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Don Knotts IS Dubya !!!

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Re: Don Knotts IS Dubya !!!

In reply to: Don Knotts IS Dubya !!!

It says I need Quicktime.......no thanks. I have a perfectly good viewer already.

TONI

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Someone doesn't care much about copyright laws.

In reply to: Don Knotts IS Dubya !!!

I guess those can be ignored in a good cause.

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Re: Someone doesn't care much about copyright laws.

In reply to: Someone doesn't care much about copyright laws.

I'm not a copyright attorney, but I believe it's perfectly legal to "sample" copyrighted material as long as you don't exceed a certain length of time per sample. There's also a "fair use" clause which permits use in certain applications as spoofs or parodies.

And at any rate, copyright laws apply to material pirated for commercial use; if you're not selling it or otherwise making a profit - and if you're not "diluting the value" of the original material or the artist (i.e., giving away their stuff to circumvent their ability to sell it, ala Kazaa) - you're free and clear.

I don't think the owners of the copyrights of the material sampled for this spoof could prevail in lawsuits even if they wanted to, based on the above legal loopholes.

My beef with the clip is that it makes Dubya look so unrealistically intelligent and level-headed...

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Sample perhaps, but not to make a whole video out of

In reply to: Re: Someone doesn't care much about copyright laws.

'samples'. I've never heard of fair use including 'spoofs or paradies'. Who told you that 'copyright laws apply to material pirated for commercial use'? Tell that to the hundreds who are being sued for downloading copyrighted material for their own personal use.

Loopholes? I thought the blue side was all about ethics, and integrity, and honesty, and all that. I guess not.

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Re: Sample perhaps, but not to make a whole video out of

In reply to: Sample perhaps, but not to make a whole video out of

"Tell that to the hundreds being sued for downloading copyrighted material for personal use"

after I clearly wrote:

"if you're not "diluting the value" of the original material or the artist (i.e., giving away their stuff to circumvent their ability to sell it, ala Kazaa)"

Read much?

"Loopholes? I thought the blue side was all about ethics, and integrity, and honesty, and all that."

Watch the DeLay debacle. Look at the Republican-engineered gerrymandered districts, and then talk to me about ethics and integrity.

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I see you like to take things out of context. One can prove

In reply to: Re: Sample perhaps, but not to make a whole video out of

anything that way. I said:

Who told you that 'copyright laws apply to material pirated for commercial use'? Tell that to the hundreds who are being sued for downloading copyrighted material for their own personal use.

You ridiculed:

"Tell that to the hundreds being sued for downloading copyrighted material for personal use"

as if the statement was not prefaced by 'commercial use'.

As far as ethics are concerned:

1. You don't try to rationalize something because the other side is doing it. That's why its called ethics.

2. Any first year media student knows you can't lift an entire video from someone else's work. That's both illegal and unethical.

But then the blues have the intellectual and moral high ground, right?

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Re: I see you like to take things out of context. One can pr

In reply to: I see you like to take things out of context. One can prove

Exactly. I said that it is illegal to download or otherwise misuse copyrighted material for the purpose of depriving the artist of his or her fair royalties (i.e., "diluting the value), as in Kazaa and other media-"sharing" utilities.

Copyright specifically has to do with commercial applications; you may not steal works that you would otherwise have to buy (as in pirating whole songs or movies), because that deprives the artist of their due income - their royalties on your purchase. You may not copy a complete work and sell it, because that similarly deprives the artist... although it is implicit that most works come with a "single-user" license - you can re-sell a used CD or book, but you can't reproduce it and sell multiple copies. If you make a new, original creation from selected snips, however, you are not depriving the original property owner because what you have created does not deprive them of income.

And you're absolutely right... you can't lift an entire video, nor did whoever put together this amusing piece do so. But you can string together selected, short exerpts to create a new, original piece. It's been done in the past very successfully and commercially, and it is in no way a breach of ethics; it is a time-honored, respected and protected practice. If the artist had posted an entire Don Knotts flick, or even a continuous, substantial part of one, that would be copyright infringement. However, the Fair Practice doctrine as it applies to parodies gives broad leeway even in this.

That is to say, although Don Knotts and/or the owners of the properties from which these bits were snipped would have a very difficult time proving copyright infringement, if you were to copy the whole "Dubya" parody and attempt to sell it, whoever compiled it would have a much better case against you.

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Step 1. Return to my previous post. Step 2. Reread.

In reply to: Re: I see you like to take things out of context. One can pr

This is a repeat of the same kind of stuff.

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Here is a 'fair use' decision that takes direct aim at your

In reply to: Re: I see you like to take things out of context. One can pr

claims:

Dr. Seuss v. Penguin Books

The Ninth Circuit has very recently taken a much more skeptical view of the transformative value of an alleged parody in Dr. Seuss Enterprises v. Penguin Books. Briefly, defendant published an illustrated book called The Cat NOT In the Hat, which retold the incidents of the O.J. Simpson murder trial in a verbal and graphic style admittedly "inspired by" plaintiff's well-known children's book The Cat In the Hat. Overcoming defendant's fair use arguments, Seuss obtained a preliminary injunction in March 1996, and on March 27, 1997, the Ninth Circuit affirmed.

Like the Southern District in Leibovitz, the Ninth Circuit began its fair use discussion by carefully examining defendant's claim that its work was a legitimate parody of Seuss' The Cat In the Hat. Also like Leibovitz, the Dr. Seuss court relied heavily on Campbell, but concluded that the work at issue was not a parody of the Seuss original because it did not ridicule or criticize the prior work, but merely copied the work's best known elements "to get attention, or maybe even to avoid the drudgery of working up something fresh."13 As a result, defendant could show no particular need to use the Seuss work to make its point. Borrowing a distinction from Campbell, the Ninth Circuit concluded that such a use may qualify as "satire," but it is not sufficiently targeted at the original to warrant special consideration as a parody.


BTW, supplying evidence to back up assertions is a commonly accepted form of discourse. Undocumented claims are little more than that.

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Re: Here is a 'fair use' decision that takes direct aim at y

In reply to: Here is a 'fair use' decision that takes direct aim at your

Entirely different situation. The "Dubya" piece does not borrow the style, plot, unique syntax, theme, or anything else from any existant film or video; it merely uses snippets to construct a new and unique work, collage style. I don't believe there's case law regarding this type of use (nor do I plan to spend the time to research it). simply because it is such a commonly-used and obviously protected creative technique that there has been little or no controversy about it. However, just like "What's Up Tiger Lily?" (which, I believe, won or was nominated for a number of awards), which takes clips of old Japanese flicks and redubs them to make a whole new plot, or "Mystery Science Theater", which uses huge parts of existing sci-fi flicks, the device has been used again and agaiin without apparent challenge.

It's easy to find case law proving you can't drive through a red light, because that's a frequantly ticketed offense, and therefore well documented. It's more difficult to find such a precedent proving you can drive through a green light, simply because so few such cases have come to court.

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The case simply refutes your earlier claim;

In reply to: Re: Here is a 'fair use' decision that takes direct aim at y

'There's also a "fair use" clause which permits use in certain applications as spoofs or parodies.'

which, frankly, was your strongest arguement. The case shows that this is neither a spoof nor a parady of the films which were 'sampled', and therefore is not 'fair use' of the material.

If you don't want to do the research to back up an assertion, don't make the assertion.

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Re: PS

In reply to: PS

Well, I can't say this hasn't been fun, but I really do have better things to do with my time than sit and argue inconsequential nonsense. I'm in the advertising business and I deal with the ins and outs of copyright law all the time. It would be really embarassing (not to mention expensive) to leave a client on the losing end of a lawsuit.

I suggest you use your incomparable research skills to find out who owns the rights to Don Knotts clips in question, and then send them the link. If you get a response, I'd be amus... uh... interested to see what they have to say. Ciao for naio.

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(NT) (NT) Good luck to your clients.

In reply to: Re: PS

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Re: Sample perhaps, but not to make a whole video out of

In reply to: Sample perhaps, but not to make a whole video out of

fair use including 'spoofs or paradies'

I'm not certain, but I think that is the clause used to excuse JimJabs use of the tune "This land is your land".

And I've heard there was an exception before, but I'm totally ignorant on the extent and exact definition of what is allowable.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
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Re: Sample perhaps, but not to make a whole video out of

In reply to: Re: Sample perhaps, but not to make a whole video out of

"And I've heard there was an exception before, but I'm totally ignorant on the extent and exact definition of what is allowable."

Yeah, so's kiddpeat. You look at the "Dubya" video, you'll see that not a single snip is longer than about 5 seconds, and not a single one contains what's called the "heart" of the work it comes from, i.e., the main plot or theme. That makes "Dubya" a whole, new, original work. It's like making a collage out of pieces of prints of other artworks; it uses small pieces of copyrighted material, but it does not compromise the integrity of the original works, nor does it provide a means for someone who might have purtchased the original work to obtain it without paying the royalty. That makes it entirely legal and ethical.

Woody Allen did much the same thing in "What's Up Tiger Lily?", and you can buy greeting cards in any store that show scenes from popular old movies and put humerous captions to them. "Mystery Science Theater" did it too, with long clips from old sci-fi flicks.

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See my PS. This guy talks a good game, but can't and

In reply to: Re: Sample perhaps, but not to make a whole video out of

won't back up what he claims. He just wants to sling gratuitous insults while claiming to be knowledgeable.

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Re: Sample perhaps, but not to make a whole video out of

In reply to: Re: Sample perhaps, but not to make a whole video out of

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(NT) (NT) As satire, it's a dud.

In reply to: Don Knotts IS Dubya !!!

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True, Don Knotts was never a very funny guy but Dubya

In reply to: (NT) As satire, it's a dud.

isn't funny at all.

Rob Boyter

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Actually Don Knotts is very funny

In reply to: True, Don Knotts was never a very funny guy but Dubya

on his own. But that piece is boring and lame.

Keep on hating.

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Re: Actually Don Knotts is very funny

In reply to: Actually Don Knotts is very funny

i don't hate gw but i loathe his policies and his relinquishing power to the neocons who took us to war in iraq

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