Don't get ripped off when your PC is out for repair or upgrade

Only buy from a reputable dealer 'Dell or HP'!
Remember 'if you pay peanuts you get monkeys'.

Download a free software program called BELARC. Install and run it before you take your computer in for repair/upgrade. BELARC will give you intricate information and detail of each and EVERYTHING on your computer including installed hardware with their serial numbers. The same with software programs installed.

After your computer returns, re-run the program and go over the changes and see if they are what you ordered and paid for.

Although everyone has heard "horror stories" about unscrupulous computer repair shops, and dishonest computer technicians, the likelihood of being scammed/fleeced is quite small, especially if you use a reputable shop like Comp USA, Best Buy, Staples Easy Tech, etc. A major retail chain like that will screen its employees very thoroughly, and have sufficient security procedures in place to help keep their employees honest.

Furthermore, most computers have few or no parts that are worth stealing that could be removed/substituted without causing a marked change in the computer's performance. And that's not even taking into account the time and effort to replace the parts and evade security/smuggle them out of the store.

A dishonest technician is much more likely to steal/copy your data than to take parts and components from your machine. Not only is there no way for the customer to know if this has happened, but the "eye in the sky" can't tell either. A loss prevention associate watching a surveillence monitor can tell if a technician is swapping out a stick of RAM or graphics card and stuffing it in his pocket, but there's no way for him to focus in on the computer screen and see if the tech is browsing through the customer's documents and/or copying files that they want.

I would again like to reiterate that if you deal with a reputable repair facility, you should not have any of these problems. If you deal with a shady "fly by night" operation, then anything's possible.

John,

First, I'd like to state I have never actually met anyone who has experienced an incident as you describe. But if you are still uncomfortable, Step one is to ask your friends and coworkers which shop they use. Step two, pop the cover off your computer and take some photographs before treking to the shop. Make sure you capture any numbers on items which aren't being upgraded. Step three, tell the shop you would like all the boxes, manuals, packing material, etc. from your new parts and all of your old parts after they finish. Step four, ask if you can watch them work on your computer (tell them you are curious, not that you think they are going to rip you off). Step five, pop the cover when it comes back and compare to your photos.

Actually, If the paranoia can be put aside, there's a much simpler and more pleasant approach. Start with the same Step one as before to find a reputable shop. For Step two ask to speak to the technician who will be working on your computer. When you meet them, politely introduce yourself. Give them $20 and tell them that it's a thanks for the excellent job you know they'll do on your machine. Step three is go get yourself a Starbucks and let them do their job. They'll take good care of you.

First things first, how can you determine exactly what is in your computer before and after a trip to the repair shop. Simple! take a picture. Not with a camera, but with a program that will inspect your computer and report back exactly what is in your machine.

I use a free program (Belarc) that is available from Belarc.com. Download it and run, there is your picture before. Run again after upgrade and compare. That should allay any questions in your mind.

The chances of getting ripped off by a reputable store are pretty slim.

Fred Hambrecht
w4jle@w4jle.com

Always get all the documention on all new devices and software installed. Another way to find out what is installed in your system is to use software which will detect it. One program that can scan your computer is AIDA32 and I'm sure there are others that can do the job too. Check out the site and download it for free. Then you can check your system. http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/AIDA-Download-6969.html.

I hope this is helpful.

Ralph

Hey John,

Really, the only way to make sure the products you ordered were installed is to open up your computer and writing down the product numbers on the new components and Googling them.

Personally, I think it is a much better option to order the new parts yourself and then install them. It will save you a lot of money, and you have the piece of mind of knowing it was done right. If you choose to go this route, I would recommend Crucial.com. They have a free scanner that checks your computer and finds compatible RAM chips and graphics cards, and their prices are decent (You might want to check Newegg.com to see if you could get a better deal though) Installation is also very easy, and if you need help there are lots of websites out there that can help you.

If you do it yourself, you save money and you know that the right stuff was installed.

Sean

Try downloading "Belarc Advisor".It lists hardware on your system

Simply, Do it yourself! It's not difficult to exchange a Video card. You already have one, just replace it. Same with other cards. For the big stuff, like hard drives and motherboards. Get friendly with User groups, every town has one or two, with the Mom and Pop computer stores.

Big outfits like Compute USA, Best Buy... They could care less. They thrive on the masses. More mass, more money.

Hope this helps.

Mike Hallock

I prefer to work with technicians that return all of the components that WERE in your computer to you. That is a good start. Then, at least there is no immediate profit motive for them to pirate your parts. Before you trust your computer to someone, ask about their training or credentials; a good one for them to have is called an "A+" certification. Talk to them about what your computer might need to fix it--they may not know yet, but if they are confident and have a routine way of checking out possibilities, that is a good sign. They may need to call you with an estimate when they figure out what is wrong, just like your veterinarian or car mechanic would need to do.

Also, ask them to explain what they did when you pick your computer up; it's easy to get lost in the aftermath of a question like that, so try asking questions that are answered in terms of what the changes mean to YOU. An example of this would be a question that tells you how much faster the new part will work (you may get a range here), or what the advantage of the new part IS. You can ask how they could tell that the part they replaced needed to be replaced--would you rather hear an answer like "I just guessed," or "if that doesn't fix it, we'll try something else," or "that is what it usually is when you have a problem like you had," or "I checked the output of the circuitry, and some of the readings varied from what they should be, so I replaced that part and now the readings are what they should be?"

Answering customer questions is tricky for a technician, because it can sometimes be hard to tell HOW MUCH information the customer really wants. If the answer is way over your head, don't assume that they are trying to B.S. you. However, most technicians don't have the luxury of being able to be your personal tutor, either, so asking about the benefits of the changes can save you both a lot of time.

I used to sell jewelry, and the answer to questions like yours was more technical than some customers wanted to hear. Checking someone else's work usually involves learning at least something about what they do. I'm guessing that you probably use some version of Windows, so hang on and try this:

Right Click on "My Computer."
Click on "Properties."
Click on "Hardware."
Click on "Device Manager."

Go down the left column and click all the plus symbols. Each one will expand, and show you the models of your components. If you click on one of those, it will pop up a box that can show you the version of driver (software) that item is running with. Anyway, for each chunk of information you want to keep, highlight it and click "copy." Now you can open a new (blank) document in your favorite word processing program, and "paste" each bit of information you've copied. Continue until you have all the information you need. Save and backup, or print. When your computer comes back, you can repeat the first part of this process and compare what you see with what is on your list. This will tell you what (physically) has changed since you made the list. You may also be able to skip the copy and paste process if you can print the list directly from the device manager.

You can research model numbers (for items like motherboards, processors, disc drives, etc.) on the internet. The manufacturers will usually have a web page that will show the technical specifications for each one. Likewise, if you want to check to see if the technician has fixed your problem by making a change to your driver version, you can check that too (provided you know what version the hardware item was using before the work was done).

The interesting part about all of this is that you will see where the parts of your computer ACTUALLY come from. I have an HP computer, but my optical disk drives are made by Lite-On and I/O Magic. The graphics processing system was originally NVidia, but I've added an ATI card, too. It's just like your car; your Honda car may have a radio made by Bose, for instance. Be careful about making changes to the settings you see in the device manager--it will change how things work; if you turn off your graphics processor, your display won't work right or maybe not at all. So, be sure you at least write down what changes you are making so you can go back to where you were before you made the changes (or just let your technician worry about all that). Another thing you should be aware of is that the NEWEST driver version MAY NOT be the BEST version for your particular computer. If the technician has "rolled back" your driver to a previous version, and it works as well or better--it's OK. Sometimes the new versions contain a "bug" that causes a conflict with a driver for another piece of hardware or its driver. And even though you may have the same model computer as your friend, the two computers may not contain the same hardware components inside.

The interactions between the physical components of your computer, their drivers, and the programs you actually have on your computer can make troubleshooting seem like making a medical diagnosis must seem. So, what works really well on one computer will make another one complain somehow. Because it is not always clear if a problem is caused by faulty hardware or software, I like technicians who know about both hardware and software. A+ technicians learn about both, and that is a really good start.

You might try asking a local Linux Users Group for a referral; you can find LUGs online. You can try asking local businesses who they like to use. If you don't mind paying extra, consider having the technician come to you; you can keep an eye on them that way, but they may need to make trips to get the parts they need.

When I started getting serious about computers back when Windows XP came around, I knew from the start that I wanted to avoid taking them to PC repair shops completely and do my own repairs simply because I don't trust them. Not that I am paranoid or because I have a grudge, but because I never saw it worth the money to fix a problem or install hardware when I could simply learn how to do it myself. 5 completely different computer builds later, I am proficient in building, upgrading, and troubleshooting and have never regretted the long hours of troubleshooting, wrestling with components, and above all, saving a ton of money by building my own computers as opposed to buying pre-assembled systems, where a CompUSA-built computer would cost me 1600 dollars and I could simply put that same computer together myself for half the price by buying individual parts.

That's just my way of doing it and results will vary person-to-person.

In your case, the best option is to make a strict list of components that you wish to have installed, make sure they are compatible with each other (Core 2 Duo processors use socket 775 motherboards and newer AMD X2 processors use the AM2 socket motehrboards, and newer video cards use 16x PCI-Express instead of 8x AGP, and DDR2 RAM has been on the rise for a few years and that is likely the RAM that you wish to obtain. Go online and do a search of a specific component that you want and be sure it will be compatible with the motherboard that you want. Having basic knowledge of the parts and which are compatible with which will go a long way, and the time spent doing the homework is time well spent).

Once you have your list, make sure that the tech guy understands that those are the parts that you want. If he tries to sell you differently other than what you want while you know that the parts all work with each other, walk right out.

Once the parts are installed and your computer is ready, have them hook a monitor up to it so you can see if the hardware is in fact what you paid for or wanted. Once you have the monitor hooked up, go to Control Panel, Performance and Maintenance, System, Hardware tab, Device Manager, and go down the list there and make sure that the Display Adapter (video card) and processor are what you ordered and have him/her install, and while you're there have the tech man/woman open the side panel and pull the RAM sticks so you can see that the RAM is what you ordered (to be sure that it's actually Corsair, Geil, or whatever RAM set you bought).

Really the best thing to do to avoid any issues is to start building your own computers so you know for sure that the parts you want go into the computer.

My mother had brought her computer to a local computer repair shop back in early '03, against my advice, so she could get some more RAM added. She only wanted an extra 256 megs installed to bring her total to 512 megs, but they went and installed 1 gigabyte total (2 512 meg sticks), charged her for it, and didn't let her know that they did a much larger upgrade than what she wanted. I had her march right back there and demand a refund and to give her back her old RAM sticks. They reinstalled her old RAM, and gave her a refund. I then ordered the RAM online and installed it myself. Problem could have been avoided from the get-go.

You may have no desire to do your own computer work, but then again, many people don't wish to learn how to change their own tires or change their own oil, and that's fine, don't get me wrong, but if you can and have the ability, it is best to do certain maintenance tasks yourself to avoid higher costs or possible drama with techs or mechanics, know what I mean?

Happy Mother's Day to all of you here at CNet. Have a good one

well, you don't...

but if you have put together your own stuff, and if you know which part fails, just unfit it from the pc and pit it in the original box with the rma nr you got from the original maker (not the reseller), then and only then you know you are in control.

at the other hand if you bought the pc from a big brand, it is the trust and confidence you must have of the seller in the right way to repair your machine.

you can tell them how your feelings are in this matter, but it is the faith in the brand and people who are behind it, that will MUST give
the confidence that all will be alright.

That's why so many pc owners do it themselves, buy the stuff, put it together, so they KNOW what's in it, dig?

Ther is nothing more to say about the subject.

If you installed and run belarc advisor (a free utility) it would give you all the information on your computer before you took it to the shop, then run belarc advisor when you get your computer back and compare the printed results I think you would know what was replaced and what was upgraded. "cannoncocker one" suggest

John K.,

One of the best downloads I've ever discovered has to be Sandra. Here's a brief description from sisoftware.net, the developer's homepage:
"SiSoftware Sandra (the System ANalyser, Diagnostic and Reporting Assistant) is an information & diagnostic utility. It should provide most of the information (including undocumented) you need to know about your hardware, software and other devices whether hardware or software."
Sandra--which means "defender of mankind", comes in a limited free version or a more comprehensive commercial version, which you have to pay for. Either one will serve up a full plate of information on just about every aspect of your computer(s), and even your home network, if you have one. While the commercial version may be more sophisticated, I'm sure the free (for personal home users) version can supply you with all you need to know to answer the questions you asked.
Hopefully your computer isn't dead before you have to take it in to a repair shop, since you'll need an operating system to download, install and run Sandra, of course. Once installed, select one of the modules--probably "Computer Overview" to start with. This will give you a big picture of what's in your computer, specs on your motherboard, memory and more. Other modules (some are only available by purchasing the commercial version) can provide a great deal of detail regarding subsystems, such as video cards, peripherals, network details, even installed software and so much more.
Once you have the information you want and need, it's a piece of cake to print out a report that can be used to compare your system once it's returned from service, for example. This would be the surest way to know what changes, if any, have been made to your personal computer. I know I'd sure want to know if a disreputable service center swapped out my high-end memory for sub-standard chips. To prevent problems you could even print out a report of your system and include it when you drop it off for repairs... a good way to be helpful AND to help keep honest people honest, don't you think?
I like Sandra because it has a very intuitive interface, is quite easy to learn... and better yet, learn from. Just surfing through the modules can be extremely informational and educational. I've learned things about my home computers from Sandra (the application is so impressive that I felt it was worth investing in the commercial version) that I didn't even know I wanted to know about!

Good luck,
JD Barnett
Kansas City MO

operating system is xp 2003 but speeding proccess still less

This may not be the answer you are looking for, but I would say it rarely makes sense to upgrade your computer. Technology changes to fast.

Buy a new one, and "hand-down" the old one to your kids, or keep it as a spare. That is what I am going to do with the computer I spent over $1000 for just less than 2 years ago, which I would now be lucky to get a couple of hundred bucks for.

Unless you have some really special hardware, I don't think it would be worth the time for the store to "steal" it. If you are worried about it, download the last freeware version of a program called Everest, it gives a nice printout of all your hardware installed. Print out a report before and after and you should be able to see what has changed.

Cheers,
Richard

Hi John,
There are lot of people who would like to verify their hardware specifications.

I use a tool from Si Software, called Sandrasoft. It is a nice tool which shows the specs of the computer like Motherboard, Processor, Graphics board, Audio board etc.

You can download the evaluation version which is good for 21 days.
http://www.sisoftware.co.uk/index.html?dir=&location=downandbuy&langx=en&a=

The lite version is free for use by schools and non commercial users.

hope it helps.
Ravi

There is only one way to ensure that you are not ripped off by a local/OEM computer manufacturer when having your machine serviced and/or upgraded: Do not take it to said manufacturers. Instead, do it your self, and if you do not have the tools and techniques necessary to do it, take it to a trusted member of the family or a trusted friend, and watch them do it.

I do not say this to imply that local computer shops or large OEM manufacturers are all basically dishonest in their parts replacement. I say it to point out the only one who can be ultimately responsible: the owner himself.

But if one wants to live in this world relying on others to do for him what he is not able to do for himself, rather than gaining the necessary skills and knowledge to do the repairs himself,
(whew!!!) he must learn to trust others. If we cannot trust our suppliers and repairmen, who can we trust?

But there are a few things you can proactively do to protect your investment in your hardware:

1) Always buy electronics from mercandisers you trust as much or more than you trust your brother.
2) Always bring your electronics to trained electronics techs who have been trained specifically to repair/replace computers.
3) Even then, always get a guarantee of at least 1 yr. for each hardware device you purchase and/or have replaced.
4) In lieu of someone with a certificate or a shortage of funds, bring your hardware to a friend or family member you trust to be able to repair your expensive hardware.

Of course, there is a better thing we can do, if we are willing to make the commitment: We can gain the necessary skills and knowledge ourselves, and do the repairs/upgrades ourselves. I assure you, you will be rewarded with a great sense of accomplishment when you successfully replace your first faulty HD yourself, rather than paying a shop $100+parts to do it.

Replacing sound-cards and video cards is even easier. Why anyone would want to pay someone else lots of money, as well as putting their precious computer out of commission for a few days while they wait for the tech to "get around" to it, for something which can be accomplished safely and easily with just a Phillips screwdriver (usually -- sometimes one might need the right hex driver to take the screws out of the sides to get to the Motherboard.

My Dell has a quick-release on the back of the top of the case. All I have to do is operate it, and the side easily and safely comes off. No screws. Good design. Too bad PC makers are just starting to provide such amenities for their customers. Apple has been providing a decent case design for their premium model for several years.


3)

To ensure you don't get ripped off by the store, before you get the computer upgraded install Belarc Advisor (free from http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html).
When you run it the Belarc Advisor builds a detailed profile of your installed software and hardware, plus missing Microsoft hotfixes, anti-virus status, CIS (Center for Internet Security) benchmarks, and displays the results in your Web browser.
So you can make a complete inventory of your computer complete with serial numbers and software licenses, before and after the upgrade.

One sure way to find out if your computer has been upgraded, such as a graphics card. right click on my computer and go to proerties. Click on hardware and then device manager. Under display adapters it will tell you what graphics card you are running. As far as Ram goes if you have upgraded your memory just rick click on my computer and under genereal tab it will tell you how much memory you have. If you are running windows XP you can go to settings and control pannel and use the administrative tools. With the admin tools you can find out just about everything you want to know about you computer. Anouther way is just open the computer up and write down all the information from the mother board to graphics cards and also memory strips. That's the simplist way to do it. Write down Mfg. names and serial numbers. That is one sure way to find out if you have been ripped off.

A very good question.
The definitive answer would be to do all of the upgrading and sourcing of parts yourself, therefore you will know exactly what is coming in and out of your system. However this option is not always possible.

If you do decide to take the store upgrade, the first thing you should do is take an inventory of exactly what is inside your computer. If you are unsure, download the Belarc Advisor from http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html. This will tell you exactly what is inside your PC, right down to the manufacturer of the product.

Then take a screenshot, or print it out as proof of what you had on your PC.

You can also, if you feel competent enough, have a look inside your PC by unscrewing the back screws and sliding off the side panels. You can then look and take note of any product numbers, they will be on stickers on the components. Although these shouldn't be tampered with, stranger things have happened.

Also, make sure that you are clear about what you want putting inside your PC. You may be able to buy the parts yourself from online retailers and ask the store to put them in for you. If not, show them exactly what parts you would like; there should be no hiccups then. Also, try and get the exact specification of what you want in writing, so that you can come back if there is a problem.

However, it is always best that- after the upgrade, you again run Belarc Advisor and see what changes have been made, and that they are the changes that you asked for. You can also, have another look under the hood you can then have a look inside and take any product codes, and see if they are the same as before. Also see if the recently installed hardware is satisfactory.

If you find that a product has been replaced without your permission, or an unsatisfactory product has been installed; go back to the store immediately and demand an explanation. They will probably not come up with one, and so ask for your money back and/or them to replace the parts or upgrade as you asked (depending on how much you think you can squeeze out of them).

By following these steps, you are almost assured of not being ripped of when you hand over your PC to the stores for an 'upgrade'.

The simplest way of always knowing what is in you PC is to download a PC Auditor. I regularly use Belarc Advisor, which is a small, free, downloadable program, available from
http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html
Then every month, or when necessary (ie. before it goes into repair/upgrade and after it comes out) I print out a hard copy to tell me exactly what is in my PC, what licences and keys there are, and what updates have been added.

Hope that this info helps.

Len.
England

buy a used good camara with a fast shuter speed.then with the money you save get a macro lens for your flowers and a wide angle for your land scape the lens it comes with will handl all the rest alan.

Personally, I have a hard time trusting stores and would never leave my computer alone with them to do an upgrade. They may use the cheapest components available. I think I would only trust the computer manufacturer.

There are 3 ways I know of in which you can find out what hardware components have been installed in your computer. In Windows, the Device Manager will list each component. You can also go into the CMOS setup utility by pressing a certain key sequence when the power first turns on. Some of the most common key to push include Delete, F2, and F10. There are others. But it varies with each system. Read the users manual to find out which keys to press. The third way to tell what has been installed is to open the computer up and read the labels on the components. You might want to check the terms of your warranty before opening your computer so you don't void the warranty.

If possible, I would recommend having the upgrade done when you are purchasing the computer. Have the manufacturer install a larger hard drive and ram. Go for an upgraded video card. There is a lot of sense to upgrading when getting a new computer. The main point is that the manufacturers know what is compatible with the system and what works the best. You can also save money if you upgrade at the time of purchase.

If you are the type of person who has the technical skills and are not afraid of opening your computer up, it is quite easy to do the upgrade yourself. This is especially true when installing memory cards. It can be a little tricky when upgrading the video card because many computers come with an integrated video card which needs to be disable in CMOS. Software drivers also need to be installed.

You may also consider building a computer yourself so you can choose the components you want installed. However, you will not be able to purchase any extended service plans if you go this route. You will only have warranties on individual components.

I hope this information is useful to you.

OK, you select components for your computer and don't install them yourself for whatever reason, so how do you know they are what you asked for? BELARC advisor comes first to my mind. When you run the advisor it will inventory your computer and print out a list of all components and software.