Lite scrib best way if your going to bother to do a pretty ***. cover .
Speed on DVD players with an incorrectly aligned paper applique will eventually break down your DVD driver .
I myself use a good Sharpie specially made for writing on DVD's & CD's _ who see them anyway .
You hide them to prect them from the elements anyway so why bother .
Joe V
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General discussion
Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life?
I've been backing up my important files on recordable CDs and DVDs for a quite a few years now. However, the other day my friend told me that he read some article explaining that burned CDs and DVDs, while a reliable backup method, do have a shelf life and one day they will fail to read and that I should make duplicate backup copies of my files on another media or external hard drive just in case. This is new news to me, but paranoia still set in! I went immediately to check on a few of my backed up CDs from many years ago dated 1998 and 1999 and was relieved to find that they read perfectly fine from my PC. Now I'm questioning if what my friend read was a myth and I'm turning to you for answers. Is it true, will burned CDs and DVDs eventually become unreadable? If there is a shelf life, what is their expected life span? Are there better quality CDs or DVDs recordable discs that are better for longtime storage? What is the best way to store burned disc to prolong shelf life, if there is such a thing? Am I being paranoid for no reason? Have you had any old burned CDs or DVDs fail on you because they were too old? Sorry for all the questions. Thanks for any facts you can provide.
--Submitted by Michael D.
Here are some featured member answers to get you started, but
please read up on all the advice and suggestions that our
members have contributed to this member's question.
CD/DVD shelf life --Submitted by Zouch
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-7588_102-0.html?forumID=70&threadID=327942&messageID=2966806#2966806
Longevity of optical media --Submitted by Watzman
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-7588_102-0.html?forumID=70&threadID=327942&messageID=2966751#2966751
Life depends on quality--here are my experiences --Submitted TonyGore
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-7588_102-0.html?forumID=70&threadID=327942&messageID=2967126#2967126
To read or not to read? That is the question. --Submitted by Starkiller5
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-7588_102-0.html?forumID=70&threadID=327942&messageID=2967968#2967968
Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? --Submitted by explorer2_000
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-7588_102-0.html?forumID=70&threadID=327942&messageID=2966896#2966896
About CD/DVD lifespan --Submitted by mssusanf
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-7588_102-0.html?forumID=70&threadID=327942&messageID=2967294#2967294
If you have any additional tips, knowledge, or experience to share with Michael, please click on the reply link below and submit your answer. If you have links that will help with this topic, please do provide it in your submission. Thank you!
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61 - 90 of 261 Posts
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Hi, where did you find the special Sharpie pen? The ones I see in drug stores or Wal-mart stores do not say anything special on the package.
Thanks
Don
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You can find them at one of those places or @ Office Depot.
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Thanks--I was curious about that too. But this just looks like a marketing gimmick. It's hard to imagine the ink type in these things is really any different from standard Sparpies. You're just paying a bunch more for four colors, and two different point widths. I'm ready to assume that regular Sharpies will be just as safe for writing on discs--but I'm willing to stand corrected if that's wrong.
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The following information is from the required Material Safety Data Sheets which can be viewed on the Sanford Sharpie web-site :
Regular Sharpie Composition = Dyes, n-propanol (71-23-8), n-butanol (71-36-3), diacetone alcohol (123-42-2) *
CD / DVD Sharpie Composition = Ethanol (64-17-5), 1-methoxy - 2-propanol (107-98-2), Dyes *
As you can see,among other differences,the regular Sharpies have diacetone alcohol and n-butanol which the CD/DVD Sharpies don't have.Instead,the CD/DVD Sharpies have ethanol. There's not a real big price difference,either.
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Though admittedly purely anecdotal, I've used Sharpie and even "Industrial" Sharpie markers for years on writable CD's and DVD's. I've never encountered an obvious problem with a Sharpie damaging a disk. I do have a few 10+ year old CD's that don't seem to want to read anymore, but they are pretty scratched. I have others of the same age that continue to work just fine... all with Sharpie ink on them.
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I believe that it is the acid content in the sharpies that will cause archival problems. The writing tool needs to be acid free.
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Fantastic info! I just have a couple things that I ran into that may or may not be of interest.
Yes, I agree, DO NOT USE PAPER LABELS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES! I have lost quite a few when I was using the paper labels. Appears that the glue eroded the thin film on top of the cd and made them unreadable.
Now I use the inkjet printable,(other printable methods are probably just as good) cd s and dvd s for all purposes!
Another item of interest is storage. I use the "STAKKA" units. They hold 100 disks. Totally dark inside. Haven't lost any printable ones in past few years.
Here is a tip that may help to recover some of the disk that hereto fore was unreadable.
USE A BLUERAY READER! They are quite a bit more sensitive to data and will sometimes recover data that otherwise would be lost.
I discovered this by accident. I have some cd s of my late Brother in law s band which was recorded off a vhs tape. My normal CD/DVD player did a lot of dropouts. By accident, I put this one in my new blueray player, IT PLAYED COMPLETELY THROUGH! Maybe it will work for you, don't cause any damage to try! If you have any success, please post back with the results as I am very interested if this was just a one time coincidence!
Best of luck to all.
R1000
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Yes they do have a shelf life. The ones I h ave used so far don't very long at all. But color was mentioned as a factor. I am not really all that knowledgable about this , But I bought some CD-R's a while back that came out around christmas and were all colors. I had nothing but trouble with those, especially the green ones.They were put out By Sony and were on special. I won't buy anymore of those. I have had the best luck with the plain white labels, But they don't make those anymore. They are all silver color now. But Pretty much reliable. Never have trouble from writing on them either. main thing is to keep them put up and away from the elements.
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gene_71
In regards to the color issue. I don't think that the original answer was referring to the color of the disc (top surface). He was referring to the writable surface. They usually only come in a couple of different colors, i.e. gold, silver, and purple. I have not seen a green writable surface but I guess anything is possible. I would definitely stay away from any other than gold and purple as that is what I too have had best luck with.
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There is a freeware application called Dvdisaster, which adds an error correction code to CDs and DVDs. It is claimed to extend the life of the media. You can use it to monitor the state of your media from time to time. It will show you if your media is beginning to deteriorate.
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however, a proprietary I/O encoding scheme will require the proprietary OS driver to read back. Drivers incorporated into an OS are a lot more challenging to keep current since they are at a level below the application interface to the OS, which is by definition intended to be more consistent over time (as much as possible).
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Anyone have a recommendation for a name brand CD that is especially reliable? Purple, gold, or silver don't mean much to me, but if someone has a specific brand recommendation, e.g. Sony Model xyz it would help. Their cost has dropped enough to not mind spending a little more on better quality. Thanks much.
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The only brands that I reccomend are Fuli and TDK. Imation, HP and Sony, I would not use if they were giving them away.
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Old Rattler requested suggested media.
I strongly suggest TDK, Phillips, and Verbatim.
I am told Taiyo Yuden and Ricoh are equivalent, but don't see them or know who might use them.
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All of these brand name blank discs are made in the same factories,mainly in Taiwan but sometimes in China,India, or Japan.
For example,you could buy a 50 pack of Maxell CD-R's one day and then three months later buy what looks to be another of the same Maxell 50 packs of CD-R's but,you could end up with two different batches of discs from two different factories in two different countries with two different levels of quality.The brand name of blank discs which are commonly found in retail stores means little to nothing.
For cheap (name brand or otherwise) store bought blank discs,I would strongly recommend the ones made in Japan versus the ones made in Taiwan,China,or India.
The real quality discs for longevity are the "Archival Grade" Gold discs.This is important because,there is actual gold used in these discs.The reason for that is because gold resists the oxidation caused by the earth's atmosphere.This prevents the early degradation of the discs.
For the most part,these archival grade discs have to be ordered from places such as EncoreDataProducts.com or MediaSupply.com .They are made by MAM-A (Mitsui),Falcon,Verbatim,Quantegy,Kodak,Apogee,HHB,and by Delkin Devices (E-Film).I can personally speak for the first and last names that I mentioned plus the Kodak Preservation Discs but,they all should (more than) do the trick because of the benefits of the gold layer.
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CD/DVD Shelf Life
by Zouch - 1/30/09 7:12 PM In reply to: Do burned CDs and DVDs have a shelf life? by Lee Koo (ADMIN) Moderator
[..]and don't step on them and keep them disk free.
Hehe xD
ps.
You are posting a reply to: Shelf life? Life Span?
by cdadave - 2/13/09 7:24 PM
...since that's probably the time in which my own personal shelf-life will run out...
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Lifetimes are estimates based on accelerated aging tests and the shelf life should be over 20 years.
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I can't give you a technical opinion, but I have had a number of CDs go sour. These include data CD-Rs, data CD-RWs and normal commercial music CDs. None of them appeared to be abraded, none have been near sunlight.
I live in the tropics, which may be a factor.
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Usually, the pressed commercial CDs, as opposed to the fickle burned ones, last a LONG time. I am sure the tropics may have something to do with the degradation of commercial CD's, but not always. Even in ultra-tropical Kerala, India (7 degrees from the Equator), pressed commercial CDs have lasted over 2 decades.
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Since 1998 I have been in charge of document imaging for my particular business unit. At first, we burned important documents to CD, then, as the DVDs came on line, we moved to DVD format. Normally we burn two copies. Each are run through a CRC checker after passing the verification of the burning software (normally Roxio EasyCD Creator in various versions). We tried to always use name brand media -- Sony, Verbatium, etc. We never used R/W, always write once media. One copy gets stored in our raised floor computer room in a cabinet for CDs or in the original media box, the other goes to Iron Mountain storage. Recently we needed to put back online a CD from Dec 2000. We could not read it. Luckily, the copy from Iron Mountain (stored in darkness and relatively lower temps) was readable. Short answer, the media dye formula can change, storage temps/humidity do count. We reburned copies on new media for over 100 CDs from that era and are crossing our fingers. Even still, this is better than the situation with computer tapes, which I would not trust further than I can throw them.
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the only issues you haven't dealt with are, for example, fire, theft,
floods, sabotage and others in this class.
how paranoid can one get?
akiva in ny
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Actually, tapes are the way to go for lengthy storage. If they are written to, left alone and stored properly. They will out last our grand children. As long as you have a way to read them.
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Coming from years of experience on many types of mainframes the principals remain the same when dealing with 1/2" tapes and all other corresponding widths of tape. Whilst I agree tape is an excellent long term storage media, and having over 40 years experience of storing mainframe 2400',1200' and other types, some security backup tapes would become unreadable. This is sometime due to a phenomenon called 'flux seepage' whereby recordings get distorted and lost. We used to keep on top of the problem by maintaining a strict 3 year rotational schedule of unwinding and rewinding stored tapes. This reduced tape 'read failure' rate considerably. There are many other reasons why tapes go 'unreadable' and here are a FEW more:-
-: incorrectly aligned read/write heads skim 'oxide' from surface of tape which eventually goea unreadable.
-: misaligned spools feeding tape into the read head and recordings get distorted/lost and eventual tape damage.
In conclusion, tape is good but always exercise caution when handling and always check the resultant copies for problems whilst in storage.
Cheers Jeff
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I am journalist and have hundred of CDs with old works and images in JPG and tiff formats. From 300 Cds I experimenten, with pain, that almost the ten percent (30) are unreadable. The CDs are not secure. From two years ago I make double copy of my works and mantain the backups protected of high temperature and dust. I also pray to God that protect my CDs with my old works.
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I was using CDs initially and later DVDs to archive data (mostly photographs). I wanted to transfer data from CDs burned starting in 2001 to DVDs for more efficient storage when I found that my PC could no longer read them. I tried many different computers and was able to recover some of the files by using a Mac. Further investigation of this subject revealed an interesting and informative set of FAQs at http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq07.html#S7-5 There are additional links within the FAQs.
Further study found a more thorough discussion at: http://adterrasperaspera.com/blog/2006/10/30/how-to-choose-cddvd-archival-media
After studying the information in these links I have been using only Taiyo Yuden recordable media.
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Michael, I would just say to keep CDs and DVDs from getting scratched and free from foreign materials. I use the vinyl 2-sided sleeves, because I have so many movies and sports recorded. As far as quality of DVDs, they are definitely NOT all of dependable quality. Stay away from cheap-cheap. Myself, I don't get burned (not a pun) when using Sony. I look for them, frequently, on sale at Walgreens. Personally,I have to stay away from Fuji and Phillips. I'm sure you'll get more technical advice.
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There are three basic types of CD and DVD discs?ROM, R, and RW and RAM?each use a different data layer material: molded aluminum, organic dye, or phase-changing film, respectively. Deterioration of this material is the primary cause for disc degradation and, ultimately, ?end of life? for the disc, assuming proper physical handling.
Environmental factors can affect the rate of disc degradation. In each of the three basic disc types, environmental forces will degrade the data layer much faster than the polycarbonate substrate layer (the clear plastic that makes up most of the disc). Because degradation of the data layer will render the disc useless well before the polycarbonate begins to deteriorate, the relative degradation rate for the polycarbonate layer is not used for life expectancy considerations.
Physical mishandling of the disc is usually the cause of polycarbonate
layer damage. The polycarbonate may also flex or bend if stored for a long period of time in a nonvertical position.
So what is the life expectancy of a disc? First, we must define life expectancy. For most users, it means the length of time for which the disc remains usable. But that implies some acceptable amount of degradation.
How much and what type of degradation is acceptable?
With CDs and DVDs, the user does not notice early degradation because the error detection and correction capability built into the system corrects a certain number of errors. The user notices a problem
only when the error correction coding is unable to fully correct the errors.
One method for determining end of life for a disc is based on the number of errors on a disc before the error correction occurs. The chance of disc failure increases with the number of errors, but it is impossible to define the number of errors in a disc that will absolutely cause a performance problem (minor or catastrophic) because it depends on the number of errors left, after error correction, and their distribution within the data. When the number of errors (before error correction) on a disc increases to a certain level, the chance of disc failure, even if small, can be deemed unacceptable and thus signal the disc?s end of life.
Manufacturers tend to use this premise to estimate media longevity.
They test discs by using accelerated aging methodologies with controlled extreme temperature and humidity influences over a relatively short period of time. However, it is not always clear how a manufacturer interprets its measurements for determining a disc?s end of life. Among the manufacturers that have done testing, there is consensus that, UNDER RECOMMENDED STORAGE CONDITIONS, CD-R, DVD-R, and DVD+R discs should have a life expectancy of 100 to 200 years or more; CD-RW, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, and DVD-RAM discs should have a life expectancy of 25 years or more. Little information is available for CD-ROM and DVD-ROM discs (including audio and video), resulting in an increased level of uncertainty for their life expectancy. Expectations vary from 20 to 100 years for these discs.
So for a quick 'rule of thumb', under your typical 'average storage conditions' shelf life for a CD or DVD (-+R or -+RW) shelf life should be roughtly 25 years.
Regarding CD-ROM and DVD-ROM (molded aluminum--in other words, the ones you BUY from a store, and not burn yourself), based on the research I've done, they can last a few centuries, as long as they're well taken care of.
So if you wish to have your CD/DVD data outlive you, have them professionally aluminum molded!
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