Speakeasy forum


Do the math?

by JP Bill / May 24, 2017 8:56 PM PDT
nah...don't bother

A Trillion Dollars here, a Trillion Dollars there...after a while it starts to add up.
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We can always print more.
by R. Proffitt Forum moderator / May 24, 2017 9:25 PM PDT
In reply to: Do the math?
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When we were kids, my Dad vetoed some kind of
by drpruner / May 24, 2017 9:51 PM PDT

expenditure because of lack of money. My sister said, "We don't need money, Daddy. Write them a check!"

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OK...so someone is looking at projections.
by Steven Haninger / May 25, 2017 2:54 AM PDT
In reply to: Do the math?

What about calculating actual results?

Obama tax increase plan

These include both proposed and enacted changes to the tax code. How well did they work to curb the growing debt?

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RE:How well did they work to curb the growing debt?
by JP Bill / May 25, 2017 3:58 AM PDT

I don't know...Not at all?

Did their "figuring" match their "assumptions"?

If you are going to make predictions at least make the "alternate facts" ADD UP/ correct MATH.

It thought the term was

Figures don't lie, but Liars can figure.

I guess under Trump.....they can't "figure".

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Then I'll presume that the projections
by Steven Haninger / May 25, 2017 5:42 AM PDT

from your own link are of no more value than were those of my link...from 2009, BTW. If figures don't lie, however, all we need to do is look at the before and after graphs of the US debt from then until when Obama left office. Maybe you can find one that shows improvement in that picture but I cannot. Of course there can't be any proof unless the cuts take place and the figures are allowed to roll in over time. This would give us the advantage of hindsight and hindsight is already available for how well the previous president's plan worked.

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RE:there can't be any proof
by JP Bill / May 25, 2017 7:48 AM PDT

proof that the numbers they've provided "don't add up", even BEFORE the predicted events have/or haven't taken place?

The Unworkable Math of Trump’s Budget

There appears to be a major problem with the details of Trump’s budget—namely, that it fails to account for the loss of trillions of dollars of revenue that will result from the tax cuts it proposes.

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And just how well
by TONI H / May 25, 2017 9:26 AM PDT

were the figures adding up from the 'assumptions' BO's Obamacare made regarding how many people would sign up and actually pay for it vs people thrown off what they had, forced into something far more expensive, and many choosing to not buy it at all and pay the fine instead or wait to sign up when they actually needed coverage and then drop it again after they are 'fixed/cured'?

What about the 'assumption' made regarding the trillion dollar stimulus regarding infrastructure that never occurred? Or the back to back trillion dollar annual deficits that still has over 44M people on foodstamps while solar panel companies took billions and folded without anything being produced?

One of the things liberals don't want to look at or talk about regarding the cuts to foodstamps and Medicaid in his budget is the fact that most people won't lose any of those benefits because once you eliminate the illegals who are collecting on them, too, there will still be plenty extra to distribute to those really in need because the numbers getting them now will be drastically reduced. All they DO want to say is that Republicans are going to 'kill children by making them starve'....the same crap they pulled with Obamacare and 'throwing Granny off the cliff' or Dem Grayson touting how the Republicans plan is to have you all 'die quickly'. Nobody is buying the garbage anymore.

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Another person that doesn't want to talk about
by JP Bill / May 25, 2017 10:51 AM PDT
In reply to: And just how well

how the numbers DON'T add up even BEFORE the "assumptions" have "played out".

BEFORE.... during the period of time preceding (a particular event, date, or time)

AFTER....subsequent to and in consequence of

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Are you referring to the
by TONI H / May 25, 2017 12:29 PM PDT

double $700 BILLION accounting BO did for Medicare 'theft' for Obamacare?


Not to mention the trillion dollars spent just to set up Federal exchanges for it and quite a few of them NEVER got put into place like Oregon...http://www.politico.com/story/2014/05/obamacare-cost-failed-exchanges-106535 (you love Politico so I made sure to use their article, just for you). So much for millions of people not being able to sign up, and when they COULDN'T through NO fault of their own, they were fined/taxed anyhow for NOT having coverage.

Why is it that Dems/liberals ONLY want to 'do the math' when the math isn't THEIR math?

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It's TheRUMPs fault now?
by TONI H / May 25, 2017 3:49 PM PDT
In reply to: RE: Obamacare

I don't need Obamacare so not having any choices doesn't affect me and I'm not required/mandated to buy it since I have Medicare and have had it since 1982. I DO have the prescription drug coverage of Medicare Part D. My sister in Ohio has purchased a separate supplemental coverage policy in addition to her Medicare because she has many pre-existing conditions going back to 1980 that needed addressing over the last two years. She had no health insurance until two years ago other than Worker's Compensation that would cover only her back issues going back to 1980 and it was work related.

What has any of your questions have to do with the topic at hand? The rate increase quoted in your link doesn't bother to mention that BO and the Dems were aware that the insurance companies were going to announce those increases for 2018 during the first week of November (just before the election) and BO had tried to put pressure on them to hold off on that announcement until after the election so it wouldn't influence the Dem vote.

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RE:What has any of your questions have to do with
by JP Bill / May 25, 2017 7:33 PM PDT
What has any of your questions have to do with the topic at hand?

As I stated...YOU complained a couple years ago... "insurers" were leaving Virginia....NOW under TheRUMP...they are still leaving Virginia...and threatening to leave Under TheRUMP's watch in 2018.
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So what? Obamacare won't be
by TONI H / May 26, 2017 3:07 AM PDT

in existence anymore so they don't have to BE in the exchange and go back to being privatized. They aren't leaving the STATE, JP....they are leaving Obamacare. There IS a difference and most insurers left during BO's reign and more announced last year before the election that they would leave this year. You can't have health coverage if there are no insurers to choose from even IF the law mandates you buy it, JP. Do your homework and look up how many States or counties only have ONE insurer already.....if that insurer pulls out of Obamacare, there is NOTHING for people to purchase but would still be fined by the IRS for not having any (except Trump already told the IRS to NOT fine people anymore).

You continuously bring up the fact that I complained about insurers leaving Virginia.....but always neglect to mention that they were leaving Obamacare. If you're going to spin a story, JP, at least get the facts right.

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RE:I complained about insurers leaving Virginia.....
by JP Bill / May 27, 2017 4:21 AM PDT
I complained about insurers leaving Virginia.....but always neglect to mention that they were leaving Obamacare.

AND I responded that there weren't enough young/healthy people in Virginia, required to buy insurance, to support the sick/elderly in Virginia to make it profitable for insurers to stay in Virginia.

Who do YOU think will make it profitable for insurers to provide insurance in Virginia?....insurers and their investors(the Donald Trumps of the world) ARE out to make a buck...
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PS...insurers and their investors(the Donald Trumps of the w
by JP Bill / May 27, 2017 4:52 AM PDT
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Again....what has what you wrote
by TONI H / May 27, 2017 6:36 AM PDT

have ANYTHING to do with Trump?  Obamacare is dead, JP.....why in hell would you or anybody else believe/hope that Trump will give them assurances/guarantees they will continue to get subsidies?  Those subsidies under Obamacare were automatically going to disappear this year ANYHOW according to the law and they only way they could continue is with a NEW Congressional law to extend it.

And NO Republican would EVER vote for that even if hilLIARy was sitting anywhere near the Oval Office.

The insurance companies rode the BO handout train for as long as it was going to stay on the tracks and are pulling out rapidly because they know that gravy train is all dried up and over with.
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Did you even bother to comprehend
by TONI H / May 27, 2017 6:31 AM PDT

what you just wrote?  AND I responded that there weren't enough young/healthy people in Virginia, required to buy insurance, to support the sick/elderly in Virginia to make it profitable for insurers to stay in Virginia.

There are PLENTY of young/healthy people, JP.....The PROBLEM with Obamacare was that the fine/tax was a couple of hundred bucks a YEAR to NOT buy it compared to hundreds TO buy it by mandate, and those young/healthy and SMART people chose to tell BO to stick his mandate where the sun doesn't shine.

Insurance was ALWAYS profitable in ALL of the States when people bought it privately, JP.....AND they could purchase a plan that suited their needs without having to ALSO pay for crap they DIDN'T need (such as contraceptives for someone who is already  well beyond the child bearing age).  It's no longer profitable when ONLY those with pre-existing conditions are the main groups looking to buy it.

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RE:pay for crap they DIDN'T need (such as contraceptives
by JP Bill / May 27, 2017 7:16 AM PDT
pay for crap they DIDN'T need (such as contraceptives for someone who is already well beyond the child bearing age).

So you don't believe in miracles?

Insurance against miracles?
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Do you even have a clue
by TONI H / May 27, 2017 5:02 PM PDT

as to how ridiculously you post most times?

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RE:Do you even have a clue
by JP Bill / May 27, 2017 8:26 PM PDT

Do you even have a sense of humoUr....

In another thread you agreed with Daffyd Sometimes Speakeasy needs a little lightening up Toni. (NT) I completely agree..........on the subject of humoUr (lightening up) ...perhaps you only appreciate humor (American spelling?...American humor?)

If you read text from too far north, from Canada, you lose your sense of humor...

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Speaking of ridiculous posts
by JP Bill / May 27, 2017 8:40 PM PDT
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(NT) Correction.... Dafydd...Sorry
by JP Bill / May 27, 2017 9:13 PM PDT
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RE:Cut Billions from Medicare to Fund Obamacare
by JP Bill / May 25, 2017 1:25 PM PDT

Only ONE source of money? (the taxpayer)

Does it make a difference whether the money to pay for taxpayers medical expenses comes from a fund named "Medicare" OR "Obamacare"?

The people that would have used medicare are now eligible to use Obamacare? I know you will explain precisely what the difference is.

What's in a name?

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The difference is
by TONI H / May 25, 2017 3:57 PM PDT

that people on Medicare DIDN'T have to or want to participate in Obamacare, but saw their existing benefits from Medicare cut in order to fund a program they weren't participating in. Nearly a trillion dollars, JP........taken from senior citizens.......the very people lying Dems swear on the stump they are trying to protect. AND BO is the ONLY president in the HISTORY of Social Security benefits to WITHHOLD a COLA a total of three times in 8 years.......blaming it on the economy and rate of inflation, which NEVER takes into consideration the massive increases of food and energy bills that those same people STILL had to pay somehow.

A trillion taken from their medical care and many billions 'saved' by not increasing their checks three times, even by 1%.....all the while KNOWING that because of HIS policies, those very people would be paying higher energy and food prices. BUT those on Obamacare not only received subsidies but most qualified for foodstamps as well because he also lowered the eligibility requirements, including getting housing and THEIR utility bills paid.

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OK...YOUR words
by TONI H / May 27, 2017 2:06 AM PDT
In reply to: Do the math?

"A Trillion Dollars here, a Trillion Dollars there...after a while it starts to add up."

It didn't seem to bother you even a little bit that BO was adding up MANY trillions not only to the National Debt in 8 years' time, doubling what he accused GWB of being unpatriotic over, but also to the Annual Deficit for four years in a row.

Trump's in office for 4 MONTHS and you're already 'complaining'??????

Since you stopped responding to logical debate replies in this thread, does that mean that you've seen the error of your ways or have you just run out of the room after another 'hit and run' post?

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RE:stopped responding to logical debate replies
by JP Bill / May 27, 2017 4:14 AM PDT
In reply to: OK...YOUR words
stopped responding to logical debate replies in this thread

There is nothing "logical" about YOUR responses in this thread....I make a claim about the fuzzy math that TheRUMP is using....and YOU respond with claims that Obama did the same thing...(there IS a difference between "fuzzy math" and "things not working out as planned")...MY "figures don't lie, but liars can figure", reference.

YOU voted for TheRUMP "for change", then, when HE does something stupid....YOUR argument is "Hey Obama did the same thing".

Obama did the same "stupid thing" that TheRUMP is NOW doing?

YOU can't/don't/won't defend TheRUMP's actions...YOU just claim the other guy did the same thing...

NOT a LOGICAL reply from someone that didn't like the way things were....VOTED FOR CHANGE, and the guy YOU voted for is doing the same as the person YOU replaced?
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I didn't believe the CBO numbers
by TONI H / May 27, 2017 6:40 AM PDT

when BO's Dems were bragging about it because NONE of it was true, and I don't believe the CBO numbers now either.  I also don't believe that the trillions that the liberals are touting, including yourself, will happen when their numbers aren't figuring in the massive cuts in spending and are not figuring the numbers of people who will finally find work and begin paying into the system and are not figuring in the numbers of illegals who will no longer be sucking on the government teat anymore and draining resources in many different directions.

That's logical........but liberals don't deal in logic.
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Speaking of CBO numbers
by TONI H / May 27, 2017 5:08 PM PDT

When they scored Obamacare, they said it would cover 25M people (they were also counting in the millions that already HAD insurance but would LOSE it and be FORCED into Obamacare instead.....as of this last enrollment count that ended in November or December 2016, the TOTAL count enrolled is 9 million.

When they NOW say that 24M will lose their insurance, they also aren't counting the millions who already HAVE insurance through their employers and will KEEP it.....the rest will be those who get deported and those who will be kicked off of Medicaid who should have never been eligible to begin with and those who will choose NOT to get coverage (this last group are ones who also didn't buy Obamacare) because they will no longer be FORCED into it.

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by drpruner / May 28, 2017 6:45 PM PDT
In reply to: Do the math?

And no one sees the connection between governments [red and blue] and my sister?

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