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Question

Do I need a special phone for VoIP?

Apr 17, 2018 3:13PM PDT

Hi. I've been using VoIP for about 7 years. I have been experiencing a few issues all this time that usually aren't too bothersome, but make me wonder if you have to buy a special phone to use VoIP. Right now I'm using a regular 2-handset cordless landline phone set with a Cisco SPA122 ATA.

First, when I'm talking to someone on the phone, apparently I will cut out for about 15 seconds, making them wonder if I'm still on the line. I just keep on saying "Can you hear me yet?" until they say "Ah, there you are!". Then I have to explain that my phone does this all the time.

Secondly, I don't have Call Waiting, and I'm supposed to. I'll be on the phone, and then there will be the beep and sound distortion that lets me know that someone's trying to call me on the other line. Over the years I've tried hitting the "Flash" button to get to the other line, and there is either no sound, or a dialtone. Sometimes another hit to the "Flash" button will get me back to the first line, sometimes that line has been disconnected. If hitting the "Flash" button a second time gets me a dialtone, I try hitting the "Flash" button a third time to try to grab that call that came in on the second line, again. But it won't be there. In the 7 years that I've used this VoIP carrier (it's FREE, so I don't want to give it up), I have only once been successful in hitting the "Flash" button and reaching that person calling in on the second line. But it disconnected the first person.
Now, when I hear the beep and sound distortion indicating that someone's trying to call me on the other line, I just ignore it and let that call go to the VoIPs voice mail ($0) and pick up the message in my email after I've finished talking to the first person.

Thirdly (and this one is a problem), often when I put the phone back in it's cradle), the phone stops working. If the computer is on with the speakers on, I usually get an electronic "Whomp!" sound coming from the speakers. Perhaps some kind of power surge? The Answering system will have turned itself off, and the phone will display "Searching..." for a few seconds, then display "No Line". If the speakers aren't on, I won't even know until ages later that the phone hasn't been working, and sometimes there will be a couple of messages waiting for me in my email that I missed during this time. Usually an unplugging of both the line for the power, and the line from the ATA from the digital answering system base, a bit of a wait, then replugging gets the phone back. But sometimes I have to unplug/replug the ATA, too. And sometimes I have to unplug/replug the ATA, and reset it as well.

I have looked up "VoIP phone" on various store websites to see if there's a special phone needed which could explain why my phone (designed for a landline) has these problems. The phones that come up in the results are corded office SIP phones, which I don't need because I have the ATA.

Is it the phone? I like having the cordless 2-handset landline phone because then I can have a phone in each room without having to plug it into a computer (I don't have Wi-Fi), and I can pace the floor during a phone call; something not easily done with a corded phone... Laugh

-If it's the programming, then I was given the wrong programming when I initially paid $80 to get all the instructions.
-If it's the ATA, then I would have to buy a new one and pay another $80 to get the programming info again because when you print out the info, the passwords are all asterixed out. And I would probably lose my phone number as because the service is free, there are no forums, no customer service. I'd have to set up a new account.
-If it's the phone just being a crappy phone, no problem; I can replace it with another 2-handset cordless landline phone set.

How would I know if it's the ATA, the programming or the phone?
Or something else?

I'd like to just be able to put that phone back in it's cradle casually (I put it back in the cradle gently like it's a delicate little baby) without signal to the phone disappearing, and have a phone call without cutting out, and be able to make use of the free Call-waiting that's part of the phone service.

So does all this sound familiar to anybody? Clues as to what the problem is, what would solve it?

(PS: There don't seem to be any forums about VoIP, or non-cell phones, so that's why this question is in "General".)

Discussion is locked

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Answer
I suggest you take all the above complaints
Apr 18, 2018 4:40AM PDT

to your Broadband Internet supplier.
All these problems should be sorted out by them.

No, you do not need a special phone

P

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They didn't know
Apr 18, 2018 2:03PM PDT

Thanks for the advice. I'm glad I don't need a special phone. Happy
Funny, when I called the internet provider about this, 3 years ago, the person I spoke to in Tech Support helped me through changing some details in my Cisco ATA setup (he even knew the URL to get access). When I got your reply and called, the person I spoke to said all they could do was check my internet status (it's fine), and that's it. They couldn't help with third party technology. Sad

So no help there. I've posted my questions on the Cisco forums. Maybe someone there will know.

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Answer
use only VOIP that plugs....
Apr 18, 2018 3:16PM PDT

...direct to router. Also in some routers are protocol and port settings that can be set to aid the use of VOIP. I use Magic Jack Plus and no problems. My phone system is a Panasonic DECT 4 station system. If you are feeding a splitter into your home wiring, disconnect all outside wiring, it can cause grounding issues that will cause what you are experiencing.

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Sorry, I need translation...
Apr 18, 2018 4:30PM PDT

I don't think I have a router like the one you're referring to. I have a cable outlet from my apartment wall that feeds into the modem, that feeds into the ATA (Cisco SPA 122 with built-in router) which feeds both into the computer and the phone. The phone-line plugs directly into the ATA. The guy I spoke to from my bandwidth provider a few years ago told me to set it up this way because I was experiencing phone problems. He was also able to tell me how to slightly adjust the settings in the ATA to fit their service as he was also using the same ATA for his VoIP. I don't have a wireless router (no wi-fi). I live in an apartment building high-rise, so there is no outside wiring. I don't know what a splitter is.
My phone system is a Motorolla DECT 6.0 Digital Cordless 2 handset phone with Digital Answering system.

I don't seem to be doing any of the wrong things that you've mentioned. Would that be correct?

Thank-you for taking an interest Happy

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description
Apr 19, 2018 8:22AM PDT
Description

Eliminate compromise on voice quality or features for phone and fax capabilities associated with Internet voice over IP (VoIP) service. Cisco VoIP solutions provide the quality, peace of mind, and investment protection at an affordable price.The Cisco SPA112 2 Port Adapter enables high-quality VoIP service with a comprehensive feature set through a broadband Internet connection. Easy to install and use, it works over an IP network to connect analog phones and fax machines to a VoIP service provider and provides support for additional LAN connections.The Cisco SPA112 includes two standard telephone ports to connect existing analog phones or fax machines to a VoIP service provider. The phone line can be configured independently. With the Cisco SPA112, users can protect and extend their investment in their existing analog telephones, conference speakerphones, and fax machines as well as control their migration to IP voice with an extremely affordable, reliable solution.Compact in design and compatible with international voice and data standards, the Cisco SPA112 can be used with residential, home-office, and small business VoIP service offerings, including full-featured hosted or open source IP PBX environments. This easy-to-use solution delivers advanced features to better connect employees and serve customers, all on a highly secure Cisco network.

1) you are on broadband and not DSL?
2) This device should work OK on a broadband
3) The device itself doesn't seem to be VOIP, but requires a VOIP service to be in use with it.
4) I use Magic jack plus device, plugged to a LAN port on my router. If internet works O and I had any problem, then I'd know the VOIP service from Magic Jack was the problem. Does your internet service work OK separate from the VOIP provider?
5) you live in a multi-unit dwelling area. Maybe their internal cabling has a problem? Have you spoken to the apartment manager about this?
6) Have you spoken with other residents to see if they've had similar problems?
7) The apartment provided cable is RF or LAN port, or DSL?

Maybe the ISP will come out and do a line test at the apartment complex for you, and if needed, move you to a different cable connect.
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Some Answers
Apr 19, 2018 1:23PM PDT

Hi James Denison.

1. Yes, I am on Broadband, not DSL.
2. Yes, the Cisco SPA 122 should work fine on Broadband
3. I have a VoIP service
4. The SPA 122 has an internal router. My internet service is generally fine: when it isn't, it means the modem needs and unplug/reset/replug, and then everything's fine.
5. I can't speak to the apartment manager about issues like this. This isn't their area, and they're bad managers. They'll put up a fight and ignore you for months if you even request a repair because you don't have any water. So they'd certainly ignore something like this. And they don't have much knowledge about much of anything, so they certainly wouldn't have a clue about internal cabling.
6. Any other residents I've spoken to are either traditional landline users, or exclusively cell phone users.
7. The tech guy from my internet provider says the signals coming from my cable are RF, "which then communicate with LAN somewhere down the road."

What do you mean by a "Line Test"? Because yesterday the tech person I spoke to sent me to their website for a speed test, which they said meant that everything is fine.

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intermittent problem
Apr 19, 2018 4:31PM PDT

Probably something in the lines to your apartment, maybe due to outside wind, grounding out wire at times. Seems not much you can do about it yourself. Fiber optic is so much better and never grounds out. Too bad it's not in your apartment.

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Answer
This is not an answer. Just things I do.
Apr 18, 2018 3:18PM PDT
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This will helpful to others.
Apr 18, 2018 4:53PM PDT

-I bought this computer with Windows 10 (first Windows 10 computer ever) on Nov 24th last year. Set it up 25th Nov. Went into all kinds of settings and protected my privacy and also did as the article you pointed me towards suggested and stopped Microsoft from using my computer to reduce their bandwidth use total.
-Stopped downloading torrents at least 3 years ago. This computer has never downloaded a torrent.
-When there's a phone call coming in, I automatically stop any internet streaming for the sake of politeness. I haven't noticed a difference in phone call quality whether the computer is on or not.

The phone problems have been going on for 5-7 years. The sudden loss of phone line (Searching> Out of range> no Line) has been going on for about 3 years.

My bandwidth speed download is 6.39mbps, upload 2.14mbps. Not super fast, I know, but adequate.

I'm sure there are many people investigating this thread who will find your advice helpful. Thank-you for contributing.

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If this has been going on for 5+ years.
Apr 18, 2018 5:42PM PDT

I missed that on your opening post. Sorry but that means it's a built in problem. In such cases unless it's solved with the usual ideas we have to look at replacing gear or ISPs.

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Well, USING VoIP for 7 years
Apr 18, 2018 6:12PM PDT

Although to the listener, I usually cut out for 15 seconds or so, for all that time, the signal just slamming off to my phone has been going on for about 3 years. That's why I'm looking at phones and if I needed a special one. That could have something to do with the charging base just having developed something "off" about it from having been used for so long, and slamming off the signal when I put the phone back into the cradle. I don't think it's an ISP problem. I've been thinking either;
Phone
ATA or
Modem

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Let me share the VOIP's I use.
Apr 18, 2018 6:18PM PDT

I have an OBI200, and apps like Whatsapp, Google Voice and now Alexa to make phone calls. It's almost dizzying to see what we can call out on for free today.

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A pity...
Apr 18, 2018 6:30PM PDT

I don't have a cell phone, I'm not in the US, and Whatsapp won't work on my device. So far, my Canadian free VoIP provider is the best I can get, as far as I know. But as time goes on, I'm sure we'll all get a lot more options.

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I use Whatsapp on a PC and tablet.
Apr 18, 2018 6:33PM PDT

No Cell Phone required. I even got the phone number without a cell phone using the Internet for that advice. I continue to read about folk that can't do that step. Never can figure out why it works for me.

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When my daughter
Apr 19, 2018 8:25AM PDT

was stationed in Okinawa japan, she called home free all the time to our Magic Jack since she also had taken a Magic Jack there, across the internet connection from her barracks. If there's anyone in the world you want to speak with who has internet service, if you have a Magic Jack and they do to, you can do so. Of course there's other options like Skype for talking across the internet. You might also investigate Google Voice service.

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advice...
Apr 20, 2018 4:44PM PDT

Thank-you for the advice James Denison.

Google voice isn't accessible in Canada, and there's no-one outside of Canada that I need to speak to, so no need for a Magicbox. But it's been interesting looking your suggestions up and adding to my knowledge a bit. Thank-you Happy

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How did?
Apr 20, 2018 5:19PM PDT
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from what I've read
Apr 20, 2018 5:54PM PDT

Hi R. Proffitt.
From what I've read on the Google Voice website, Wikipedia,and other sites, it's not really something that can be applied to an ATA/landline phone setup for both Canadian national and local incoming and outgoing calls. On the Google voice website under "Start using Google Voice", the second item I'd need is "U.S. phone number that can forward calls after ringing." Not really a practical alternative to the local Canadian number I've got now. No-one's going to call me at a US phone number. Under "Cost and availability" it says "Google Voice is only available in the U.S. If you're outside the U.S., you can make calls with Hangouts."

Wikipedia says it's for PC to PC calls only. It also says "A Google Voice local phone number for incoming calls is currently available only for users in the United States." Which would make it quite impractical for people in Canada to call me. Right now I've got a nice local area-code phone number, so anyone local or in the country can call me over my landline phone through the ATA.

The article you sent me is confusing. It only makes a small mention of Google Voice, while the main article is on Google Home. In the first paragraph it says "But you can’t call another Google Home from yours or answer calls with it; only outgoing calls work right now." So you can't call out, and you can't receive calls. But you can call out. Huh? Even if I've misunderstood, it still doesn't seem like an easy changeover.

Anyway, I'm coming to the conclusion that the problem is the phone; specifically the digital answering system base that's in the livingroom. I don't seem to lose phone connectivity when I put the phone back into the cradle in the bedroom...not that I often talk on the phone in the bedroom. Probably less than 10 times a year. But the answering system base in the livingroom is constantly used, so it would stand to reason that it could get worn out. I'm going to invest in a new set of phones and hopefully that will take care of the biggest problem, which is the loss of phone signal 50% of the time when I put the phone back in the cradle.

It's great that Google voice has worked for you while in BC, but for me, I think it just seems a bit over my head.

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Sorry, when I make calls with Google Voice
Apr 20, 2018 6:53PM PDT

I indeed may use Hangouts. I am calling other Google Voice uses in Canada so in clarification I see you want the Google to land line feature. Which is not how I was calling (to and from Canada.)

I'm cheap so I also use Whatsapp and other free voice apps.

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I'm cheap too
Apr 20, 2018 7:11PM PDT

I looked into whatsapp, too, and the first thing the program said to me was "This program will not work on your device."
I only have the desktop computer and the landline-type phone, so the modem to ATA to landline phone really is the only option for a practical, everyday phone.

So far, I've got a completely free VoIP service provider, so it can't get any better than that. I really think the biggest problem is the phone service cutting out when I put the phone back in the cradle, so I'm going to focus on that. Of course, it's really annoying hearing the call-waiting beep and knowing that someone else is trying to contact me and I can't get to them, but if I had a regular paid landline, I wouldn't be able to afford call-waiting, so I wouldn't have it anyway. At least with the VoIP provider I have, the call will go to email voicemail. Blush

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hmm
Apr 21, 2018 2:07PM PDT

sounds like the phone lines might not be installed properly, the colored wires reversed between the one phone and the other, probably at the wall jack.

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mmmm..
Apr 21, 2018 2:16PM PDT

No, I don't think it's anything like that. There aren't "phone lines" to speak of. There's the line to the phone from the ATA. That's it. The ATA is just a box that sits next to the modem on the computer desk. There is a wall jack for a phone, but it's not active as I don't have landline service. No colored wires, nothing plugged into it. The phone that's in the other room only has the base plugged into the electrical socket to keep the base (and the phone in it) powered. No other line going into it. It gets it's signal from the digital answering system base in the livingroom, I guess.

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Answer
I take it you have implemented some of my suggestions.
Apr 21, 2018 3:34PM PDT

Especially in regard to W10.

The ONLY test remaining is to swap this SPA122 with another and see if it's a hardware issue.
The only reason to not do this is the client (you) can't pull it off. I've lost count of oddities in routers and more over the years that you arrive, swap and it's cured. Then the client wants to know exactly why.
You are not going to make them happy as you know "this is bad, this is better." No maker will explain what's wrong when it goes back. Why? The hardware is too cheap today.

That out of the way, another test I'd do is to put this device into the DMZ at a fixed IP.

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that's a great idea
Apr 21, 2018 8:07PM PDT
"That out of the way, another test I'd do is to put this device into the DMZ at a fixed IP."

Hopefully he knows how to access the internal program on the router to do this.
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unfortunately...
Apr 22, 2018 12:11PM PDT

Unfortunately, I've tried looking up what "put this device into the DMZ at a fixed IP" means, and I'm just not getting it. Internal program on the router? Does that mean I could I go into my current Cisco SPA 122 settings and find this somewhere, to try?
Sadly, when I go into the settings, I have no idea what I'm looking at.

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that's a problem
Apr 22, 2018 7:39PM PDT

"Sadly, when I go into the settings, I have no idea what I'm looking at."


You'd have to read the manual then on the device, and maybe google some of the terms you see in the internal program for it. Basically DMZ is an allusion to "demilitarized zone" from Viet Nam years, but in router's it's a direct connection between a device and the internet through the router, meaning not subject to the NAT address assignment method which offers protection to computers from some hacking attempts. It's usually safe enough to use with IoT (internet of things using embedded programming). It gives a device a pass through direct to the ISP supplied internet service. A static IP is one you manually assign in the router and lock the device to that IP use only. Another time static IP is used is often with printers. It means each time those devices with assigned static IP come alive, the router gives them that same IP address and doesn't use the DHCP method of assigning them an IP, which method means a device could end up with different IP addresses from day to day.

Here's a brief guide on what the various terms mean
https://www.webopedia.com/quick_ref/router_options.asp
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Thank-you
Apr 23, 2018 6:37PM PDT

Thank-you for the explanation and the link. There's so much more in the settings of the ATA than the list on that page, but it will give me a starting point. I'm even going to have to investigate some of the explanations: ie; "MAC Address; A unique ID assigned by the manufacturer of the network adapter" Ack! Whats a Network Adapter?

I'll look it all up.

Your explanation on DMZ was pretty clear. I think a metaphor for it would be a tunnel through a mountain to get to the other side, rather than climbing over or around the mountain. Or from point A to point D without having to go through all the other points.

I'm going to be doing a lot of Googling Confused

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Yes
Apr 22, 2018 12:07PM PDT

Yes, I did the step you suggested about stopping Windows from using my computer to help update other computers, on the very day I set this computer up last year. One of the first things I did.

I'm a bit leery of changing the ATA when the main problem is the phone line disappearing when I put the phone back in the cradle. Since a phone replacement costs about the same as an ATA replacement (which I don't know I could handle as I'm not tech savvy) I'm going to try a phone replacement. I'm scared that if I change ATAs, that I'll lose my VoIP. I don't know if that's the case or not because I'm not tech savvy. I'm just really nervous about it. I'm so not tech savvy that I'm trying to understand about a "DMZ at a fixed IP" at https://www.tp-link.com/us/FAQ-28.html, and find my brain starting to fry pretty much from the beginning.

I'm on a fixed budget, so a phone replacement next month, perhaps, is affordable. I can't do both a phone replacement and an ATA replacement. And it does seem to be more the phone for the signal disconnecting. It happened again this morning and I had to unplug the power and line from the base, wait, and replug them back in, which brought the signal back.

By the by, for some reason, I'm not getting notifications when you post here. I only saw that you had posted yesterday, by accident!

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I still think a set IP on your LAN and
Apr 23, 2018 6:53PM PDT

Putting that IP into the router's DMZ would be a good thing to try. I don't see why there is any risk here.

Can you tell me why you think it's risky? Here it's something we keep in our bag of tricks.