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General discussion

Do you think it's fair just to pick on Apple?

Feb 6, 2012 9:22AM PST

To give you some context to this poll, read this blog here:
Would you boycott Apple?

Do you think it is fair for consumers just to pick on Apple for this?

- Yes. (Please explain.)
- No. (Please explain.)
- Don't care. (Why not?)

Discussion is locked

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What About Bangalore?
Feb 7, 2012 12:49PM PST

I'm really getting sick of all of the companies that have moved their manufacturing and support off-shore. The Republicans want to keep giving the wealthy and corporations more tax incentives so they will create more jobs. Unfortunately, they have had the Bush-Era tax breaks for what...12 years now? How many jobs have they created? How many in THIS country. Great. Corporate America gets tax breaks and then they create jobs in China and India. Wait until they start shipping RETAIL jobs overseas. You'll walk into your bank and the "teller" will be a flat-panel screen with someone who you can bearly understand who hasn't a clue about your problem nor gives a damn about it. I'd like to just abandone these companies, but they are all doing it. So who do you turn to when there is nobody left?

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response to Bangalore?
Feb 8, 2012 1:20AM PST

It been over three years since Bush was in office and how long are you guys going to keep bring up the Bush years? So what have you done or even you elected oficial done to stimulate the economy but give us and our children an enormous tax burden.
Companies are forced to go offshore to keep cost down and to compete in the world economy. Apple isn't a American only product. Apple is only trying to compete with the likes of Samsung, HP, Toshiba and the other competition for similiar products. These products are sold world wide and everyone seem so forget Apple employs thousand of people here in the US with enormous salaries. Apple also pays enormous taxes he in the US and in California.
I personally have not owned an Apple product in over 28 years. But it is time to start think clear and not just spew out the same liberal sentenes like a robot.

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Product, not personality
Feb 7, 2012 3:13PM PST

Firstly, as Lee has already mentioned, Foxconn makes motherboards for most PC vendors, not just Apple. Secondly, such work conditions are common everywhere in China, not just at Foxconn. I remember watching the news for a month about six miners trapped in Crandall Canyon mine; I don't think I've ever heard about a Chinese cave-in not involving tens to hundreds of trapped and/or drowned miners! Then there are those who mine for sulfur. I've already outlived the better half of them, including those who manage to avoid getting killed or injured on the job.

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I voted yes for simple reasons.
Feb 7, 2012 3:19PM PST

Apple prides itself on a product that has higher quality that other similar products. Apple products cost 20% more than similar products in Europe and people buy them on the fact that the quality is higher. They can afford to sacrifice a little profit to do what is right. In addition, Apple consistently pushes its vendors to reduce costs with disregard to workers' rights in those factories while maintaining record profits in a recession that are even higher than in times where there was no recession. In addition, in the 90's Apple was happy to portray MS and IBM as the bad guys in a 1984 style commercial while now they do exactly the same thing. It's difficult to boycott the whole industry but if you boycott a single company for specific allegations then the rest will pull inline with what is right. If Apple products were not taking advantage of such conditions I would accept the 20% prim that they add to their products.

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Foxconn should be held accountable not Apple.
Feb 7, 2012 3:25PM PST

I don't use Apple products anyway, nothing to do with FoxConn or anything, it's just I find them very annoyingly restrictive of what I can and can't do with them and despite them appearing to be so good the fact that their are far better devices out there. For example Android tablets that include both Flash and Java, something which Steve Jobs denied Apple because he saw these as redundant technology (this could be similar to the same mistake Bill Gates made years ago with 640kb of memory), and because Android OS is available on so many different brands, these different manufacturers are allowed to improve the device above and beyond what Apple offer - for example adding higher resolution cameras, making different size screens, GUI's that work differently depending on what people want. An iPhone and iPad are like the Ford Model T when it comes down to customisation - "You can have it in any colour as long as it's black" - Henry Ford.

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Shame on China government...
Feb 7, 2012 4:41PM PST

In my opinion the bad conditions in China are not the fault of companies investing in the region.
We in Belgium been through that about 100 years ago. I think it is time for China to respect human rights, only that will make a change.

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Yes, it's fair to pick on Apple
Feb 7, 2012 5:18PM PST

They are the ones that gain the most: same factories, same hardware, but a price that's usually twice more than the PC products. They are the ones that claim that their product are the absolute best in any way.
It's simple: bigger the lie = bigger the blame.

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Apple is the primary target because they are so successful
Feb 7, 2012 5:20PM PST

Just as people focus on Wal-Mart because they are the largest retailer, the NY Times and others focus on Apple because they are one of the most successful, if not the most successful, electronics manufacturers.

It is obviously impractical to boycott all products made in China. The most effective strategy is to target the largest, most powerful and influential mfr -- Apple. If they can be convinced to set the example then others may follow.

What's really needed are tariffs to level the playing field so that companies that play by the rules and keep their manufacturing here in the US are able to compete with companies that mfr their products in countries that have weak to non-existent labor and environmental laws.

Without tariffs the "giant sucking sound" of jobs going to the lowest bidder will continue. Huge multi-national corporations will continue to play consumers in developed countries against workers in Third World countries, exploiting both and pocketing the profits.

My guess is we will never see tariffs because corporations do not want them and corporations rule the world, including the US government. Remember, "Corporations are people my friend."

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Apple Isn't the Only Bad One in the Barrel
Feb 7, 2012 5:26PM PST

Apple isn't the only computer company which sources components from sweat shops and to single them out would be both unfair and do very little to right this unethical wrong. Only if a boycott plus an attendant publicity campaign involved all companies known to be involved in this this unsavory practice would it begin to have an effect. And don't minimize the effect of public opinion in shaping corporate behavior - most are human beings and want to be loved not hated.
Manufacturers in the USA must by law adhere to basic standards of employment so that if I had a choice between a cheap sweat shop product and a more expensive one sourced ethically I would tend to plump for the latter both because it was produced ethically and because its components were probably sourced from within this economy, not needing to be imported.

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Of course it's not fair.
Feb 7, 2012 7:59PM PST

Nothing can be changed in a totalitarian society like China unless it comes from the capital. Even Apple, with all its money, is in no position to tell the Government of China that its people have rights as long as the Chinese government is more interested in expanding its own power and wealth at their expense.
If you think back to the "Great Leap Forward' when the death toll from famine and starvation shocked the world, you must recognize that current conditions are mild by comparison. Even now, there are people in the USA who speak admiringly of Chairman Mao's accomplishment of "dragging China into the 20th Century" by knowingly starving millions.
When the USA chose "to engage with China", we took the chance that we would be drawn in situations in which we would find ourselves complicit in the destructive actions of a totalitarian state.
Apple must tread lightly in its efforts to improve the lives of Chinese workers. One wrong move and Bejing is quite capable of throwing Apple out of the country and the workers will have only their own government to deal with.

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Yes
Feb 7, 2012 10:21PM PST

If you tell me to my face you do not care about the country that you started up in, and do not care what we say. I think that any company anywhere should be boycotted and taxed on products going both ways.

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Grow up and get a real job.
Feb 7, 2012 11:08PM PST

No it is not fair to boycott Apple or any other company. It is just plain supply and demand. If all these so called concerned people really care they wouldn't use these products. It is okay with me go back to the dark ages.
Just like all the wall street protesters sitting around using their smart phones, pads etc to occupy their time while allegedly trying to protest the system that brought them all the necessities of their life.
This company in China has thousand of applicants trying to get hired for these high paid jobs.

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Who says what's fair?
Feb 8, 2012 12:28AM PST

I see many posts saying that "it's not fair" to pick on Apple. Who says? Who says its fair that Apple are allowed to do what they are doing? Apple doesn't care if it is fair. Pick on Apple who already have the best profits in a recession and wait to see how soon the others will change their policies. Who better than to pick on someone who can handle the punishment. If you pick on a company that can't handle the punishment then you give an advantage to Apple who are already making profits. If you punish Apple then they start to worry about their already excessive profits and the other manufacturers fall into line soon after when Apple does what is right.

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Obviously
Feb 8, 2012 1:17AM PST

You must not be reading these posts you're seeing then, because then you might know that Apple does not own FoxConn, they don't manage FoxConn, and they don't have say about what goes on there outside of the actual product they have manufactured there. It's not fair for us to say what is an isn't fair working conditions in China, because maybe those people appreciate the job. What everyone here is wanting Apple to do is snatch their business away from FoxConn, possibly causing these people unemploent, and how fair is that? These people are not chained up in a rickety old warehouse; it's a factory, and they walk in there on their own two legs every day to do a job they get paid for doing. In 2004, when I worked for Cummins Deisel, we were mandated 7 days a week, and many of us still worked overtime on top of that, either by coming in early or staying late, but ultimately we decided if we wanted to do it or not by either keeping our jobs and following suit, or by finding a different job, just as these people can do. No-one called what we had to do a sweatshop or slave labor; it's just how it was, and we were damn happy to have the money. I believe the people in the US need to clean their own houses before they go giving another county the white glove treatment and telling them where to start cleaning up.

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Apple DOES have a say in what Foxconn does.
Feb 8, 2012 3:28PM PST

Apple is a huge customer for Foxconn. They have a say by choosing another supplier and to tell them why. China has an unfair advantage by allowing such conditions to prevail in their country. If you start a union in their country then you will face imprisonment or worse. People in those companies are committing suicide because of those conditions. I doubt the factory conditions in any western country compare to those in China. Of-course they aren't chained to their desk (actually some workers in China and India are) but when you have to provide for your family and their are no other options they what would you do. We didn't boycott Google when it was the correct time we should boycott Apple now it is the right time. If you don't care about the people in China because they take jobs away from other countries then just make sure they don't have an unfair advantage by allowing companies to exploit the people who work there. By giving the message to Foxconn you give the same message to other factories. By giving the message to Apple you give the same message to the others. Boycott Apple you help your country's economy, you imporve the conditions for people less fortunate than ourselves, you move jobs back to western countries, you force China to work by the same rules as the western countries and I'm sure I could find even more reasons.

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AMEN! That's been my point all along. n/t
Feb 9, 2012 2:23AM PST

n/t

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No. It is NOT fair to pick on Apple
Feb 8, 2012 2:32AM PST

The Federal Government put Apple and others in this situation when they gave businesses tremendous tax breaks for moving overseas. What was our government thinking when this was done?

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Think positive. Act locally.
Feb 8, 2012 2:33AM PST

As it happens, my computer was assembled right here on Canada's West Coast, by a friend, while I did some extensive fiberglass work on a vehicle project for him. Of course the computer has many, most, or all Chinese made parts, inevitably. Buying and trading locally circulates wealth amongst real people, and makes it more likely that some will return to you. Otherwise, it goes to the corporate One Per-Centers and vanishes into their multiple mansions, Maseratis and offshore accounts. Think with your head and your heart rather than football game commercials.

Leonard

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Boycotting Apple
Feb 8, 2012 4:10AM PST

This country was built on "CAPITALISM". I do not have the solution but one would think that with our great minds and abilities in this country someone could figure out a way to keep our manufacturing here at home. Until we do, we deserve to loose profits to the BEST provider of whatever is needed to achieve the most success.

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Shared Wealth
Feb 8, 2012 7:48AM PST

When we consider that so much of the world lives far below the poverty line, a great number lives in poverty, and the bulk of the remainder need larger houses to store their possessions, there must be something wrong with the world and its economy. The World Bank has loaned great sums of money to poverty stricken countries, on substantial interest. If the country climbs up the scale a little. the "profit" is sucked in by the bank. These countries will never be able to break the "debt" cycle and the banks will gever get their money.
It would be more honest for the World Bank to do the business thing, forgive the debt and stop fudging the books.
I am not suggestng that we should go back to slave labour, but we should be prepared to live more simply so others might simply live. This includes large corporations down to the average person on Americas and Australias soil.
What a pity Africa's poverty stricken nations (partly through drought and the rest because of Tyrant Rule), don't have oil. If they did, our brave governments would come to the rescue, just as they do in the Middle East.(that's the cynic in me)
Please, forget the wealth of America, Australia, (thats me) and adopt a mind shift that has a world view. If we did so, I am sure that the Asian worker could be paid a little more, Apple and all the other big companies could charge a little less for their product, and (Perish the thought) our workers could sacrifice just a lttle to help right things that are disproportionately wrong on this old planet!

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Price of Apple products
Feb 8, 2012 5:26AM PST

The question is, if the workers are so badly paid, Apple must be getting its products made for a very low price. Why then are their products so expensive? Are the shareholders or the company highfliers reaping the benefits because it sure isn't the consumers. At least the other manufacturers using Foxcomm are passing on the manufacturing savings (immoral though they may be) to the consumer.

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Boycott Apple
Feb 8, 2012 10:00AM PST

The subject of working conditions is the responsiblity of the gov't of the country that all manufacturers buy from.
Be selective, if you may, to selecting from companies that use suppliers with good working ethics, if you can.

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China's responsibility
Feb 8, 2012 10:33AM PST

I do not understand how anyone can blame Apple or any other purchaser of goods as to the conditions under which the goods are made. The only ones to control this are the governments where the manufacturing places are.

Corporate greed? No, people greed including the purchasers who are more interested in playing games.

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Yes, I do.
Feb 8, 2012 1:33PM PST

Though Apple makes a superior product, I've boycotted them for essentially manufacturing 100% of their products overseas; primarily in China. I've never cared for China's policies toward human rights, or their unethical business practices. And I think it unethical for Apple to move it's manufacturing off-shore for the purpose of avoiding taxes, and at the loss domestic jobs. I think we should all consider the impact our purchasing a product made over seas has on the US economy, and that we're essentially supporting a country that generally opposes US foriegn policy, and supports atrocious violent acts against human rights such as what is occuring in Syria, and what happened in Tibet. It's time we look beyond our self gratification, and consider the global and domestic impact of our purchasing habits!

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censorship
Feb 8, 2012 1:34PM PST

I belive that the only acceptable form of censorship is economic.If you don't like something about a product don't buy it.If your right a lot of other people will follow suite and the product will get changed.Apple is in it for the buck,if you don't buy they don't get the bucks.If they don't get the bucks they will change, what ever it takes to make a buck.What ever Apple was in the distant past it has become a marketing company.We as Americans lose jobs to the Chinese everyday.Our debt goes because we have sent so much work to China we can't afford to pay our own bills.This case is not the worst of it.The Chinese can't use slave labor to make high technology by treaty.However they can use slaves to make clothing,furniture,sinks,etc..Our labor unions got started over these very same issues in the 19th century in American factories.The factories would pay the workers almost nothing and then justify it by letting the workers live in the factories.How can we condone this behavior?

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No!
Feb 8, 2012 4:56PM PST

I am not an Apple user or fan but the whole damn PC/Apple cluge is manufactured in China by some organization there or perhaps to a lesser extent in another off shore entity. So, lay off Apple or Dell or HP, etc. I've got some personal grudges against MS (my participation in W7 beta test aka Vista...which I paid for), but I've got to give them a pass, as well.

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Pick on Apple? How about give them a thankyou card!
Feb 9, 2012 12:08AM PST

If the people that worked in these type of places, were held at gunpoint, feed human feces for lunch, and raped on the way in and way out, you might have my attention. These people are NOT being forced to do this. They might not have dental insurance, end of the year Christmas parties, or fly around on a corporate jet drinking chardonnay, but this is an option for them to eat.

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You try working there!
Feb 9, 2012 4:27PM PST

Between January and November 2010 there were 18 suicides at Foxconn. Apple makes the best profits from those. Why don't you give Apple a thankyou card right now and while you're at it send your Freedom Fries thankyou to the families of those dead workers? Leading up to a suicide do you know how much stress goes on in a suicide family? You can either be cold and go to your grave knowing you did nothing to help another human being or you can do something and leave some human values with your family. Perhaps a day will come when you contemplate the same that happened to those employees but by then you will all be so desensitized that they will give your employer a thankyou card for pushing you to suicide. Mean while your familiy wil be without a father and an income and they will lose their house and be out on the streets. I hope you and your familiy never endure that but only the thought of the consequences make people think twice. Otherwise don't complain if the US government doesn't help people in trouble.

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apple - poster boy
Feb 9, 2012 9:37AM PST

Apple is the poster boy and whilst other companies are doing similar things most people do not know or relate to them. Apple has the financial clout garnered from a great product and the backs of chinese workers paid a pittance.

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I never bought a computer! I always build my own.
Feb 9, 2012 2:36PM PST

This way I don't have to complain about quality or problems or warranty because I can get the best parts that are available and I don't have to pay a CEO for that.