partition on the Mac as well. But when I checked the Apple website, I checked the prices for their laptops, and they are all so expensive. Many people say that Macs are much cheaper in comparison to pc's, but I don't see how that's true. I was mainly looking for a Pentium Core Duo processor at 2.0 ghz, around 100 gb HD, 2 GB RAM, and DVD RW among other specifications. Are there any other sellers or any places where I can find Mac's that are cheaper?

Discussion is locked

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Cheaper Macs
Jul 19, 2006 5:17AM PDT

You may be able to find cheaper Macs but only by a few dollars.
I notice that you do not give any examples of cheaper PC laptops and remember they must be from a major manufacturer.

For instance, I just went over to the Dell site to build a laptop based on the specs below.
I'm not sure if the Centrino Duo is the same as the Duo in the Mac but...

Cost of Dell XPS M1710 with XP Pro, 2Ghz Duo, 2GB RAM, 100GB HD is $3539
Cost of Apple MacBook Pro 17" with OS X, 2.16 Cor Duo (they don't do a 2.0Ghz hence my Centrino question), 2GB RAM, 120GB Serial HD, is $3539.
The Mac also has IEEE1394, wireless and Bluetooth built-in.
It is also lighter, thinner and a whole bunch better looking.

Now that's just a quick look around at a major supplier.

It would seem to me that the Mac was $440 cheaper, has a much better OS and a superb suite of included applications. There is alos no requirement to fork out for AV software and subscriptions.

Of course, it all depends on what you want, how high (or low) your standards are and what you are prepared to settle for.

P

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But that's not true with less expensive models...
Jul 19, 2006 10:51PM PDT

I mainly looking for models in the $1500-1600 price range. I looked at the Dell website, and configured the Dell Inspiron E1705 with these configurations:
Intel Core Duo 2.0 GHz processor
Windows XP Media Center edition
17 in ultraSharp Wide Screen Display with TrueLife
2 GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 667 MHz RAM
256 ATI MOBILITY RAEDON X1400 HyperMemory Video Card
100 GB SATA HD
8x Double layer dvd burner
intel pro wireless 3945 and bluetooth internal
9-cell battery
1 year warranty
I got the computer with these specs for $2270, but there was a coupon for 750 off $2000+ inspiron laptops. So the final price was $1520.
Now with an apple laptop, I started configuring the cheapest MacBook (not any Macbook pros since they were already more expensive than the E1705)These are the configurations:
This is the MacBook 13 inch white one-
Core Duo 2.0 GHz
2 GB DDR2 RAM 667 MHz
100 GB SATA HD
ilife
1 year warranty
DVD RW
internal bluetooth and wireless

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Not even a decent OS
Jul 19, 2006 11:25PM PDT

XP media. Why bother buying an OS that has chunks taken out of it? Why did you not add XP Pro?

Better get that Dell now before Dell changes their marketing technique. They plan to do away with discounts.

Whatever floats your boat. Your machine will do one thing that the Mac won't though. It will run ALL of the 114,000 + viruses available for Windows.

Enjoy

P

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I was planning on putting linux on it instead of XP
Jul 20, 2006 7:19AM PDT

I was going to put Ubuntu and Fedora Core on it as well, and use them both instead of Windows XP.
But what were you saying about Dell changing their marketing technique and ending their discounts?
I might be willing to pay extra for a Mac, but I have to first make sure of a few things. I mean, my current Windows laptop lags a lot after around an hour of usage. Is OS X less demanding of system resources? How durable are their laptops and well built?

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(NT) (NT) Then a Mac would not have suited you anyway
Jul 20, 2006 7:48AM PDT
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Mac v PC..... why is this still an issue??? Cop on!
Jul 27, 2006 10:01PM PDT

Ha ha ha,

Said like a true Mac fan. Well mrmacfixit I totally agree with you.
It has to be said that sometimes you just can't compare the two (Mac's v PC)
People trying to compare a Dell XPS Notebook with Duo Core against a Macbook Pro are wasting their time.
You see guys a Duo Core processor runs so much better on a Mac with OSX than any Win system regardless of configuration.

I'm not going to bore you with facts & figures but I will say one thing "Benchmark"
Have a look at how fast a Macbook Pro can complete specific tasks especially when it comes to graphics, 3D, video editing etc.....

I have a friend working in media & he reckons that sometimes the Mac is 3-4 times faster than one of his colleagues PC's (with similar spec, Ram, Ghz, HD etc)

Then last but not least the OS. Windows is a bucket of nuts & bolts as far as I'm concerned. OSX is just incredible (not 100% perfect) but embarrassingly stable compared to XP. It's forgivable too. I have to use PC's at work (I work for the largest PC manufacturer in the world, guess who?). Never has a day passed without a crash, freezing, bugs & the most annoying one of all for me, the copy paste command tends to stop working after a few hours & can only be resolved with a restart!

So if you want a PC with loads of bells & whistles (to cover up all the flaws) go for it. If you want something state of the art, reliable, stable, beautiful & extremely powerful then you know what to do.

One tip if you're buying a PC with a pre-installed Anti-virus/internet security suite (you know the two I'm talking about) get yourself an extra 512-1024MB ram to cope with the resources it uses up especially when they eventually allow loads of spyware in to weigh your system down.

Happy shopping!

Barochoc ;o)

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I Love Microsoft
Jul 28, 2006 2:54AM PDT

They keep me employed. How boring would life be if things didn't break?

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Never a boring day at work!
Jul 28, 2006 3:17AM PDT

I would well believe you're very busy & not sitting around twiddling your thumbs.
Wouldn't mind a job there either as I believe they pay very well & really look after the staff. ;o)

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Macs aren't completely flawless either...
Jul 28, 2006 8:29AM PDT

I mean, while Macs have much better stability than Windows and comes with a better operating system, it also has its own share of problems. I believe the most important factor in buying a computer is its performance. But I've seen on the reviews for MacBooks on CNET that say that nonnative software for Macs run slowly on them. While lots of useful software come with Macs already preloaded on them, if other software runs slowly, then that seems like a pretty big negative for me. Also, I still don't see how all of Macs upsides would justify the extra pricing. I mean most of the software that comes with Macs aren't even essential and if performance isn't up to par with PC's, I don't know if its worth it buying. I have a Dell at home and I haven't witnessed all of this necessary maintenance needed with PCs. Mine works fine and I have managed not to be affected by any viruses or problems that significantly damaged my computer.

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Windows and Viruses
Jul 28, 2006 3:33AM PDT

IMHO, I think all of us (even Apple themselves) should be careful about how much we tote the virus counts for the platforms. I realize that 98%+ of viruses and other malware are for Windows machines.

At the moment.

What happens if/when the Mac platform gains popularity and it starts getting targeted more? I hear people complain about the Firefox web browser now. "I thought it was supposed to be more secure. I keep having to install updates now". I maintain that it's because more people are using it, so more flaws are being discovered and fixed.

Don't get me wrong: I love the Mac platform (I grew up a PC user) and the Firefox web browser. I'm just saying we need not get too proud about the current status, because things can change quite quickly.

My two cents for what it's worth. Happy

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idk
Jul 25, 2006 7:19AM PDT

theres not really alot of places where ur gonna get a cheap apple product. ur better off getting a refurb one. but its worth the $$$ to buy that new mac from apple cause they run well and have none of the millions of issues that windows has

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It was explained this way...
Jul 25, 2006 3:59PM PDT

A long time ago, someone explained it to me this way: Microsoft is a software company and Apple is a hardware company. Microsoft doesn't care who builds the hardware to run their software, therefore there are hords of companies that make junk to run Microsoft software. A PC guru told me that there are only a few really good motherboards made for a PC and 99% of PCs don't use them. Apple makes (or authorizes under thier scruitiny) the hardware for their computers, and the software that third-party companies make for Macs must run on the limited hardware. In comparison (I was told) the quality of the Mac hardware is generally better than the majority of what the PC has. I'm sure PC fans would say this is pure BS.

The other thing about Macs (this is my 2-cents) is that the Mac comes pre-installed with some really good multi-media software (iLife). Some PC fans will say it's garbage, but believe me, for the average home user it's excellent. All of the iLife programs communicate with each other, so if you are editing a movie in iMovie, you can see and access your photos and music and sound efx effortlessly. All are intuitive and easy to use. The software in a Mac was designed by Apple, so it works. Software made by third-party companies is designed to work on Mac hardware, so it works.

A lot of external hardware (drives, DVD burners, camcorders, etc.) plug into a Mac and their icon shows up immediately on the desktop. No guessing whether the comuputer recognized it. Try plugging a Camcorder into the majority of PCs for movie editing. It won't happen. Most don't have a Firewire connection. Most don't have any movie editing software. Most don't have any music editing software. Most don't have picture editing software. Most don't have DVD making software. It comes standard with the Mac. This has got to be worth something. Not that your PC is missing any multi-media software, but my father-in-law, who also complained that my iMac was expensive, wanted to make his PC equal to my Mac so he could edit movies and burn DVDs. By the time he made his computer equal, he spent more than the difference of the computers, and it took him a month to find editing software that was compatible with his new audio/video card.

Design. The Mac certainly has some of the greatest computer designs. They are often used in high-tech design and art magazines. The drawback for many Macs is that they are not meant to be upgraded by the home user. The tower computers are, but for home, the iMac or the laptop are not. But for so much of what you may need the computer for, you may not need to upgrade anything.

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I think you are so wrong about the apple vs. windows
Jul 28, 2006 1:40AM PDT

I have one of each 1. is a Sony Vaio and the other one is an emac. I use both for video editing and I do a lot of editing that's my reason for having a computer or two in my house. I'm also getting ready to buy another computer so that I can get my work done faster and with less problems like crashing and freezing up on me. I have had both of these computers for two to three yrs now and I can tell you this so far I can finish a project 95%of the time with my vaio and only 5% with the emac. I had to do a lot of learning on my own with both computer and sometimes at the apple store cause I have the pro care card. And I still have more problems with the mac computer then the vaio. I have been working so hard with the mac computer to finish a project that is 4 hours long and I can't get passed the 2 hour mark, cause something always goes wrong and I have to start over again. I'm editing in final cut express 2 and for the life of me I don't understand why I can't burn a DVD right after I finish my project having to go thur all the different steps is where I have most of my problems where I can't finish what I was working on.So I have to start again in hopes that the next time I can do whatever it takes to finish the project. When I'm in iDVD and I drag my file into the screen I get an error messege that says I have the wrong file or whatever else it gives me I can't think of the other error messeges I get at this minute but its stopping me from running out to the store to buy a better mac. Now as for the pc I can edit time after time and I can finish whatever I start even in using pinnacle studio 10 media and if you know anything about using pinnacle there software always has bugs in it like crazy and alot to times it slows me down until they can find a fix for there problems. And I don't have to keep paying out my money for there fixes. Where when ever I have a problem with my mac and I ask apple to help me its always more money out of my pocket and I still can't finish my project using my apple computer. Apple will tell me I should buy more books to read or i should buy more software cause it will help me get thur whatever problems I am having with the computer or I go down to the store which is not close to me but I'll go there anyway just to see if they can help me. And sometimes I have to bring back my emac which is 50 pounds and its not easy getting it to the store being that its weights so much. And even with bring it there doesn't mean that they can help me. But they will tell me what to buy to help me fix the problem, which in the end doesn't help me in the end. But I have been working very hard trying to learn final cut and I would love to edit using a good mac computer if it would only work for me.
Sorry I have so much to say about my problems with my computers. maria have a good day everyone that reads my story.

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Maria and her Mac
Jul 28, 2006 4:35AM PDT

See her post in another thread a year ago:
http://reviews.cnet.com/5208-6126-0.html?forumID=10&threadID=105691&messageID=1224670
It would appear that she still hasn't bothered to get that book to learn FC Express. From reading her posts, this seems too sophisticated a program. There are a ton of good books about iDVD and iLife.
Basically, it's still the case that Maria has much more knowledge of her Windows PC than her Mac, won't put in the time and effort to bring her Mac knowledge up to her PC knowledge, then bashes Mac for it.
INHO, she should just put the eMac (Final Cut on an eMac???) on eBay and live happily in the Windows world.

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Here is an answer to your reply
Jul 29, 2006 1:32AM PDT

I have brought all the books to help me with final cut and what happened was I learnt to many different ways to edit. And I don't have a problem with doing my cuts it when I'm finsh with the project and I sent it to my desktop so that I can bring it to idvd is where the problem is. For the life of me I will not understand why final cut doesn't have where to burn a project from its software so that you don't and to go through so many wasted steps. When I use Pinnacle I can finish a project and sent it to render and then it burns for me without any problems. But at the apple store all I keep hearing is that my problem is with the emac that its not strong enough to to handle my projects cause they are so big. So all they want me to do is buy a better computer from them like the G5 that will cost me a lot of money. And On the other hand I spent a lot of money on the emac with buy more ram more books more software more pro care and the three service on the emac. So where does it end so that I could just edit and finish a project without all the problems?

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iLife is the answer
Jul 29, 2006 4:57PM PDT

Maria,

The newer Macs (from the past 4 or 5 years) have been bundled with iLife, and if you don't have it on your Mac, this is what you need to edit and burn in one step. The two main programs are iMovie, which imports video, edits it, adds titles, transitions and effects (like Pinnacle), then with a click of one button within iMovie your edited project gets imported directly to iDVD which encodes the video, adds animated menus and burns it to DVD. To supplement these two programs, you have iPhoto, Garage Band (a great little digital music creation program) and now it includes iWeb, a very easy program to create web pages. iTunes is also included on the computers but it's not part of the retail iLife because it's a free download because Apple wants to sell music. I'm not sure the eMac was built for video importing and editing so I don't know if it could support iMovie. Does the eMac even have a Firewire port? My old clear-blue iMac didn't.

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Apple Spec page
Jul 29, 2006 10:44PM PDT

shows the eMac as having 2 Firewire 400 ports since the first machine.
It also had the iLife suite, sans iDVD for those machines without DVD-R capabilities, installed when shipped.
Processors went from 700Mhz to 1.24Ghz with RAM peaking at 1GB for all of them.

This would indicate that the eMac would be a suitable machine to be running FCP on and should not have been causing the problems she had. Note that she was having the problem in the transition from the final editing move to the creation of a completed DVD. Hopefully, when she mentions having to start all over again, she did not mean doing all the editing again.

I created at 90 minute DVD using iMovie/iDVD using a 450Mhz G4 cube last year so the eMac should be well up to the task

P

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So I don't have to buy another computer
Jul 30, 2006 7:40AM PDT

Thank you for the news cause I'm never sure if at the apple store is just trying to sell me more than I need to buy. from them. So should I just buy ilife'06 ? I'm thinking that maybe that would make using idvd easier for me to use than it is now. What I was talking about before was I had just finish a project and I had it on my desktop so that I could drag it into idvd and when I tried to do that idvd told me that I had the wrong file type. So I tried all the different way that i could to make it work and when I couldn't get it to burn I just deleted everything so that I could start all over again. You are right about my spec's on the emac I do have 1GB of ram I just had someone at the apple store install it for me. and I have there superdrive to do all my burning.
Ok I'm working on a different project now in final cut and I had to use the color correction and after I that I played it back on my timeline to see that the clip starts to play the right way and then it stop the action but the audio is still playing like there is nothing wrong with the clip. Sort of like its dropping a big video frames at a time.

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What is the processor speed of
Jul 30, 2006 8:05AM PDT

this machine.
Apple menu/about this mac/more info will tell you what you need to know. Also, while you are there, check the HD size for me.

iLife 06 is a nice piece of software and iMovie is pretty sophisticated considering its price.
I assume you use FCP for a reason. I thought, I don't have FCP, that it was possible to go render the FCP project so that it is ready to burn, without the aid of iDVD. I could be wrong, but if I am, what is the accepted procedure for transferring an edited movie into iDVD?

P

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Here I'll tell you what my processor is: 1.25
Jul 30, 2006 8:53AM PDT

I have 80GB of hard drive space with fcx on it I have delete a couple of things on my computer so that I could free up move space on my hard drive. I also have 1gb of ram on the computer too. So do you think I will have enough room on my computer to run ilife '06 without using up to much space on my hard drive? Thanks for your help, Maria

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Definately
Jul 30, 2006 9:54AM PDT

However, remember that editing movies takes a LOT of HD space to store the raw footage as well as the edited stuff.

80GB is a little small for your needs but this can be addressed by the use of a 250GB, or greater, Firewire external drive.

If your movies, when moved to iDVD are causing the machine to choke, HD space can be the problem. Please do not delete anymore stuff from your HD, you may end up deleting something that you, or the system, will eventually need.

Check out Macsales.come for a large external, firewire drive. It's cheaper than a new machine and can be used if you ever decide to get one.

Let me know what you think.

P

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About getting a external drive
Jul 30, 2006 3:26PM PDT

I have one that I use and it a 250GB only some times I use it and then sometimes I don't use it. Someone told me that it slows down the computer and makes it render longer so I stopped using it. But this time I did use it cause the project I'm working on is 2 and half hours long so I decided to use it. The only problem I'm having now is that I'm losing clips off of my timeline and I can't figure out why that's happening to me. Can you tell why that is happening to me? Thanks for your help, Maria

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my emac
Jul 30, 2006 2:04AM PDT

Hi Dan, Thanks for telling me about what the new macs have. But I am editing using final cut thats why I'm complaining about not being to burn a project after I finish my projects. I'm still not sure which computer to buy a Sony Vaio or an imac. I really wish I could buy one of each so that I could edit with two good computer at once like I'm doing now. Only the computer's I'm using now are slow and old. I was looking on ebay last night to see how much money I could sell my emac for and there were so many different models I couldn't believe my eyes. And some of them had bigger hard drives and there speed was faster than the one I have. And someone said that he could put 2gb of ram into his computer. So I called my apple store to see if I could upgrade my computer and I was told no. So i guess I'm back to what to buy. So let me know what you are thinking maybe you can help me make up my mind. Thank you, Maria

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thanks mmacfixit,
Jul 30, 2006 4:26AM PDT

I didn't realize that the eMacs were configured this way. I see the dilemma facing Maria. Why doesn't she buy a new Intel Mac, that way she can use it as a Mac or load Windows and use it as a PC too. This way, if she has a problem making DVDs, the computer software won't be to blame. Of course, she would need to buy and install Windows and installl the Pinnacle software.

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To be fair
Jul 30, 2006 4:56AM PDT

not everyone has a couple of grand to lay down at the drop of a hat.

I agree that a nice new Intel iMac would be just what the doctor ordered but this may not be a viable proposition.
Adding memory to the eMac is the only internal upgrade, other than a larger drive, that can be done.

Peter

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Re: mmacfixit
Jul 31, 2006 2:32AM PDT

Shouldn't I wait to see how the new mac's work with the PC build into it cause there may be problems with it that they don't know about yet. After all you never should buy a new car that's out for the first time.

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Windows is NOT built into a Mac
Jul 31, 2006 11:35AM PDT

The Mac has the ability to run Windows, nothing more.

All Macs currently on sale, with the exception of the G5 range, have the ability to run Windows, should you want to.

It's really not worth waiting if you are ready to go now.

P

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I have made up my mind for now
Jul 31, 2006 12:08PM PDT

Ok I went on ebay the other day to see how I could get for my emac and there were so many up for sell and they weren't get much for them, so I'll keep mind for now since its still like new and I'm thinking about getting ilife '06. But I have to tell you that I'm going to be buying a sony vaio I found one that has a 750GB of hard drive space and alot of other things that I like about it so I'm waiting for a couple of other questions to be answered for me and then I'll decided if its the right way to go for me. But thanks for your help, maria

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eMac is ancient technology
Jul 28, 2006 4:52AM PDT

The eMac was designed for use in schools. NOT for video editing. Furthermore, the microprocessor is several generations old. Go to a local Mac Retail store and see what they have to offer. Also, try to run software that was designed to run on Mac (FinalCut has been suggested.) Most of it can be demoed in the same store. Remember, most advertising companies as well as most major animation studios still use Mac.
There must be a reason.

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about picking an apple
Jul 29, 2006 1:42AM PDT

I have been at the apple store so much that all the guys know me. So here I go again, at the store I hear that I should buy an imac but I should go on line to buy it because I have to add more ram and up the video card to 256mb so that I can use final cut. But on the other hand when I was online doing im the other person I was talking to wanted me to only buy a G5 cause I was planning on using it for final cut. So I didn't know which way to go, so I went back to the store and they told me to just buy imac and just do the upgrades. What would you do?