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Do you think it's fair just to pick on Apple?

by Lee Koo (ADMIN) CNET staff/forum admin / February 6, 2012 9:22 AM PST

To give you some context to this poll, read this blog here:
Would you boycott Apple?

Do you think it is fair for consumers just to pick on Apple for this?

- Yes. (Please explain.)
- No. (Please explain.)
- Don't care. (Why not?)

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Don't care
by rd4man / February 7, 2012 2:25 AM PST

It won't change corporate greed, regardless of what I think.

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by Hugafen / February 7, 2012 5:53 AM PST
In reply to: Don't care

Its ot only Apple which has a problem. Other manufature has the same with not western style working conditions. remeber China is a non democratic country which should be left in the cold!!!!!!!!!!

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Actually, I do care but it has two sides.
by Carsto / February 10, 2012 1:45 AM PST
In reply to: Don't care

Of course it's unfair to Apple, they're just the bogey man, one among many. However; since they are high profile, just as well. Good place to start and build the case. Look where Greenpeace started and today it's out of fashion to be anything but GREEN. Same goes for Japan and the whales as it went for South Africa. Finger in the ****. It takes a thread to unravel a jersey. Pull boys!!!

Oh yes rd4man.
There 's a saying that goes something like this; All it needs for evil to triumph is good men to do nothing. You must see what happened to Johannesburg, South Africa. In 1994 passing downtown on the elevated highway I soothed my white fears by denying that such a big city and what it represented could not be destroyed. Five years later I went downtown centre. All it needed was neglect. You know Sandton Square in Sandton City where the stars played tennis? Business fled there.

Corporate greed is not OK since it won't change. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. Ayn Rand said similar in terms of moral man. Speak it. Rudi Giulliano was right when he said not one broken window.

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That wasn't cussing.
by Carsto / February 10, 2012 2:05 AM PST

Seems my spelling got me censored. The story goes there was a small Dutch boy who in late evening discovered a very small leak in a dike. Knowing the danger of small ones becoming big ones, he put his finger in the hole to stop the leak, never thinking of consequences to himself. Remembering correctly (?) his worried parents found him and he became a hero.

I stopped my own comment, yet reading some mails further down, discovered I was right. It's amazing how the ease of our lives and the terrible pressures at work will lead us to prevaricate. Had a boss once who said; "If I don't know you, you are OK. If I do, fear, I 've heard too many explanations already".

I call it the South African syndrome. You complain how bad the country is now, but you do nothing to change that, nor do you leave. In psychology it is called regression. A mouse sits on a slightly uncomfortable low current mesh. Every single time he goes for the hole the threshold zaps him with lightning. Guess what he does?

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RE: the censored ****
by btljooz / February 10, 2012 4:47 AM PST
In reply to: That wasn't cussing.

No, they didn't censor me, too! I purposely put four asterisks in a row like that. Wink

Those asterisks are to denote the word d - i - k - e which is synonymous with "levee" and is defined as follows:

1 : an artificial watercourse : ditch

2 a : a bank usually of earth constructed to control or confine water : levee

b : a barrier preventing passage especially of something undesirable

3 a : a raised causeway
b : a tabular body of igneous rock that has been injected while molten into a fissure

As seen the Merriam-Webster dictionary.

Hey, CNet! Get your heads out of your anal cavities!!! Angry

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Special kind of unboycot
by arwkoppen / February 7, 2012 2:26 AM PST

Buy if apple will better working conditions as header for others, coz their prizes are outrageous.

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Do you think it's fair just to pick on Apple?
by mojoryb / February 7, 2012 2:26 AM PST

There's REALLY no need to pick on Apple, or for that matter, any ONE company of the other companies, if only because it's painfully obvious that slave labour still abounds on OUR world, particularly if those that can have an impact turn the other way when the currency is waved in front of their noses!

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When you are the leader...
by altoid1 / February 7, 2012 2:31 AM PST

I'm an Apple user and (very small) stockholder but that doesn't change the fact that as the leading computer/consumer electronics company in the world, Apple ought to show clear leadership on human rights, environmental, and other issues. I won't boycott in part because I like their products but mostly because the HP, or Dell, or whateverPhone is probably made by workers laboring under the same conditions, perhaps even in the same factory. And don't stop at electronics... car parts, clothing, shoes, furniture.... the list goes on and on in which American companies produce things in overseas factories where conditions don't come close to those we expect in domestic factories.

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It would be fair to pick many companies in many countries
by lourdesfer / February 7, 2012 5:03 AM PST

As you said, it does not stop at electronics and not only the list goes on and on in American companies, but also in many other countries. Shame on all of us! Sad

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Not just an electronics problem
by riveresk / February 7, 2012 11:18 PM PST

This isn't just an electronics problem. It isn't even just an American problem. True, my Creative Zen mp3 player, my Sony Reader and my HP laptop are all made in China. Hey, isn't Sony supposed to be Japanese? My desktop, built by a local company in the UK, probably contains Chinese bits too.

This winter I bought a new electric chainsaw. It carries a splendidly German brand name and I guess It may well have been designed by Germans, but do the Germans use German labour to manufacture it? No: it's made in China.

Our big clothes retailer Primark got into trouble for selling garments made in 'Indian sweat-shops'. Terry's chocolate oranges, a Christmas present beloved by the young and many not so young, are no longer made in York. They're made in Poland. The Swiss company CabTec, which makes specialised cabling and switches for all sorts of purposes, including probably the electronic touch controls in your car, closed its German factories and moved production to Hungary.

I'd like to be patriotic and buy goods that really were made in England. Well, my Triumph Bonneville is (mostly), but I have to conclude that those who are trashing Apple for using foreign labour understand even less about international economics than I do.

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by btljooz / February 7, 2012 7:31 AM PST

Just because you something, you do in deed condone companies who do not respect "human rights, environmental or other issues" because you refuse to vote against such atrocities with your wallet.

It's puds like you who allow companies to NOT "show clear leadership on human rights, environmental and other issues! And these companies COUNT on that! Are y'all so blinded by your own brand of greed that you can't see that? ...Or worse, yet, do y'all just shut your eyes and put your fingers in your ears and scream, "La-la-la-a-la-a-la!"? Confused Y'all just remember, what goes around comes around. Wink

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My bad!
by btljooz / February 7, 2012 9:37 AM PST
In reply to: So,

That should read, "Just because you like something, ......." Blush

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So.....What American company ISN'T manufacturing overseas?
by guardian1935 / February 7, 2012 10:47 AM PST

I remember a number of years back when WalMart was being boycotted by some for the exact same reason. Since, American manufacturing has continued to hemorrage to China, Indonesia, India, Bangledesh, the Phillipines, you name it, and Americans continue to buy these products. Conversely, millions of Americans have been thrown out of work (aided by poor economic policies in Washington, as well), and everyone decries 'unemployment.' The only cure is legislation that puts such a high tariff on goods brought into this country, no matter by whom, that it would be unprofitable to manufacture overseas. The unions would back it, for sure, as more jobs here mean more union members. But then the unions start the ultimately self-defeating practice of increasingly higher and wider benefits for workers, and up go the prices of goods to pay for them. The people complain. Then it becomes cheaper to move back overseas, even if the tariffs are high, and the people will appreciate the lower prices again. But then we're back to high unemployment.

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Definitely NOT fair - just silly
by DougWW / February 7, 2012 2:32 AM PST

If the move was to boycott ALL companies that use the offending practice (or all FoxConn clients) then that might make a bit of sense. But to boycott one or two? Just plain silly.

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Yes, and in addition
by mwooge / February 7, 2012 2:52 AM PST

It's not just manufaturers who want cheap prices, it's the buying public. We want low prices, and if company XYZ requires better working conditions in the plants it buys from, and charges us more, we'll go for cheap and XYZ will go out of business.

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sometimes it's cheap or nothing
by sam8988378 / February 11, 2012 4:15 AM PST
In reply to: Yes, and in addition

I remember talking to a woman who shops at WalMart, the place with a terrible worker policy and which statistically has been shown to lower wages and close businesses in areas where it opens. Why does she shop there? Because she has 3 children and works as a medical assistant, so isn't exactly rolling in money. For her, it's a balancing act. The lower prices at WalMart have kept her kids clothed and she has bought them the necessary electronics to keep her kids on a par with the kids in their schools. All the kids socialize around video games, and she doesn't want her kids to be outcasts. They also do their reports on computers and print them out. She doesn't want hers to be the only ones handing in handwritten work. Yes, she would rather shop at a more socially responsible store, but isn't willing to sacrifice her children's upbringing. I don't think she is the only one in that situation. Apple isn't cheap, and with Android phones being as filled with apps as ipods, there is less social pressure to have an iphone. But boycotts only work if there is an acceptable substitute, and consequences of the boycott are borne by the individual, not by others.

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not Apple's fault
by wyliefool / February 7, 2012 2:32 AM PST

Since you can't actually buy electronics that aren't made in China (without going to some effort to find them) it's highly unfair, and rather pointless. Try finding anything made in Japan anymore--even cameras.
Now, I'm all for companies using ethical subcontractors, but we need to recognize that probably means going outside China. Is anyone in Thailand or Vietnam capable of making an iPad? If not, then Apple isn't actually in any position to pressure its subcontractors to behave better because it can't go elsewhere. If so, then they can say 'shape up or we're out'. Of course, that may mean your iPhone will cost more. It's our obsession w/ getting everything on the cheap that led manufacturing to go to China in the first place. Now we're stuck because there's nothing left here in the US and even Mexico is outbid by China and its huge population of poor workers. Until something changes, that's the way it's going to be.

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Boycott Apple
by papajaime / February 7, 2012 2:33 AM PST

I do boycott Apple for the reason that they charge multiples of what other companies charge. Their margins are pornographic.Yes Foxconn builds other companies stuff, but they are competitive, Apple is propriatary and charges accordingly.

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Apple and Others Guilty
by tqmon / February 7, 2012 2:34 AM PST

Apple is guilty of using factories with no labor protection and unfair pay. Just about every country that has manufacturing contracts in China and many other countries do so because labor is cheap, unorganized and work in early Industrial Revolution conditions. We all want a cheap, cool phone and cheap computers and everything else. The companies that do this want cheap costs and high profit margins. Until we extend Western labor laws to these countries, the workers will continue to work in sub-human conditions, some in near slave-like conditions. It does take a village to make the change.

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Sadly, we've outsourced our entire IT industry
by HetCon / February 7, 2012 2:37 AM PST

I have always tried to "Be American - Buy American," but I can't find any US-made computers. I even checked, which is a great source for American-made products. Given our dependence on IT and computers, I fear that we have already totally screwed ourselves and compromised our nation's security and economy by outsourcing the industry upon which we depend for our very survival. Oops? Blame us, not Apple.

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Apple Boycott
by jimmad02 / February 7, 2012 2:40 AM PST

You can't buy product like those discussed "made in America". USA doesn't product LCD monitors; doesn't produce touch screens, doesn't produce most of the electronic components needed in the computer industry. We have been exporting our pollution and crap jobs for decades, why should Apple be any different? maybe we should add on a pollution export tax and child labor tax to imported products to level the manufacturing playing field. on the other hand, why not Apple? They have clout to demand changes just as McDonald's did in the slaughter industry.

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Quit picking on Apple
by bonstu / February 7, 2012 2:40 AM PST

You cannot have it both ways! If you want lower prices, the products and services will come from foreign suppliers. Employers can't afford American government regulations, restrictions, Obama care, taxes, unions and raw materials. Boycots may help in the short run, help you feel better, but admit it: your paycheck won't stretch much farther.

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by longplainfirstnation / February 7, 2012 2:41 AM PST

Most companies overseas exploit their workers. This is why manufacturing has moved to Asia. I hope the Asian workers stand up and fight for their rights like the Union movement has done in the West. Otherwise expect the same from all the companies. There is no trickling down of wealth if you give corporations breaks they will keep more money and try to become more efficient which usually starts at exploiting their employees. Apple is no different than any other company, if we want quality product with no child labour or blood on our hands we better bring back manufacturing back to North America or impose import taxes so high that it would not be economically sound to ship cheap dangerous toxic Asian crap here.

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No to Apple boycott.
by sueshoe / February 7, 2012 2:42 AM PST

<span style="'font-family:" "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;'>Oh, come on now!<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> Let's all get out our peace sign t-shirts, sing
Cumbayah and turn vegan.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> Having visited
China, I can tell you that the folks working at Foxconn and similar venues are
so much better off than toiling in the fields.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> There is no "welfare" there, and folks are happy just to have a job.

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Boycotting Apple
by Agavedon / February 7, 2012 2:42 AM PST

I think it's a bad idea to boycott any manufacturer. All a boycott would do is raise prices so drastically, most folks wouldn't be able to afford those products. And the problem with these manufacturers wouldn't improve. It's something the Chinese Government would have to get involved with, and that just won't happen. Do you "cut off your nose to spite your face"? Bad Idea.

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re: Do you think it's fair just to pick on Apple?
by BlackPenguin / February 7, 2012 2:45 AM PST

complaining about apple in this is moronic. Saying apple is evil but dell isn't even though dell does the exact same thing, how idiotic can you get. Yes this is a far reaching problem, yes it should be fixed. Just remember your ipod will jump a LONG way in price if this is fixed. Your dell computer or your sony product will jump in price. Considering most people complain about a 5 dollar price hike. I doubt anyone will actually follow through on a boycott of any company. People are greedy, and they don't care. Although I would love to be proven wrong on this.

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by nathan3 / February 7, 2012 2:46 AM PST

No you shouldnt pick on Apple because of working conditions in China, you should pick on China. On the other hand you should browbeat Apple for having their products made over seas, we have a working force here that needs to go back to work, think about our economy, not China. If you want to boycott somebody boycott Hobby Lobby, everything in their stores is made in China. Call your local stores and complain because you cant find anything there made in
U S A.

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Unfair work praactices in Chinese manufacturing
by e3954 / February 7, 2012 2:46 AM PST

This issue has been one repeatedly discussed in diplomatic circles and the US and many other countries have frequently condemned the Chinese government for failing to deal with this. It applies to all facets of manufacturing in China and the remedy has got to involve the government acting to prevent these practices. As long as they fail to deal with these issues through meaningful legislation, so long shall these practices continue. It is unfair to single out certain companies for allowing these practices because in so doing, they fail to address the wider issue prevalent in the whole of the industrial effort in China. Anyway, having one company enabling rules which would reduce or eliminate unfair practices would probably result in them being uncompetitive because their costs would invariably be higher.

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Would you boycott Apple?
by rphunter / February 7, 2012 2:48 AM PST

About 100 years ago, similar working conditions existed in the US, and even more recently in many other parts of what we call the 'Free World'. We solved these problems, and they will do, in time. Progress imposed from outside isn't usually long-standing. Only when people resist tyranny for themselves does it last well. It is China's problem, and they need to solve it. Meanwhile, even if working conditions are lousy, they ARE working, which is better than many in the US who are now NOT working, partly because they 'priced themselves out of the market'.

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Chinese made product boycott
by RLane5852 / February 7, 2012 2:49 AM PST

Personally, I would pay up to a 20% higher cost for products made in the U.S., just so long as the products were not made on a: Monday, Friday, start/finish of Holiday, Super Bowl, or conclusion of party weekend.

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