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Dispute over deer stand leads to shootings

by Angeline Booher / November 21, 2004 11:17 PM PST
BIRCHWOOD, Wis. Nov 22, 2004 ? A deer hunter shot and killed five people and wounded three others in northwestern Wisconsin following a dispute about a tree stand during the hunt's opening weekend, authorities said.

The incident began when two hunters were returning to their rural cabin on private land in Sawyer County when they saw the suspect in one of their hunting platforms in a tree, County Chief Deputy Tim Zeigle said. A confrontation and shooting followed.

The dead included a a teenage boy and a woman, Zeigle said. A father and son were among them, he said. Some of the victims were shot more than once.

Zeigle said the suspect was "chasing after them and killing them," with a SKS 7.62 mm semiautomatic rifle, a common hunting weapon.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=272736

Angeline
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
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I heard about this yesterday. It really is a tragic thing.
by Kiddpeat / November 22, 2004 12:24 AM PST

This sounds like a very bad guy. Sad

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May have been a language barrier...............
by Tony Holmes / November 22, 2004 12:36 AM PST

judging by his name,the perpetratorof this idiocy was Thai.It's a shame Wis doesn't have the death penalty.

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(NT) (NT) language doesn't explain pursuing and shooting the woun
by Kiddpeat / November 22, 2004 6:37 AM PST
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(NT) (NT) Re: May have been a language barrier.Yah, right.
by caktus / November 23, 2004 9:26 AM PST
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How tragic :(
by MarciaB / November 22, 2004 12:34 AM PST

I was curious about this part, and maybe someone more familiar with weapons can respond:
" with a SKS 7.62 mm semiautomatic rifle, a common hunting weapon.

Is such a gun truly a common hunting weapon? Seems a bit much to me.

I have read similar stories about people here in the NW staking their claims to mushroom gathering grounds and shooting others that come into "their area," (also for marijuana - the Willamette Valley of Oregon is very fertile ground)

Shades of the gold rush days. Many folks died trying to defend their claim or get to others'. Is some venison and a rack of antlers, worth it? Apparently it is to some people - I don't understand the reasoning. Sad


.

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Re: How tragic :(
by Mark5019 / November 22, 2004 12:45 AM PST
In reply to: How tragic :(

sks is not a hunting rifle in my opinion unless its a 2 legged quary

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semi...
by Dick White / November 22, 2004 1:22 AM PST
In reply to: How tragic :(

I'm not a gun person, so I can't tell you the nuances of that particular model. Semi-automatic, though, is no big deal. That simply means that the next shell moves into the firing chamber automatically as the spent casing is ejected, without the shooter needing to unshoulder the weapon and manually reload for the next shot. The shooter must pull the trigger again for each shot, and most legit hunting weapons allow for only a reasonably small number of bullets to be loaded. For hunting, this is useful to quickly get off another shot as the animal moves past you.

That said, we do have a tragedy here. I wonder if the guy had some JackD to keep himself warm up there in the cold, windy tree stand? That common practice goes a long way to explain some of the nonsense that will occur yet again this hunting season.

dw

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(NT) (NT) Thanks DW and Mark
by MarciaB / November 22, 2004 5:17 AM PST
In reply to: semi...
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Why a 'bit much'?
by Edward ODaniel / November 22, 2004 4:59 AM PST
In reply to: How tragic :(

That is the sound of someone who has listened to the Brady Bunch and not bothered checking on how untruthful the Brady Bunch is.

The SKS (fires the reliable 7.62 X 39--7.62 is the diameter and 39 mm is the case length) is (as already noted) a semi auto rifle and it is reliable and relatively accurate and makes a fine hunting rifle.

Ballistically it is far more comparable to the good old .30-.30 than to other common but far more "powerful" hunting rifles such as the .308 Winchester (AKA 7.62 X 51 NATO) or the .30-06 or the 7 MM Remington Mag. It makes a pretty decent little "brush gun" but not a very good rifle for longer range shots.

That aside, it is indeed too bad about the "gunfight" but before blaming anyone we should await further info as the story itself indicates that at this point it is unknown who fired first as well as who shot whom.

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Re: Why a 'bit much'?
by Hounddog / November 22, 2004 5:18 AM PST
In reply to: Why a 'bit much'?

I've been hunting for 50+yrs and would never go in the bush with anyone carrying a semi auto rifle.Some guys get very excited after that first shot and a slip or fall could cause rifle to discharge.Already too many hunting accidents.Anyone who does much hunting with either bolt or lever and keeps their cool can get off shots fast enough.For yrs I used old enfield 303 bolt action and now have browning 308 lever.Mostly used for moose and great for long shots.

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Why blame the gun?
by MarkatNite / November 22, 2004 9:24 AM PST
In reply to: Re: Why a 'bit much'?

>"Some guys get very excited after that first shot and a slip or fall..."

This is operator error; most likely due to a violation of one of the basic rules of firearm safety: keep your finger off the trigger until you are prepared to fire. It has nothing to do with the type of action (semi/bolt/lever/etc.).

Mark

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Besides, this was no accident
by Josh K / November 22, 2004 10:04 PM PST
In reply to: Why blame the gun?

These shootings were not caused by careless handling of the semi-automatic weapon. The shooter did what he did deliberately.

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Re: Besides, this was no accident
by Dan McC / November 22, 2004 11:59 PM PST

Hold on, Josh. We haven't heard this guy's defense yet. He may go the 'it went off accidentally' route.

Dan

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(NT) (NT) while he chased them lol acident my eye
by Mark5019 / November 23, 2004 12:02 AM PST
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The ''Claudine Longet'' defense?
by Josh K / November 23, 2004 12:30 AM PST

There's a bit of SNL history for ya!

Devil

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Re: The ''Claudine Longet'' defense?
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / November 23, 2004 6:33 AM PST

Hi, Josh.

I don't recall them ever covering the SECOND annual Claudine Longet Spider Sabitch Memorial Ski Shoot, do you?

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Re: The ''Claudine Longet'' defense?
by David Evans / November 23, 2004 1:48 PM PST
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(NT) (NT) lol
by Mark5019 / November 23, 2004 7:42 PM PST
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Uh, Josh?
by MarkatNite / November 23, 2004 3:21 PM PST

Do you realize that I'm going to have to agree with you, in a gun thread? Wink

Happy Thanksgiving - Mark

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It's been a strange year, hasn't it
by Josh K / November 23, 2004 10:01 PM PST
In reply to: Uh, Josh?

I'd just as soon not open up the "should he have had that gun in the first place" can-o-worms. Not right before a holiday anyway.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours as well.

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Believe it or not but...
by Edward ODaniel / November 23, 2004 5:52 AM PST
In reply to: Re: Why a 'bit much'?

semi-autos have safetys too.

An accidental discharge caused by an "excited" hunter likely would have happened regardless of the firearm being semi-auto, lever action, bolt action or even a muzzle loader.

In short it is not the firearm but the person handling it (and I would MUCH rather be accidently shot by a careless hunter with an SKS than a careless hunter with a bolt action .300 Magnum.

Again, the SKS makes a fine and extremely reliable "brush gun" for someone wanting an inexpensive and reasonably accurate hunting rifle although it will not be, nor should it be, the hunting rifle of choice for everyone. It is a personal preference and no more right or wrong than any other choice among calibers accepted by a state's F & G Department.

There is nothing inerently bad or evil in one's choice to use a semi-auto in general or an SKS in specific.

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Re: Why a 'bit much'?
by MarciaB / November 22, 2004 5:21 AM PST
In reply to: Why a 'bit much'?

Well, Ed, I'm not really sure at all what the Brady Bunch has to do with my question - apparently my naivete about guns comes from some other source Wink

I do, however, appreciate your information.

Take care,
--Marcia, Marcia, Marcia
Happy


.

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Re: Why a 'bit much'?
by cbbrown / November 22, 2004 5:34 AM PST
In reply to: Re: Why a 'bit much'?

don't think he means the brady bunch of tv fame but more likely the brady bunch born of the shooting of james brady former white house press secretary to ronald reagan

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Thanks, CB
by MarciaB / November 22, 2004 5:56 AM PST
In reply to: Re: Why a 'bit much'?

Guess that's even more strange to me, then - although I suppose it makes more sense than The Brady Bunch from TV - LOL at myself Wink

I'm not sure how my comment sounded like I supported gun control issues or not. I was only trying to understand what they were talking about in the article; and in my brain that knows lots about computers but nothing about guns, I "ASSumed" that semi-automatic meant something more than the usual hunting gun.

I should have been more concise, I guess.

Thanks again,
Marcia


.

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Re: Thanks, CB
by cbbrown / November 22, 2004 6:01 AM PST
In reply to: Thanks, CB

i'm not into guns either and at first I took his Brady Bunch the way I think you may have

i might have said Brady bunch

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Re: Thanks, CB - now that I re-read these
by MarciaB / November 22, 2004 7:11 AM PST
In reply to: Re: Thanks, CB

messages, I do have to admit that I sorta feel like a dork! Wink

Not the first time, nor will it be the last. LOL

Have a nice day,
--Marcia


.

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Re: Thanks, CB - now that I re-read these
by cbbrown / November 22, 2004 7:21 AM PST

not to worry marcia

have a nice turkey day Happy

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Re: Why a 'bit much'?
by Roger NC / November 23, 2004 12:28 AM PST
In reply to: Why a 'bit much'?

A different account, but some parts of it make me a bit suspicious of the reporters point of view.

"The suspect got down from the deer stand, walked 40 yards, fiddled with his rifle. He took the scope off his rifle, he turned and he opened fire on the group," Meier said.


And I think I read in the local paper that only one of the 5 killed originally had a gun with him.

Unfortunately, the fact there was already some friction between members of two local communities makes the situation even murkier.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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Re: How tragic :(
by John Robie / November 22, 2004 7:01 AM PST
In reply to: How tragic :(

Believe Ed described the SKS 7.62 mm semiautomatic rifle pretty well. My son has one, is a big deer hunter, but likes and uses a Winchester bolt action .270 for its flat shooting and accuracy. My last hunting rifle was a Remington bolt action 7mm Mag, another flat shooting accurate rifle, but after much use the chrome barrel started giving problems on accuracy, so I sold it.

I used a .30-30 cal Win lever action for years as my 1st deer rife, graduating to a .308 Cal Winchester Semi-Auto then to a bolt action .30-06 for a little more accuracy..then to the 7mm Mag.

That .308 semi-auto was great for running shots, and I was good enough (in my younger days) to hit fast running game with it. I later gave up running shots for a good accurate bolt action rifle putting a well place 1st shot. I do like the M1 Garrand Military .30-06 which is semi-auto, and can be made pretty accurate when worked on.

That guy killing people over a game stand reminds me of a situation some years ago in Texas. Here, land is leased to hunters by the year, and you don't trespass or shoot game in another's 'pasture'. Many years ago while hunting in 'our' leased land, I heard two shots fairly close, and knew that others on our lease were no where near, so I started walking towards the sound. I came across a hunter who was 'gutting' a nice Buck about 20 yards outside the fence of our property. He was startled when I appeared at the fence line and I said Hi. He looked at his rifle laying nearby and then at me with my rifle in hand, started shaking, and I though he was going to have a heart attack. It was very obvious that he shot the deer on my leased property, with drag marks and a blood trail leading through the fence. The guy look elderly with gray hair, about like I look now, and could hardly talk shaking violently. I guess he expected me to shoot him. Looking at his age and the panic he was in, I tried to be calm and told him it was a nice Buck he had and if he need help. I acted like I didn't see the blood trail and drag marks, and he calmed down. After some more pleasantries, I wonder off, him wishing me well.

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Re: How tragic :(
by xerpor / November 22, 2004 4:35 PM PST
In reply to: Re: How tragic :(

Interesting experience. Enjoyed reading your story very much. However, I think I may would have been afraid to turn my back on the old gentleman. The fact that he eyed his rifle when you showed up would have worried me.

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