Speakeasy forum

General discussion

Documented information about Israel & "Palestine"

Some of this I vaguely remembered from high school, but there is a wealth of information here that I didn't know at all....like the British involvement.....

A large amount of information about the history of Israel and the politically concocted history of "Palestine".....I wonder how many people actually know any of this because liberals like Jimmy Carter (a total bigot) and Bill Clinton and Obama keep the lies going as they sympathize with the Arab nations and take sides in an issue that began with the "civilized" British...


http://www.indaweb.com/oil/editorialopinion/tzemach.news.service01l.htm

Discussion is locked
You are posting a reply to: Documented information about Israel & "Palestine"
The posting of advertisements, profanity, or personal attacks is prohibited. Please refer to our CNET Forums policies for details. All submitted content is subject to our Terms of Use.
Track this discussion and email me when there are updates

If you're asking for technical help, please be sure to include all your system info, including operating system, model number, and any other specifics related to the problem. Also please exercise your best judgment when posting in the forums--revealing personal information such as your e-mail address, telephone number, and address is not recommended.

You are reporting the following post: Documented information about Israel & "Palestine"
This post has been flagged and will be reviewed by our staff. Thank you for helping us maintain CNET's great community.
Sorry, there was a problem flagging this post. Please try again now or at a later time.
If you believe this post is offensive or violates the CNET Forums' Usage policies, you can report it below (this will not automatically remove the post). Once reported, our moderators will be notified and the post will be reviewed.
Collapse -
Re: an issue that began with the "civilized" British...

In reply to: Documented information about Israel & "Palestine"

From YOUR link

There is no such thing as a Palestinian Arab nation . . . Palestine is a name the Romans gave

Romans?.....Like in "ANCIENT Rome"?...When there was a Roman Empire?

NOT the "civilized" British.

Collapse -
I knew you would start there.....

In reply to: Re: an issue that began with the "civilized" British...

BUT....the civilized British took up the anti-Jewish mantel during a time when the UK was supposedly a world leader and had actual influence.....not ancient Rome who only knew how to invade and conquer. Keep reading and you'll find that the Brits started the isolation of Jews long before Germany and other countries did....those other countries took it further.

And now those countries are seeing the results a hundred years later because they didn't see far enough in advance (as most liberal attitudes prove over and over) what their actions/decisions cause.

Israel is a legal and world-wide recognized State.....Palestine is a self-proclaimed 'country' and has no business being in Israel to begin with and has a terrorist group as its 'government'. They are no more than squatters but Israel gets blamed at the UN (consisting of mostly Arab countries or countries that sympathize with Arabs) and now here in the USA for every conflict because they protect themselves from Hamas.

Collapse -
Response

In reply to: I knew you would start there.....

Palestine has never existed . . . as an autonomous entity. There is no language known as Palestinian.

America never existed...there is no language known as "American"
Collapse -
RE: I knew you would start there....

In reply to: I knew you would start there.....

So I took your "bait"?

Collapse -
RE: the politically concocted history of "Palestine"

In reply to: Documented information about Israel & "Palestine"

Collapse -
Actually, I've read that the name developed from

In reply to: Documented information about Israel & "Palestine"

a nomad people known as the Philistines. The biblical story of David and Goliath mentions them. It wasn't an area but a roaming band of bellicose people whose territory shifted as they moved. Quite a number of stories are written about such roaming groups of people and many suggest they were just migrants looking to settle in lands where food was more plentiful. I've read the same about the Vikings that left their homes due to overpopulation and lack of food. They didn't come to raid Ireland for it's gold and take it back home. They raided the missions to pay for their further journeys. They were looking for a place to settle...and settle they did. Such are the many stories behind the scenes of war and strife. I wasn't there so cannot confirm or deny any of them.

Collapse -
The maps prove my point

In reply to: RE: an issue that began with

Israel was 'given' the entire area, including Sinai, Gaza, West Bank, and Golan Heights beginning in 1869. (some of the maps refer to the land as "Palestine" but most refer to it as Israel) Little by little wars have forced Israel into agreements that was nothing more than a 'land take-away' in order to have 'peace' by Arabs and the UN, just to have more demands made on them. Israel has rightfully fought back against that land grab since 1967. In 1976, "Palestinians" held 'free' elections, under Carter's push for 'democracy' in that area....however, the people voted in a terrorist group as their government, and as BO loves to say 'elections have consequences'. If the people aren't happy with their living conditions, by complaining to the UN constantly about 'human rights violations' as their people blow themselves up killing Israelis and Israel retaliates, then they have no one to blame but themselves. Have new elections and get rid of Hamas and perhaps Israel would be more inclined to have serious peace talks. Until then, Israel and its people won't be calmly walking into the ovens again any time soon, and who can blame them other than liberals?

Collapse -
RE:The maps prove my point

In reply to: The maps prove my point

You're welcome.

Collapse -
(NT) So you actually agree with me....great news

In reply to: RE:The maps prove my point

Collapse -
(NT) Is that how you say "thank you"?

In reply to: So you actually agree with me....great news

Collapse -
RE: Little by little wars have forced Israel into agreement

In reply to: The maps prove my point

Little by little wars have forced Israel into agreements that was nothing more than a 'land take-away'

Little by little wars have forced Native Americans into agreements that was nothing more than a 'land take-away'
Collapse -
Eventually

In reply to: RE: Little by little wars have forced Israel into agreement

they were also compensated for their 'losses' (remember that most were also nomadic and didn't actually OWN the lands) and now govern themselves separately from local, state, and federal government. Your example is a far cry from Israel being given an entire State of their own and then having to give parts of their own land to people who want them dead as a concession for 'peace' because OTHER country leaders demanded it.

Collapse -
RE: remember that most were also nomadic and didn't actually

In reply to: Eventually

remember that most were also nomadic and didn't actually OWN the lands)

They could be all "nomadic" and OWN ALL the land...AS a bunch of nomads. They were here before the "white man"...their "land" was taken from them by force.

they were also compensated for their 'losses'

Last month, the US justice and interior departments announced a $1 billion settlement over nearly 56 million acres of Indian land held in trust by Washington but exploited by commercial interests for timber, farming, mining and other uses with little benefit to the tribes.

The attorney general, Eric Holder, said the settlement "fairly and honourably resolves historical grievances over the accounting and management of tribal trust funds, trust lands and other non-monetary trust resources that, for far too long, have been a source of conflict between Indian tribes and the United States."


I know you disagree with everything Eric Holder says, on this you are in agreement?

They WERE also compensated for their 'loses'? Compensated by "holding in trust"? Compensated but exploited? How does that work?
Collapse -
The tribes

In reply to: RE: remember that most were also nomadic and didn't actually

for many years have had separate self-governing, but you failed to mention that. The settlement has been going on for years, long before Holder and this administration, JP.....it took many years for both sides to come to agreement, but, as I said, eventually, they were compensated to their satisfaction. The lands, etc. were held in trust during those discussions and terms so that NEITHER party could dispose of the lands, much like a mechanic's lien against someone's personal property holds up a sale of a house.

If you ask American Indians themselves, they will tell you that NO ONE owned the lands.....they traveled much like animals migrate all over the country to follow the food and water sources. They never 'settled' in one spot.

ISRAEL, on the other hand, was GIVEN their own country and other world leaders forced them into giving parts of it up as concessions during 'peace' talks....and it has never been in Israel's interest or favor.

Collapse -
So you think that it's not right

In reply to: The tribes

that someone that was "given" something(land), be required to "give something"(land) up?

ISRAEL, on the other hand, was GIVEN their own country

This land was 'taken" from others before it was 'given"

This land that was "given", was it like China is doing now...creating a man made island in the South Seas? I don't think so.

Collapse -
As usual, you are ignoring the issue itself

In reply to: So you think that it's not right

Trans-Jordan and Egypt voluntarily gave up small sections of land they 'owned' in order for Israel to have its own country......it wasn't TAKEN from them. NO ONE took land from the American Indians because they didn't own it to begin with. However, because they were displaced, they were eventually compensated in many ways, and they actually AGREED to it. Israel, was FORCED to give up parts of its own land by other country leaders in order to have 'peace'......that has NEVER come.....so why shouldn't they have the right to take it back, even if it's via settlements they construct?

Unless you can come up with something sensible to discuss further rather than your normal babble for the sake of babble, I won't be back.

(By the way, how many Native Eskimos did Canada displace in order to create YOUR country?....were they ever compensated for it?)

Collapse -
RE: By the way?

In reply to: As usual, you are ignoring the issue itself

(By the way, how many Native Eskimos did Canada displace in order to create YOUR country?....were they ever compensated for it?)

Is that another way of saying...you don't want to talk about the treatment of Native Americans.

Truth and Reconciliation Commission: By the numbers

And

Canada’s treatment of aboriginals was shameful

The British promised the natives occupancy of the land between the Ohio River and the Great Lakes, even as they signed the same territory over to the successful American Revolutionists (somewhat as, 135 years later, the British promised Palestine, then occupied by the Turks, simultaneously to the Jews and the Arabs. Selling the same real estate to two different buyers at the same time is complicated on every continent).

our relations with the native people stayed largely clear of the violence so fabled in American history

Once the white men were indisputably preeminent in this continent, administration of native affairs was largely unsatisfactory, frequently corrupt, and sometimes brutal.


NO ONE took land from the American Indians because they didn't own it to begin with

In their mind, THEY did own it...collectively......

IF they (nomads) can't/didn't own land...how can a bunch of WHITE nomads lay claim to land?

By sticking a flag in the ground and 'claiming it as theirs"?

Come on Toni...fess up...the truth shall set you free...

Collapse -
The "white" nomads weren't

In reply to: RE: By the way?

going West to continue to be nomads....they intended to 'settle' the lands permanently since NO ONE owned it already. Native Americans were TRUE nomads traveling, as I said, the same as migratory species that followed the food and water depending on the seasons.

In THEIR mind, they NEVER owned the land....it belonged to GOD and NATURE. They were way better at conserving than 'we' were because we were totally ignorant of migration, but that has nothing to do with ownership. And, yes....stakes in the ground were the acceptable norms for settlements.

You refuse to see the truth and therefore you won't be set free any time soon.........and Canada did the same to the Natives there by pushing them out in order to lay claim to land that was owned by nobody. Did your country ever compensate THEM?

Bye.......

Collapse -
RE:stakes in the ground were the acceptable norms

In reply to: The "white" nomads weren't

stakes in the ground were the acceptable norms for settlements.

and how many "stakes per acre" were needed?

You plant a flag in Florida and you own Maine?

Collapse -
(NT) Stupid is as stupid does....I'm not playing your game

In reply to: RE:stakes in the ground were the acceptable norms

Collapse -
RE: By the way, how many Native Eskimos

In reply to: As usual, you are ignoring the issue itself

In Canada they prefer to be referred to as "Inuit".

Collapse -
(NT) and still no answer from you

In reply to: RE: By the way, how many Native Eskimos

Collapse -
RE: still no answer from you

In reply to: and still no answer from you

Are you back in the game?

Collapse -
RE: Documented information about Israel & "Palestine"

In reply to: Documented information about Israel & "Palestine"

What is "documented" about an "editorial OPINION"?

Collapse -
(NT) Documented same facts from Wikipedia....you can check that

In reply to: RE: Documented information about Israel & "Palestine"

Collapse -
RE: facts from Wikipedia.

In reply to: Documented same facts from Wikipedia....you can check that

(from YOUR link in OP) Palestine has never existed

One of your responses to me....The maps prove my point .....some of the maps refer to the land as "Palestine"

The "maps prove YOUR point".....

So now you say there was a "land called "Palestine".

YOU can have it both ways, and both ways are correct....Just ask you.

Collapse -
Look at the dates of your maps

In reply to: RE: facts from Wikipedia.

and you will find that Palestine didn't exist until much later, and even then it was removed to rename the total land mass as Israel. Come on, JP....do your homework since you provided the maps that have proved my point. I don't need to have it both ways like you do.

Collapse -
RE: didn't exist until much later,

In reply to: Look at the dates of your maps

You "documented information" claimed in January of 1975 that

Palestine has NEVER existed


"NEVER"...as in ...from the beginning of time UNTIL January of 1975.

Does you responding mean that you're "not done"?

Collapse -
It never existed

In reply to: RE: didn't exist until much later,

just like many other things in the world didn't exist until someone or some group decided it would....and in this case it was because of 'politics' so Israel's land was stolen from them to make a non-existing entity a reality and legitimize a terrorist group...thank Johnson and then Carter and then Clinton again for that. Please note that they were ALL Democrat bleeding heart liberals.

Popular Forums

icon
Computer Newbies 10,686 discussions
icon
Computer Help 54,365 discussions
icon
Laptops 21,181 discussions
icon
Networking & Wireless 16,313 discussions
icon
Phones 17,137 discussions
icon
Security 31,287 discussions
icon
TVs & Home Theaters 22,101 discussions
icon
Windows 7 8,164 discussions
icon
Windows 10 2,657 discussions

GRAMMYS 2019

Here's Everything to Know About the 2019 Grammys

Find out how to watch the Grammy Awards if you don't have cable and more.