![]() | Thank you for being a valued part of the CNET community. As of December 1, 2020, the forums are in read-only format. In early 2021, CNET Forums will no longer be available. We are grateful for the participation and advice you have provided to one another over the years. Thanks, CNET Support |
Discussion is locked
expenditure because of lack of money. My sister said, "We don't need money, Daddy. Write them a check!"
What about calculating actual results?
Obama tax increase plan
These include both proposed and enacted changes to the tax code. How well did they work to curb the growing debt?
I don't know...Not at all?
Did their "figuring" match their "assumptions"?
If you are going to make predictions at least make the "alternate facts" ADD UP/ correct MATH.
It thought the term was
Figures don't lie, but Liars can figure.
I guess under Trump.....they can't "figure".
from your own link are of no more value than were those of my link...from 2009, BTW. If figures don't lie, however, all we need to do is look at the before and after graphs of the US debt from then until when Obama left office. Maybe you can find one that shows improvement in that picture but I cannot. Of course there can't be any proof unless the cuts take place and the figures are allowed to roll in over time. This would give us the advantage of hindsight and hindsight is already available for how well the previous president's plan worked.
proof that the numbers they've provided "don't add up", even BEFORE the predicted events have/or haven't taken place?
The Unworkable Math of Trump’s Budget
There appears to be a major problem with the details of Trump’s budget—namely, that it fails to account for the loss of trillions of dollars of revenue that will result from the tax cuts it proposes.
were the figures adding up from the 'assumptions' BO's Obamacare made regarding how many people would sign up and actually pay for it vs people thrown off what they had, forced into something far more expensive, and many choosing to not buy it at all and pay the fine instead or wait to sign up when they actually needed coverage and then drop it again after they are 'fixed/cured'?
What about the 'assumption' made regarding the trillion dollar stimulus regarding infrastructure that never occurred? Or the back to back trillion dollar annual deficits that still has over 44M people on foodstamps while solar panel companies took billions and folded without anything being produced?
One of the things liberals don't want to look at or talk about regarding the cuts to foodstamps and Medicaid in his budget is the fact that most people won't lose any of those benefits because once you eliminate the illegals who are collecting on them, too, there will still be plenty extra to distribute to those really in need because the numbers getting them now will be drastically reduced. All they DO want to say is that Republicans are going to 'kill children by making them starve'....the same crap they pulled with Obamacare and 'throwing Granny off the cliff' or Dem Grayson touting how the Republicans plan is to have you all 'die quickly'. Nobody is buying the garbage anymore.
how the numbers DON'T add up even BEFORE the "assumptions" have "played out".
BEFORE.... during the period of time preceding (a particular event, date, or time)
AFTER....subsequent to and in consequence of
double $700 BILLION accounting BO did for Medicare 'theft' for Obamacare?
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2012/08/15/video-obama-admits-he-cut-billions-from-medicare-to-fund-obamacare-n697940
Not to mention the trillion dollars spent just to set up Federal exchanges for it and quite a few of them NEVER got put into place like Oregon...http://www.politico.com/story/2014/05/obamacare-cost-failed-exchanges-106535 (you love Politico so I made sure to use their article, just for you). So much for millions of people not being able to sign up, and when they COULDN'T through NO fault of their own, they were fined/taxed anyhow for NOT having coverage.
Why is it that Dems/liberals ONLY want to 'do the math' when the math isn't THEIR math?
Speaking of Obamacare...How are YOU making out finding an insurance provider in Virginia?...
ONE of your complaints about Obamacare...providers leaving Virginia....
Health insurance companies say they need large rate increases to cover their costs for individual health plans sold in Virginia next year.
Preliminary rate requests for 2018 recently filed with the State Corporation Commission average a 28 percent increase among the seven companies offering individual plans.
Some major insurance companies, like UnitedHealth Group and Aetna, are pulling out of the Affordable Care Act's insurance exchange in Virginia next year.
It's TheRUMPs fault now?
I don't need Obamacare so not having any choices doesn't affect me and I'm not required/mandated to buy it since I have Medicare and have had it since 1982. I DO have the prescription drug coverage of Medicare Part D. My sister in Ohio has purchased a separate supplemental coverage policy in addition to her Medicare because she has many pre-existing conditions going back to 1980 that needed addressing over the last two years. She had no health insurance until two years ago other than Worker's Compensation that would cover only her back issues going back to 1980 and it was work related.
What has any of your questions have to do with the topic at hand? The rate increase quoted in your link doesn't bother to mention that BO and the Dems were aware that the insurance companies were going to announce those increases for 2018 during the first week of November (just before the election) and BO had tried to put pressure on them to hold off on that announcement until after the election so it wouldn't influence the Dem vote.
in existence anymore so they don't have to BE in the exchange and go back to being privatized. They aren't leaving the STATE, JP....they are leaving Obamacare. There IS a difference and most insurers left during BO's reign and more announced last year before the election that they would leave this year. You can't have health coverage if there are no insurers to choose from even IF the law mandates you buy it, JP. Do your homework and look up how many States or counties only have ONE insurer already.....if that insurer pulls out of Obamacare, there is NOTHING for people to purchase but would still be fined by the IRS for not having any (except Trump already told the IRS to NOT fine people anymore).
You continuously bring up the fact that I complained about insurers leaving Virginia.....but always neglect to mention that they were leaving Obamacare. If you're going to spin a story, JP, at least get the facts right.
what you just wrote? AND I responded that there weren't enough young/healthy people in Virginia, required to buy insurance, to support the sick/elderly in Virginia to make it profitable for insurers to stay in Virginia.
There are PLENTY of young/healthy people, JP.....The PROBLEM with Obamacare was that the fine/tax was a couple of hundred bucks a YEAR to NOT buy it compared to hundreds TO buy it by mandate, and those young/healthy and SMART people chose to tell BO to stick his mandate where the sun doesn't shine.
Insurance was ALWAYS profitable in ALL of the States when people bought it privately, JP.....AND they could purchase a plan that suited their needs without having to ALSO pay for crap they DIDN'T need (such as contraceptives for someone who is already well beyond the child bearing age). It's no longer profitable when ONLY those with pre-existing conditions are the main groups looking to buy it.
Do you even have a sense of humoUr....
In another thread you agreed with Daffyd Sometimes Speakeasy needs a little lightening up Toni. (NT) I completely agree..........on the subject of humoUr (lightening up) ...perhaps you only appreciate humor (American spelling?...American humor?)
If you read text from too far north, from Canada, you lose your sense of humor...
Only ONE source of money? (the taxpayer)
Does it make a difference whether the money to pay for taxpayers medical expenses comes from a fund named "Medicare" OR "Obamacare"?
The people that would have used medicare are now eligible to use Obamacare? I know you will explain precisely what the difference is.
What's in a name?
that people on Medicare DIDN'T have to or want to participate in Obamacare, but saw their existing benefits from Medicare cut in order to fund a program they weren't participating in. Nearly a trillion dollars, JP........taken from senior citizens.......the very people lying Dems swear on the stump they are trying to protect. AND BO is the ONLY president in the HISTORY of Social Security benefits to WITHHOLD a COLA a total of three times in 8 years.......blaming it on the economy and rate of inflation, which NEVER takes into consideration the massive increases of food and energy bills that those same people STILL had to pay somehow.
A trillion taken from their medical care and many billions 'saved' by not increasing their checks three times, even by 1%.....all the while KNOWING that because of HIS policies, those very people would be paying higher energy and food prices. BUT those on Obamacare not only received subsidies but most qualified for foodstamps as well because he also lowered the eligibility requirements, including getting housing and THEIR utility bills paid.
"A Trillion Dollars here, a Trillion Dollars there...after a while it starts to add up."
It didn't seem to bother you even a little bit that BO was adding up MANY trillions not only to the National Debt in 8 years' time, doubling what he accused GWB of being unpatriotic over, but also to the Annual Deficit for four years in a row.
Trump's in office for 4 MONTHS and you're already 'complaining'??????
Since you stopped responding to logical debate replies in this thread, does that mean that you've seen the error of your ways or have you just run out of the room after another 'hit and run' post?
When they scored Obamacare, they said it would cover 25M people (they were also counting in the millions that already HAD insurance but would LOSE it and be FORCED into Obamacare instead.....as of this last enrollment count that ended in November or December 2016, the TOTAL count enrolled is 9 million.
When they NOW say that 24M will lose their insurance, they also aren't counting the millions who already HAVE insurance through their employers and will KEEP it.....the rest will be those who get deported and those who will be kicked off of Medicaid who should have never been eligible to begin with and those who will choose NOT to get coverage (this last group are ones who also didn't buy Obamacare) because they will no longer be FORCED into it.