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Dissipated in Microsoft Once Again

I was a Windows user for years; I loved my PC even when I had Widows Millennium. It had some bugs but I still liked the ease of using it. Another family member had 2000 and I could Fix or update items with ease.

I eventually upgrade to Windows XP and was blown away by the interface and the ease of use in updating and working with my apps and other items.

Then it happened, Service pack 2 came out. I could not wait I just new that MS was going to increase functionality and some bells and whistles so I jump in: with no life preserver, no land in site and barely new how to swim thinking the operating system would just take CARE of itself.

Then all things started to go wrong. To make a long story short I became an Apple user and have had a Mac for about 5 years.

I am a web developer and I need to test my work on all platforms but to avoid having to work with MS Windows I utilized items like Browser Stack and other Browser testing software.

Then I began looking at the reviews on Windows 8, they were great and I decided to pick up a Windows 8 PC. I got the Gateway All-in-one. It was beautiful I contacted my brother a fellow Mac user and told him how awesome Windows 8 was and that he needed to pick up a machine and just try it, he is considering this now.

BUT I WILL TELL HIM DONT DO IT NOW

THE NEW WINDOWS 8.1 ONE CAME OUT AND ONCE AGAIN I JUMPED IN WITHOUT A LIFE PRESERVER AND NO LAND IN SITE, BIG MISTAKE.

MY WINDOWS MACHINE IS NOW ALL MESSED UP, FIRST I HAD NO SOUND AND HAD TO UPDATE A DRIVER. NOW THE MACHINE RUNS SO SLOW AND HAS SO MANY BUGS THAT I DREAD TO EVEN TURN IT ON.

THE WORST PART IS THEY DID NOT LEAVE AN OPTION TO RETURTN TO THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS 8. ITS LIKE SOMEONE TIED BRICKS TO MY FEET AND NOW I JUST SINKING WITH NO WAY TO GET BACK TO THE SURFACE (PUN INTENDED).

MICROSOFT WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!!!!! YOU HAVE THE FUNDS, THE PERSONEL, THE EQUIPMENT AND THE RESOURCES TO BE THE BEST PC COMPANY IN THE BUSINESS AND YOU CONTINUE TO SEND OUT, UNTESTED PRODUCT.

IF JUST ONE OF YOUR TECHS WOULD HAVE DOWNLOADED AND TESTED THE 8.1 UPDATE YOU WOULD HAVE NOTICED ALL THE BUGS AND CORRECTED IT BEFORE YOU LAUNCHED IT.

SAME OLD MICROSOFT, NOTHING HAS CHANGED. YEAH YOU'RE PRETTY ON THE OUTSIDE BUT YOU STILL WORK UNDER THE SAME FRAMEWORK. SENDING OUT PRODUCTS BEFORE AMPLE TESTING IS COMPLETED.

YOU WANT TO MAKE THIS RIGHT... CREATE AN UPDATE THAT WILL ALLOW THOSE WHO WANT TO RETURN TO THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS 8 CAN DO SO. TO NOT INCLUDE THIS OPTION IN 2014 WAS JUST LAZY AND THAT'S THE ONLY WAY IT CAN BE SUMMED UP.

VERY!!, VERY!!, VERY!!, VERY!! DISAPPOINTED.

ILL BE RETURNING TO MY MAC NOW AND BROWSER TESTING WITH SOFTWARE AND RECOMMENDING TO OTHERS THAT THEY AVOID MS WINDOWS IF POSSIBLE.

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Did you back up before upgrading?

In reply to: Dissipated in Microsoft Once Again

Personally I always do a full system backup before putting any upgrade onto any of my computers. If you didn't, maybe you've learned via the school of hard knocks why you always should. I have two home computers and four I support that've been upgraded from 8.0 to 8.1 and beyond without problems. I do avoid metro/modern apps and IE though because I've found them very buggy. IE is buggy in both 7 and 8.x.

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Email notice received.

In reply to: Dissipated in Microsoft Once Again

Only a few folk have edit capability. When I make a typo I follow up with a correction.

As to your concerns, Windows continues or rather Microsoft is still back in the 90's or prior computing days where they expect folk to backup and learn about the OS and more. Decades have passed and consumers are not happy with being asked to be computer scientists or IT people. For those there are other machines like the iPad or similar devices.
Bob

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So basically

In reply to: Dissipated in Microsoft Once Again

So basically you have some minor driver issues and blame Microsoft instead of doing any kind of root-cause analysis. Like how one of the most common reasons for problems like yours is malware infestation. If you've been a long-time Mac user, you may well have developed some bad habits that will land you in some trouble on Windows.

I personally went kind of the opposite direction. After using Linux for several years I gradually had less and less time to deal with all the upkeep required on Linux, so moved to Windows. Then started using OS X between 10.3-10.7, but 10.7 was a huge turnoff for me. Up to that point, each version of OS X was better than the last, but 10.7 was just a shameless iOS-ification of Mac OS X. They inverted mouse settings on everyone and you could only change them back via the GUI if you had an Apple branded mouse, made the interface look like crap on toast and unlike previous versions of OS X, there were no significant technical improvements worth the bother. About the only good thing they did was drop OS X Server as a $500/seat product and turn it into a small add-on package, which is all it ever really was.

I also had a job where I dealt with mid-level Apple managers on a pretty regular basis and just got so sick and tired of the arrogance and holier-than-thou attitude that is beaten into everyone who works there. Not to mention you can't get a straight answer out of them on anything. I worked as a repair tech for Apple stuff and they literally complained because I went an extra step and made use of their own team of techs to double check some of my diagnoses, claiming I was using the resource they advocate using in their own certification training material and all over their GSX website, too much. When I asked them to give me a specific number for how much is too much... Silence. A lot of times I went the extra mile to get Apple's people to verify that some unit had liquid damage or what not and the middle manager flunky I dealt with actually agreed it was a good idea.

That's not even getting into how it's part of their business model to basically beat up on "partner" companies. They will pick some aspect of your business and continually brow beat you over how you need to improve on that. Nothing will ever be good enough either, because the point is to have you constantly chasing your tail. You'll turn your entire business upside down and once you reach the 51% point, that's when Apple will suddenly decide they don't care about that anymore, they want you to focus on something else instead. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum. The whole thing is designed to give their own stores an unfair advantage. Any AASP that might pose even the slightest bit of competition to an Apple Store is subject to this treatment. If you're a company wanting to service your own units, they don't give two craps about you and you'll have a hard time getting your service rep to even answer an email. Same as if you're 100 miles from the nearest Apple store. But if you might pose even the smallest hint of competition to an Apple Store they will land on you with everything they've got and threaten to rip up your AASP contract at every single turn if you don't do what they say. They will be verbally abusive in conference calls or in-person meetings and assuming you manage to get a word in edgewise, if you try and push back against some unreasonable demand, they'll just increase their demands.

As I said, the whole thing is aimed at giving their retail stores an unfair advantage, which is a rather blatant violation of anti-trust laws. If you have your own retail stores, you cannot show favoritism, that's the gist of the law. But they do it anyway. They do everything they can to make it as difficult as possible for any AASP that might compete with an Apple store to actually fix customer units. In addition to everything else I've outlined, they also tend to restrict access to a lot of parts needed to fix units. Like when they redesigned the MBAir to the wedge shape, very early on it became clear there was a serious defect in the logic board. Specifically with the GPU didn't seem to be properly soldered and would cause a pre-POST boot failure. Within about a month of the product being on the market, no independent AASP could get access to those motherboards. It took them like 3 generations to finally knock that problem out IIRC. So you, as an independent AASP have to send a customer's unit in to this repair depot, meaning you don't get any money for fixing it short of charging the customer above and beyond what they would pay at an Apple store or peddling some other crap on them, but you still get to take the blame if Flextronics (who runs Apple's mail-in repair business) botches the job. It's a ding on your "Service Excellence" score, which determines how much Apple pays you for warranty repairs the following month. I remember quite vividly one time getting one of those Air units back, taking the bottom cover off to look at it, and seeing how the Flextronics tech had apparently gotten some thermal paste on their hand and just decided to wipe it off all over the battery and everything else in sight. They also stripped out virtually every screw on the thing. There was no way in good conscience I could give that back to the customer, so I had to argue for an exemption on the total repair turnaround time metric so I could have Apple ship me some replacement screws.

Apple is a monopolistic company that is very reminiscent of Microsoft in the 90s and early 2000s. They just absolutely thumb their nose at the law and even more than that, they are clearly out of ideas. The infamous deep product development well has run dry and now all Apple is doing is aping what Android device makers have been doing for years now: Getting into the phablet business. There hasn't been anything of particular note to come out of that company since Steve Jobs kicked it. They had to photoshop out the camera bulge on the promo shots of the iPhone 6. The Mac Pro that probably gets confused as a trashcan quite often, and is just a repeat of the Cube, the iMac is slowly morphing into a giant iPad, pretty soon I'm guessing the MacBook Pro line will be retired and all there will be is the Air, which is basically little more than an iPad with its own keyboard. Now the iPhone is slowly growing in size and will probably slowly merge with the iPod and iPad Air. You'll have one model with cellular antennas and one with only wifi.

I for one, will avoid using their crap as much as I possibly can going forward and will not be sad to see them go when probably by the end of the next decade they will be back in the position of having only enough cash on hand to keep going for another couple of weeks and either someone buys them up outright or they get parceled out at the liquidation sale.

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Appreciated Responses

In reply to: So basically

Hello All,

I truly appreciate your responses. They seem to be well thought out, As for the type error advice I will remember it for future reference. I did not know that I would be unable to change any mistakes I am new to CNET forums.

I don't think that everyone took to heart what I stated. A person can only be disappointed by something you care about. The fact that we are in 2014 and I can still receive a bad update from the most powerful company in the computer business is not a good thing. Weather the problem was caused by malware or not. Backing up is always a good thing I am a web developer and backing up is part of my DNA.

Please understand my point I was disappointed. I was so blown away by the original widows 8 that I got excited about the update. I go to bed let the system update and could not wait to see what new items I had in the morning like Christmas.

I wake up and no sound, buggy movement, slow page load times and dll errors on my screen. I was so sure that everything would be OK that I did not even look at reviews until after I did the update. Now I wish I would have looked before, the reviews on the 8.1 update are very bad and if you think mine was bad please venture out and you will see that it is not compared to some others, expletive after expletive.

See This:
http://www.cnet.com/products/microsoft-windows-8-1/user-reviews/

My thoughts are, why release something that has defects. This is not some minor problem, millions of users ended up with no sound and no way to revert and get sound back and they are stuck until someone with knowledge can help them out. They don't know how to search for help so they call a PC repair company that charges them $300.00 for correcting the, as you stated minor problem.

For us or we who may be computer savvy we can fix sound in no time. What about the mom that lets her child listen or watch their favorite program before getting dropped off at daycare. Or the novice businessman who needs to review something on their way to crucial meeting right after the update but cant get to it because it wont load.

Who do these people blame, better yet do you blame them because they did not back up their system or know about malware.

Like I said I appreciate all of your responses but on your next response please state how you feel that you got something brand new only to need to have it fixed before you could actually use it. You don't have to take up for Microsoft with me. I will always use MS Products I just don't think in this day and age that these types of occurrences should happen.

Concerned

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The thing about defects...

In reply to: Appreciated Responses

There is no OS without defects. And then we have Windows. That is, Windows as an OS is actually OK but many folk new to Windows don't understand that if your WiFi dies on an update then it's rarely Microsoft at issue because the driver for the motherboard and WiFi is from someone else.

OK, what about Apple? They took another direction and don't allow a hodge podge of hardware. When you install an Apple OS then unless you are on some decade+ prior gen machine, the hardware just works.

Microsoft is from another time, consumers today may not know that or even want to know.
Bob

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Part of the problem

In reply to: Appreciated Responses

Part of the problem is that OEMs can customize the OS to some degree before shipping it and then we also get to how it was a big mistake to get both an Acer and an all-in-one. Acer is a company with a long documented history of cutting corners to save on costs, even at the expense of quality. I don't think at any point in the last 2 decades of so has the Acer brand ever been associated with quality. It's always been the bargain basement brand.

All Microsoft can do is generally guarantee that if you have a stock Windows install, you can install this other update without issue. Once you deviate even slightly from that stock Windows install, everything else goes out the window, no pun intended. Take the example from a couple years ago when there were reports of XP SP3 causing problems on systems with AMD CPUs. Turns out it only affected HP systems and it had to do with a shortcut HP took in making the Windows image they applied to all new units. The final analysis was basically that it shouldn't have worked for as long as it did, but a change in SP3 caused the whole house of cards to come crashing down. People who had stock XP installs with AMD CPUs were just fine. So sometimes even small deviations can have big impacts.

In your case, it sounds a lot like Acer just decided some old Vista or Windows 7 drivers worked well enough for Windows 8 and shipped with those. Then of course some change in 8.1 causes that to blow up in the face of everyone who bought one of those units.

As a web developer, think about all the work you have to go to in order to make sure every page you make looks correct in all desktop browsers and can even scale down to mobile devices. While it's probably gotten a lot easier of late, if you were doing web development back in the IE6 days, you remember how much work it could be to get anything beyond a very simple page to render the same in IE as any other browser? Now imagine you have a page with all the associated back end code that is tens of millions of lines of code and the joys of trying to get that to work properly in all browsers. That would give you a small taste of what it's like to be a regular software engineer.

Microsoft can't really control OEMs like Acer shipping buggy drivers any more than you can control someone with an old WAP phone trying to view any site you develop. Next time, if it were me, I'd stick to Dell on the desktop and on the laptop side you can add Toshiba. I don't recommend anyone else because they all have adopted one of Acer's key cost-saving measures of only building a fixed number of units for any given model before moving onto the next one. As a former repair tech, this meant that repair parts were often scarce, even for brand new units still under mfg warranty. I was personally witness to examples of Acer quoting like $400 to replace a video card that would retail for less than $150 for a unit still under warranty. The dump everything into the retail channel and the only parts held back for warranty purposes are from units that fail QA testing at the factory. Dell does an excellent job of stocking repair parts for every single model sold for like 5 years. Toshiba is often extremely slow when it comes to getting parts, but I've never seen them try and weasel out of warranty obligations like Acer did. One time where I worked we had 20-30 of the problematic Qossimo x303 and x305 units where some bright spark decided it would be a good idea to sandwich two high end video cards back to back in a laptop, which ended about as well as you'd expect. Toshiba sent one of their engineers to our site to inspect some of the units and then take that info back to the system designers.

Avoid Acer brands like the plague would be my advice. So no Acer, Gateway, eMachines, Packard Bell and probably a half-dozen other brand names they've hoovered up over the years when the company went belly up. A more complete listing is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acer_Inc.#Brands (be sure to go down a section or two as well)

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Im not sure that millions had no sound

In reply to: Appreciated Responses

because I installed 8.1 on 2 machines that I have. I installed it on 3 other machines for friends and not one of the PC's lost sound between 8.0 and 8.1. I would think if that many people had problems I would have seen a problem on at least one of the 5 machines. Those machines i installed one was 1 Dell Alienware, 2 Acers laptops, 1 HP desktop and a Dell desktop.

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I've had good luck with Acer products

In reply to: Dissipated in Microsoft Once Again

but most of those were high end products with top line components. I did buy a low price Acer when Windows 8 came out and it has been reliable. I shifted towards Acer because they made big screen laptops then all of a sudden concentrated on smaller screen system. I see they have a few more 17.3" screens now. Acer is different from also of the other Brands as they basically sell non-configurable system. They also sell different configurations of the same PC's in different countries. My Windows 7 Acer i purchased with the idea of upgrading to a bootable SSD immediately. Well it had 2 HD bays but the 2nd bay had a proprietary connector and you need a proprietary SATA adapter. I found one in Europe for the previous model and they told me it wouldn't work with my model then I found one in Canada. When I called Acer they said i wasn't able to do it with my model. Well they sold the same laptop in Australia with a SSD and HD or 2 HD's so I knew it was possible. Well the part in Canada was even an Acer part with an Acer part number. I purchased and it's been working for 4 years. Acers bad reputation comes from the number of low cost cheaper component systems they sell. The Gateway brand is now the same as Compaq is to HP. I remember back in the day loving my Gateway desktop when it was made in a bard in South Dakota. I still have my little rubber cow that shipped with the computer.

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Furthering The Discussion

In reply to: Dissipated in Microsoft Once Again

I know we are having a discussion and debate is always a good thing. To further our discussion I would like to state: when the company themselves does something that moves the conversation drastically it is a very significant thing.

Back in September MS stopped the update and removed all links pertaining to it until they could FIX! The problem. What this states there was such an outcry over this update that MS decided to remove it all together (something they never do).

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2014/04/15/microsoft-abandons-windows-8-1-take-immediate-action-or-be-cut-off-like-windows-xp/

This is not due to complaints from people like us who know how to go in and fix some problems. This is due to complaints by regular folks trying to do regular things and could not.

I would like everyone to take a look at these items and once your done please post your arguments on why this update is not the result of the most powerful Computer company not thoroughly testing its product before releasing it.

There is no other reason so many systems are experiencing that same issues, the problem is with the update and not with individual systems.

Please use all of you resources to debate, explain or express why you feel MS did not just ship and a totally inferior, non-tested product update to its loyal customer base. This should not happen. The problem I mainly have is the fact that when Windows 10 comes out the 10.1 update will crash systems because that's is who MS is as I stated in the initial post. They repeatedly send out product updates that are not tested and cause more problems that they fix.

Windows 8.1 update timeline

Launch

http://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-to-release-windows-8-1-update-on-april-8-for-free/

Bugs and problems reported

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2608134/microsoft-windows/the-new-kb-2919355-windows-8-1-update-causes-more-problems-than-it-fixes.html

http://www.geekwire.com/2014/dont-touch-update-microsoft-pulls-latest-patch-reports-crashes/


MS discontinues/pulls Windows 8.1 after so many complaints.

http://www.sitepronews.com/2014/08/18/microsoft-pulls-windows-patch-users-report-computer-crashes/

http://windowsitpro.com/windows-81/asking-do-over-microsoft-pulls-windows-81-august-update-too

http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-pulls-updates-recommends-uninstall-7000032678/

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2612028/microsoft-windows/microsoft-pulls-botched-kb-2871630--while-many-office-patch-problems-remain.html

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You're confused

In reply to: Furthering The Discussion

You're confused. Your central thesis seems to be that Microsoft stopped support for Windows 8.1, which it obviously didn't because people are still getting updates for Windows 8.1. What happened is Microsoft decided that all future updates would be based off of 8.1 Update 1. So you needed Update 1 installed before any additional updates could be installed.

If you think of 8.1 being like SP1 for previous operating systems, then Update 1 would be like SP2. If you look back, you'll see that Microsoft routinely required certain service pack levels to be installed for further updates to work. It's not even unprecedented for them to have some large "rollup" type patch that they then base future updates on. Win 8.1 came along about a year after 8.0, so more or less right on schedule for most SP1 releases in the past and Update 1 I do believe came roughly a year after 8.1, so again more or less right on schedule. Of course that doesn't fit with the narrative people want to tell, so it tends to get ignored.

What happened here is "reporters" who've gotten lazy just slapping their name on press releases, maybe adding a line or two, and calling it a story over the years got confused by the admittedly awkward naming system. Some of the links you yourself posted prove this and undermine your own thesis that Windows 8.1 was somehow abandoned. If it was abandoned back in April how then was it that Microsoft was pulling a couple of problematic updates for it earlier this month? Did you actually stop to read what it is your were posting at all?

Going even further, where is it stated in any of the articles you say are proof that 8.1 was abandoned based on complaints that 8.1 was abandoned at all? You post some articles about 2 updates from a recent patch tuesday update that had some issues. Again I'd point out that these patches were issues AFTER the articles you put up claiming that 8.1 is somehow being abandoned. How that works, I don't know, but I digress. It was two patches that affected primarily people who had a large number of custom fonts installed.

There was also never any planned "Update 2". That was something based purely on.... Well, none of the articles I've seen have even offered so much as a vague explanation for what they based that idea on. Not even a "confidential source" or something of that sort. They just completely ignore the whole bit about how they know this information is accurate. I'm not sure what kind of sloppy journalism this is the result of. Either readers so accustomed to just seeing press releases passed off as news stories they no longer think to question the accuracy of the sources or the shameless click-baiting that takes place on online news sites. InfoWorld posted some article about 8.1 Update 2 being just around the corner like a good TWO DAYS after Microsoft put up an official statement saying there would be no Update 2 and there was never even an Update 2 planned. Now let me think about which headline is likely to generate more clicks? One about how it turns out all this speculation and rumor was based on nothing more than fantasy or one about how some update is coming and then an angry follow-up when the made-up deadline comes and goes without said update? That's a tough one. You mind if I think about it some more?

In the interim, while I certainly applaud your effort to cite sources to support your argument, you should really take a little more time to make sure those sources are actually saying what you think they are. It's particularly embarrassing when your own sources contradict, if not the thesis directly, one of your central supporting arguments, not to mention contradict your other sources. That's just sloppy and I sincerely hope that this will be enough to make you strive to do a better job next time. A little lively debate is always a nice change of pace around here, but it takes all the fun out of it when you undermine your own argument.

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