31 total posts
College deferments were common
I remember if you enrolled in college and maintained a certain grade level you could get up to 4 years of deferments. I never got a number on my draft card. I did go from a H for Holding to a J something which is what you got 6 months before going "A" with a draft number assigned to it. It was a month or two before going "A" that suddenly the draft was put on hold, and then nobody else was being drafted. I still have the paper card somewhere in an old wallet. Carried it around in case I got "carded" sometime to see if I was registered. Later I went in on a delayed enlistment program. I doubt Trump knew he'd get a medical that kept him from being drafted. It wasn't till I entered the AF that I discovered I had a rare color blindness that kept me from getting the electronics position I wanted. Another medical situation disqualified me from flight duty I'd already been qualified for or I'd probably have been on one of those planes that went down over Nicaraguq, which means I lost the Spanish assignment and instead ended up in Russian school. Deferments in that time were not due to being rich, but due to college and for anyone who met those requirements. I'm guessing Trump never served? They disqualify people at times for the oddest things medically. My daughter's ex boyfriend was halfway through Navy bootcamp this past year when they suddenly gave him a medical due to a kidney stone and put him out. This was someone who had done ROTC all through school and I think was perfect for Navy otherwise. My oldest is in the Marines because she couldn't get accepted by the AF due to a brush with the law. My second daughter had a nomination to West Point, (she'd wanted one to Annapolis) but failed to meet upper body strength qualifications. She ended up as a Civil Engineer and now works for Maryland's SHA on roads, bridges, culverts, etc. The military isn't for everyone and even those who want to be in the military often aren't accepted for various reasons, some of them seeming a bit trivial at times.
Trump was not a draft dodger if that's want you are trying to suggest.
RE: I doubt Trump knew he'd get a medical
if you believe a doctor will falsify a birth certificate, you should also believe a doctor will give the Donald a medical excuse.
I never said that
Why do you keep lying about what others have not said?
RE: I doubt Trump knew he'd get a medical
I doubt Trump knew he'd get a medical that kept him from being drafted
He's a "very smart man", you doubt a very smart man?
The medical conditions that would disqualify a person from serving in the military are known/published/common knowledge and IF a person has even 1 of those medical conditions, and people were "working the system". A "very smart" (see Donald Trump) person would make it his business to know this fact, and put it to good use.
Can you get a deferment for being follically/follicularly challenged?
And I'm not talking about Trump. You believe he arranged to have a medical condition to avoid the draft?
RE: You believe he arranged
I see you changed "knew" to "arranged".
I doubt Trump knew he'd get a medical that kept him from being drafted
You believe he arranged to have a medical condition to avoid the draft?
If I have bad vision, and KNOW that it would disqualify from service, I didn't arrange it...I just "knew it", I can know things without being responsible for making it happen/arranging.
I haven't accused him of poking his eye out.
you implied it
with "working the system".
My cousin did
He has a back that looks terrible on an x-ray which he took down to the draft board. It didn't stop him from surfing back then or skiing now. But it got him out of the draft.
BTW my other cousin went to Viet Nam and survived but, then, was drummed out after it was over when they were sheddng Captains.
Unlikely an army doctor would falsify an induction record.
That's not really the point
Trump claimed that the only reason he didn't serve was that his number never came up. Apparently that's not true and he went to some lengths to avoid serving. No conspiracy, no falsified documents, just someone lying about his past.
My compliments, James, on a clearly presented and well
reasoned presentation. My honest and sincere commiserations regarding your difficulties during military service and I commend you for your service and for your kids admirable records.
That is all. No digs, no smart-@ss, no insincerity. Just Thank you very much,
Unintended outcomes (and more) of that era.... maybe
I happened to live during that time and had a draft card. I had a student deferment but was eventually 1-A. There was all sorts of "draft dodging" going on. Can you really blame anyone for wanting to avoid the war...except maybe "The Donald", of course. Conversations about the war, patriotic duty, and ways to avoid/delay entering the military were common among us. Many that I knew, who'd never consider entering college, were looking to avoid the draft by applying to universities. These are kids who never would have gone. College educations were not considered as important back then as they are now. Those kids who went to school to avoid the draft probably did themselves and the country a favor as they quite probably found themselves earning more but paying higher taxes. A win for them and for the government?
I can admit to being another kind of draft dodger. I did so by enlisting in a branch that didn't engage in ground fighting. Lot's of kids did the same. If you think about it, we were all draft dodgers of a sort. There were plenty of other ways to dodge the draft by enlisting in alternate services. There was the National Guard and Coast Guard. These were a little tougher to get into than into the "regulars".
I find it very strange today that so many of the folks who found ways to avoid the military or the Viet Nam war are now calling into scrutiny political candidates of that era who did not serve or were able to avoid infantry service. These are the very same people who either did the same, participated in anti war protests, and were supportive of young folks fleeing the country to avoid the draft back then. Isn't that a strange irony?
RE: Isn't that a strange irony?
Yes...it is, there are many strange goings on, going on.
Thank you. Steven, for confirming my own experiences which
when noted here about 2004 or 2005 were roundly denied as fiction by the community back then. I did mistakenly conflate the Draft Lottery with the earlier system, but I also talked about the kids I knew who played the system, or had Daddys and political connections who could play the system for them. I remember how popular the Coast Guard was, though some people must have been surprised because there were Coast Guard units which served in Viet Nam as indeed did some National Guard Units. But how I remember those discussions in the Common Room or over beer in a bar about how we felt about the war, and what we who despised it could do to get out of it. I was something of a modestly well off kid then but I was offended by the really wealthy kids' arrogance about not having to serve because they could game the system and had access to people who would intercede for them.
Just as you find it strange today that non-servers scrutinize political candidates military records (it's a fall out from the bitterness and political divisions that grew out of that war) I found it peculiar that the same people who were belittling Clinton's declaration that he wouldn't serve (he wrote a letter to his draft board), and that he didn't because he had a high number, were ignoring Cheney's and Paul Wolfowitz's and half a dozen more "Chicken Hawks" who pushed for Gulf War 2 when their records were of draft avoidance of the most egregious kind. Cheney had a ridiculous number of deferments. Rumsfeld served, but it clearly damaged his memory or his intelligence judging by his book.
I was such a bad asthmatic that I was declared 4F at the pre-induction physical, and was grateful for it.
Irony can be a b***h, Donald
Don't go around demanding all kinds of documentation, proof that no other president has ever been asked to provide, proof that the proof is really proof, and further documentation proving that the proof of the proof is genuine if you've got stuff like this in your past. And we haven't even gotten a peek at your finances yet (which you said you'd fully disclose if Obama produced his birth certificate).
Watching Trump's campaign implode will be fun.
I don't think there will be anything to watch
At most, he's interested in publicity. I doubt if he even cares whether it's of the good or bad type.
Let's start a pool
Which news outlet will be the first to print a headline that reads, "American voters to Trump: You're Fired!"
Let's play "connect the dots".....
Remember the Brinks Robbery at Nanuet Mall('81) where Ayer's Weather Underground dirt bags executed a guard?
And "the chosen one" claims the dirtbag,Ayers was just 'A guy in the neighborhood' when he held a coming out party for him in '95? Yeah right...Obama is trying to hide the fact that he's known Ayers since the early '80s,not since '95 as he claims.That's why Obama's Columbia years are being kept secret!
"We have Barack Obama at Columbia working on South African divestment (as were many peaceful protestors) while other radical elements with a Weather Underground flavor are setting bombs, killing cops, and working on South African divestment. As a bonus, Bill Ayers is studying at Bank Street College a quarter mile from Columbia towards his Masters in Education and Kathy Boudin, one of the Brinks getaway drivers, was working at a progressive Upper West Side School. Eventually Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn raised Kathy's child while she was in jail, so it seems a fair guess that they were close.
A small, small world in which Obama never met any of these people despite their shared passion for justice in South Africa. Never heard them speak at a rally, never heard anyone describe the Weather Underground to him, and felt comfortable assuming that Bill Ayers had been rehabilitated by 1995. In fact, a world so small that Obama won't talk about it now."
Good old Ayers who boasted:"guilty as hell and free as a bird" after the FBI screwed up.He was very active in the Columbia neighborhood in the early 80's.
Wow, I just got whiplash....
.....from that sharp turn you just took off the topic. "Connect the dots" can be a very misleading game. You could probably connect me to all kinds of unsavory people who I've either never met or had very little to do with.
And we were talking about Donald Trump.
I took the topic as being about lying..
which is what the annointed one is doing also.
Shall I start a separate thread then
That's the Duly and Uncontoversially Elected One, Tony
You have produced a random series of dots and invite us to
connect them. That's like making patterns out of stars in the sky, each culture has it's own set of constellations. They only agree nowadays on the old Greek system for convenience and communication.
Presence in the same City, adherence to the same cause, neither is proof of a connection. Neither is a casual conversation, if there was one which you don't suggest, which led to a renewed acquaintanceship 14 years later when working on the same community project in Chicago, which you despise anyway.
You are indulging in ex post facto reasoning or alternatively post hoc propter hoc reasoning which says anything that occurs after something must have been caused by it. Such as George Bush was elected President, and then the Manhattan Trade Centre was attacked, therefore George Bush must have had something to do with the attack on the Manhattan Trade Centre. Rubbish, Tony, and you know it.
Go stand in a blizzard and connect the dots.
Your post was actually civil until............
you had to end it with a snidey remark directed at me,feel better
I've never had any concept of voting for Trump, but the way it bothers you and Ziks, it's almost tempting to do so.
Glad we could help you make up your "mind". Rob
Trump was really stupid enough to make that offer?
If he promised to open up his books after Mr. Obama produced the birth certificate, then I think we can bet that Mr. Trump will be the last person to acknowledge the legitimacy of anything Mr. Obama presents.
He will NEVER open his books
I wonder if he even realizes that this will be asked of him if he becomes an official candidate.
I don't think he will run because of this
and he takes himself way too seriously. Did you see him as the correspondence dinner. He did not look like a happy camper - really glum.
He got royally roasted. He was stupid even to show up.
Yup, apparently the main course....
.....was Trump's combed-over head on a platter. Obama ate him up and spit him out.