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General discussion

Difference between Mac & PC hardware

Jul 13, 2007 5:44PM PDT

Hello my friends,

I'm going to buy a MacBook Pro very soon and i was just wondering if there is a serious difference between Mac and Pc hardware.

I know how to assemble a Pc but because i've never touched a Mac hardware and i don't even know how it looks like inside i don't know if i would be able to start playing with it Wink

Let's just not talk about Mac laptops but also iMac. Please provide me any useful information that you have. I'm asking this specialy from people who have the experience of using both of Mac & Pc

Thanks

Discussion is locked

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Today?
Jul 13, 2007 11:12PM PDT

It's very much the same electrically. I'm unsure if the minor differences are worth it to you but some have a difficult time understanding a polished system does fetch a premium.

To gain this knowledge you have to get some exposure to Apple products. No matter how many years I've talked about it, those that don't dive in never quite get it.

Case in point? Install the MacOSX and compare the experience with your usual built PC.

Bob

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I'm there with Bob...
Jul 14, 2007 1:41AM PDT

Define "serious difference".

Integrated circuit chips plugged into sockets, or soldered directly, to boards... Resistors... capacitors... diodes... SATA hard drives from Western Digital or some other manufacturer; DDR or whatever RAM from whatever manufacturer; ATI Radeon or NVIDIA graphics boards... 10/100/1000 baseT copper ethernet, 802.11g or n, standard USB, standard FireWire... Pretty much many of the same items you'll find in any higher-end computer...

The differences will be in the firmware in those ICs, and of course, the operating system you choose to run on that hardware.

Just like you can't make your own HP/Compaq or Toshiba or Sony or Dell or whatever other name brand computer out there - BIOS and firmware and minor tweaks make each manufacturer different, you can't "make" your own Apple Macintosh. Yes, you can "make" your own computer and run an operating system on it - Linux or some other form or Unix - or Windows... Apple's Operating System licensing and IPR in the ICs does not allow you to install MacOSX on just any old machine.

So... when you get a MacBook Pro, what exactly are you wanting to do to it? Install RAM? Replace the hard drive? Laptops - Apple or otherwise - have never been "tinker-friendly"... Same with all-in-one machines (iMacs or HPs or Dells)... "Tinker friendly" machines are typically towers with card slots... but generally speaking, it is the "secret sauce" on the motherboards and the CPUs + the OS that make the machine different... Remember, an Intel Core Duo or is still an Intel Core Duo... The manufacturers have to have a competitive edge, and that generally comes in the way of either price or features.

Just like comparing cars... A Kia has pretty much the same "things" a Cadillac has... air conditioner compressor and vents, seats, sound system, motor, tires, alternator, fuel injector, etc... but one costs more and, for the most part, the parts are not interchangeable... and just because you know all about one does not mean you know all about the other. It is the differences - price and features - that appeal to different people.

By the way, I used to be an Information Technology (IT) manager with a crew of 6 folks and we responsible for ~500 Windows and ~500 Macs and all the LAN/WAN interconnectivity between 13 offices in California... In my current gig, my company makes me use an HP/Compaq laptop running Windows XP - but I have always spent my own hard-earned money on Apple Macintosh computers. Currently, family members have a G5 flatpanel iMac, a G4 tower, a CoreDuo flatpanel iMac and a G4 laptop... and the HP/Compaq nc6220... all happily sharing the LAN and DSL to the internet.

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thanks
Jul 15, 2007 11:14AM PDT

Thank you for the useful information that you gave me, i realy appreciate it.

If you can talk more about your Mac machine ( the model, advantages and disadvantages, using different programs with it ) & any other useful information that might tempt me more to get my Mac, please don't hesitate Wink

Thank you again

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what's to "tempt" you?
Jul 15, 2007 11:33AM PDT

You already said, "I'm going to buy a MacBook Pro very soon".

I could use Microsoft Office on my Mac - but I have no use for it - NeoOffice or OpenOffice are free open source downloads and I trade with my work issued XP machine pretty regularly - and have not yet seen a compatability issue. That said, the Mac version of MS Office has more features that the Windows verson... But that's been the case for many years.

I've been editing 1080i high-definition video for a couple of years at this point on my flatpanel iMac G5. I guess one of these days I could upgrade for faster CoreDuo or QuadCore CPU - hence faster rendering - but I don't know what all that rush is about.

My company is not moving to upgrade to Vista because there are still too many "unknowns"... translated - we have not had time to train the support folks offshore... I work for a company with ~30,000 employees in several dozen countires...

When you are ready, you can step into MacOS... it is a lot like moving from a Camaro to a Cadillac CTS... I did that a few years ago and really have no desire to go back... But there isn't a lot I can say to "tempt" you.

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so moving is good !
Jul 15, 2007 11:51AM PDT

I live in europe and honestly i don't know Camaro & Cadilac CTS like Mercedes & BMWs so can you please compare windows & OS X with german cars? Happy))) (kidding)

All i can say is that till now NOBODY said a thing agaist OS X & as i said before can't wait to try it.

Thank you

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replacing components in macbook and imac
Jul 21, 2007 5:03AM PDT

The major components used in iMac and MacBooks are a subset of those used by many other PC manufacturers. However, Apple has made it quite difficult for you to do much in the form of customization or upgrades for their all-in-ones (iMac. mini) and laptops.

First of all, the enclosures are all custom and the way parts fit into place were designed specifically for saving space and cooling. Taking one apart is usually very complicated and will void your warranty. If you do replace a component, you need to make sure it is the same size and uses the same connectors (usually not a problem). You generally can't add something that isn't already there - your work will almost always be a replacement and not an addition.

The second problem is mostly a software issue. You will be limited to devices and components that have standard interfaces that are supported by OSX and its drivers. If you include an "exotic" device that requires special software, you may be out of luck. Apple isn't very good at providing you such a list. Part of their shtick is that they take care of all of the integration issues when they designed the iMac and MacBooks freeing their customers to focus on what matters most - using the computers. This is at odds with the goals of computer hobbyists but they aren't Apple's target market.

There are several sites that provide step-by-step directions, sometimes with video, to perform various upgrades. You should check those out before you decide to take this on yourself. I've used www.xlr8yourmac.com in the past to successfully upgrade my powerbook's hard drive from a 40GB drive to 120GB (it was out of warranty).

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example of an exotic device
Jul 21, 2007 7:57AM PDT

Could you provide one please.

P

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how about ...
Jul 21, 2007 12:52PM PDT

... a slot loading Blu-ray or HD-DVD drive to replace the provided superdrive. There are no Apple device drivers in OSX for either of those at this time. If you try to upgrade to such a device, you better make sure the device manufacturer provides the appropriate Apple drivers for you (most don't bother).

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Fairly exotic
Jul 21, 2007 11:45PM PDT

but isn't that the same as putting an obscure modem into a WinBox and not being able to find drivers for it.
XP, Vista or OS X do not contain drivers for everything and the manufacturers need to step up to the plate and provide drivers for their products rather than relying on the OS manufacturers to supply everything for them.

Even something as mundane as the integrated Broadcom Gigabit ethernet controller on a Dell motherboard has no drivers available for it in XP and Vista, the manufacturer stepped up on this one.

Apple & MS only put drivers into their OS's to provide a convenience for their customers, not for the benefit of the manufacturers.
Manufactures who ignore in excess of 10 million users are being very short sighted. It's only the driver that is different, the hardware is identical.

Point taken though

P

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there's exotic and there's also obscure :-)
Jul 22, 2007 2:59AM PDT

Yes, it is the same. I guess the point I didn't try hard enough to make is that Apple isn't all that interested in trying to cover all of the various devices you might put into an iMac or a powerbook as they try their best to keep the variety of supported configurations in the wild to a minimum. Because of this, they don't necessarily provide out of box support for all of the obscure or exotic devices that you might be able to stick into an IDE, SATA, or some other such "standard" plug inside the devices. So if you decide to put in such a device, you should make sure the manufacturer of said device provides a mac driver.

I have many horror stories about driver support from the major manufacturers. Apple does a much better job making sure their OS updates support "their" devices than the PC manufacturers. Dell and others frequently "orphan" their laptops after only 18-24 months w.r.t. support for drivers and such. Try getting a new ATI video driver to fix incompatibilities in DirectX for a Dell laptop a couple of years after the sale. The irony is that you may have to go to HP to find one that works.

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shoud i take it or not?
Jul 28, 2007 3:30AM PDT

thank you for your intressting answer.

so basically you are criticizing apple for it's limitation in hardware compatibility and also softwares compatible with the OSX.

Well about software i don't know if you've seen the WWDC's video in apple.com : http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc07/ Steve Jobs is explaining how many important software companies have started their cooperation with Apple for designing softwares compatible with Apple computers. I think that Apple is getting out of this limitation circle in order to attract more people by making their computers more popular, making them more easy to use by using more applications

About the hardware limilation that you said well personaly i think that the more you concentrate on something, the more you get it work better. It's true that in PC computers you have more ability for the hardware compatibility but you have more bugs and hardware problems as you can see today.

Mac is offering a certain number of hardware in their computers but there's much less problem for sure ! people who have Mac are 100% satisfied ( in general ) and normaly they don't need to do hardware changes for at least several years & i think that's a benefit.

What i realy appreciate about Mac is that they don't use rubish hardware in what they sell.Let's consider Mac's new laptop, MacBook Pro 17", 2.4Ghz, 2GB RAM. If you look at the characteristics in their web site, for every piece of hardware they have used a powerful enogh hardware from the best brand in the market.In your opinion if i get such a system am i still going to need to do serious hardware upgrades in the future?

can't wait to hear your opinion Wink

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not being critical...
Jul 28, 2007 5:13AM PDT

I'm really not being critical of Apple at all. I have 2 Macs at home and will likely be replacing one of them soon.

Your original question was about adding components to Apple laptops and all-in-one type computers such as the iMac and the mini. The main point I was trying to make was that you must be careful about adding things to your iMac/Macbook.

Since these computers are presumably "limited" in their ability to be customized, Apple does not have the same responsibility to provide all of the software and firmware support for the types of things you may choose to stick inside of them. The fact that opening up and performing those upgrades voids your warranty illustrates that Apple would rather you not do those types of upgrades. So if you open one up, you are on your own and your success will depend upon a lot of unknown factors. You want to replace your hard drive with a larger one, no problem (outside of the warranty and issues opening up the case). Need more memory - usually no problem. Want to replace your superdrive with a new, cool Blueray device - most likely a problem. In those cases, your best bet is to use firewire or USB enabled external devices.

I agree with others that Apple does a very good job of designing computers with enough power to do the tasks that you are buying for today. When Apple customers buy their macs, they generally get all of what they are paying for and more. Still, they are not future proof.

As to whether you will want or need to upgrade in the future, it will depend upon what you will do in the future. For most things, you will be fine. But as with any closed system (whether it be a Dell, HP, or Acer laptop or an Apple laptop), your ability to adjust to new tasks or changes may be limited in the future because the systems aren't designed to be upgraded easily. Your mileage may vary based upon what you want to do and your ability to do it.

When you buy a MacBook, or frankly any laptop, be prepared to replace it in 3-5 years. I've got a 4.5 year old iMac and my kids are begging me for an upgrade. Those new 24", dual-core iMacs sure do look sweet.

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hard to decide between MacBook Pro 17" & the iMac 24"
Jul 28, 2007 7:27AM PDT

i agree with your opinion about upgrading laptops in general & i should mention that at your frist reply i felt that you were attacking Apple Wink

well as you say computers should be changed after 3 to 5 years of use. I mean the technology moves on and even if our system is working well we still need to change in order to get what others get with the new technology.

To be honest my problem is to choose between MacBook Pro 17" with it's super design and handling and the iMac with it's super giant screen with it's exotic colors ( i went to Apple shop and i saw it's screen changing the background every 15 seconds, omg can't ignore it's beauty )

honestly don't know what to do Happy

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to move or not to move...
Jul 28, 2007 8:44AM PDT

Tough choice. If you have to move it around a lot, the laptop sounds like the right answer. If you really don't need to be mobile, the iMac sure looks enticing.

If you have the cash, buy the 24" iMac and get the 13" MacBook for walking around. Or blow off the MacBook and get an iPhone Happy.

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MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo vs. PC's
Jul 21, 2007 2:47PM PDT

Pay strict attention to what 1 respondent said about WARRANTY: You WILL keep your hands out of a MacBook Pro's insides for anything other than possibly upgrading memory or you automatically VOID YOUR WARRANTY. I have been using Macs since March 6, 1984. If there is ANY sign that you have opened up your Mac to the Apple-trained techs., you are DONE. I plan to replace this PowerBook G4 15" 1.5 GHZ with a MacBook Pro 15" in October, so I can get 64-bit Leopard in the deal. I will add after-market memory to the max. of 4 GB because Apple's is 4X expensive, BUT it WILL be functionally equal to Apple's.

And I have gotten my $$$-worth out of my Apple Care: I had the HD, display, memory, and keyboard replaced under warranty. No problem since. I received this PowerBook in June, 2004.

But then there's really no point to messing around inside a Mac: They just work! Microsoft cannot match OS X for ease of use & functionality, AND not for $139 US (there's only _1_ version of Leopard that does better than what ALL versions of Vista do). Euro-4-Euro, no version of Vista will match what even Tiger can already do! And there are NO licensing issues with Apple as there are with Microsoft.

P.S.; I have just retired from a career of maintaining PC's and larger computers & networks. I have NEVER owned one!!

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explain more please
Jul 28, 2007 5:21AM PDT

Thanks for your intressting answer. Well you've created some new questions in my mind Wink

1-you are going to buy your MacBook Pro on October. before finding out that you just retired i said to myself that maybe you want to use the student offer which is cheaper Happy)))) well i think Leopard is coming out on that time, am i right? somebody told me that it already came out in US.

2-Tell me about the difference of price for installing the 4GB memory, when you ask Apple to do it or when you do it by yourself. Is it hard to do so? and when you say that the computer should not be opened then how should people change the RAM? could you explain more please?

3-About your Apple Care just tell me HOW THE HECK you managed to break your HD, display, memory, and keyboard in 3 years of time? I mean did you play football with it? Happy)))) explain more about Apple Care please Happy

Thank you again for your answer

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Memory upgrades
Jul 28, 2007 5:45AM PDT

For memory in a Macbook, Apple provides two memory slots. While it varies from model to model, you can usually add more or upgrade what you have without needing to take the notebook apart. See http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/MacBook_13inch_Memory_DIY.pdf for instructions on how to do this.

Memory is almost always cheaper from others than Apple. Sometimes, dramatically cheaper.

Leopard is not out - it won't be out until October. You can safely bet that Leopard can easily run on any computer you buy from Apple (or have bought from Apple over the last 3 years). The upgrade price will be minimal, but it won't be free. However, it is possible that Apple will offer a coupon or discount on Leopard for those who buy new computers in the fall - but you can't really count on it.

I've only had to replace hard drives in my Macs, but it isn't just an issue for Apple - all of the PC vendors use the same hard drive technologies and suppliers. Hard drives fail. Be sure to maintain a backup of all those photos and videos Happy.

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Macintosh Support
Jul 25, 2007 1:03AM PDT

Hi, all member
i am nagmani rai,i am working with applecomputer since last 3 yrs,right now as Sr. Support Executive in Apple Computer(m/s Unicorn Infosolutions pvt. ltd, New Delhi) .i want to share every problems and solutions to all.

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Then tell me this.
Jul 25, 2007 1:20AM PDT

What USB to RS232 adapters do you use?

Also which work in Parallels running Windows 2000 or XP?

This is obscure information that I think I'll have to discover myself since it's for industrial equipment control. There is not a chance we'll port it to pure MacOSX today.

Also, does the Web Browser control in VB6 have an equivalent in Real Basic?

Looking forward to see your answers on these fairly advanced questions.

Bob