Did Pentagon drag its feet about iraq prison problem?

Well, the four were killed by terrorists. On the other hands, the torture and cruelty and humiliation was done by their self styled 'liberators'.

I know, I know, several reprimands have already been given. That will sure teach the rest of them. Don't mistreat the prisoners or you'll get a piece of paper put in a folder. Even the helpless victims must be cringing at the harshness of this punishment.

I guess the insects you're talking about are the liberated Iraqis who have complaints about their treatment under the boot of their liberators. While the thousands of accusations of rape, cruelty, theft, brutality, use of unwarranted force, etc. may all be false, it's a little bit harder to make blanket denials when faced with the now public documentation.

Where's the outrage against those who committed and encouraged this treatment of prisoners? They have absolutely done more damage to whatever effort we were trying to make, and given more assistance to whatever enemies we have in the area than all of the peace demonstrators ever did. Where are the calls of treason?

Dan

The few that have gotten reprimands are just the beginning.

There are several more that have been charged and are facing courts martial.

I cannot imagine the excuses being given. There may well be outside influences involved, but no influence, including 'direct orders', can be used as a legitiment excuse.

The harm done to this country by these few individuals is incalculable.

Hi, Del.

The real question is whether it was just a few individuals. The lawyer for a couple of the accused appeared on the Today Show this morning and said >> that the photographs of the Iraq prisoners that have inspired widespread revulsion "were obviously staged" in order to manipulate the prisoners into cooperating with intelligence officials. "They were part of the psychological manipulation of the prisoners being interrogated. It was being controlled and devised by the military intelligence community and other governmental agencies, including the CIA" The soldiers, he said, were simply "following orders." <<
This is in line with the comments of General Karpinski, formerly in charge of the prison, that the wing where the abuse occurred was under the control of CIA and civilian intelligence operatives who declared the wing off-limits to insiders, including her.

There have also been occasional (unverified) reports of abuse at Guantanamo, and according to the this L. A. Times , the still-secret Pentagon report says that 'last summer a team from the U.S. detention facility in Guantanamo Bay visited Iraq and recommended that MPs act as "an enabler for interrogation".'
(LA Times login speakeasygang; pw = speakeasy).

I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but this sounds to me like the initial unraveling of a systemic web of abusive interrogation, rather than a few MPs who got carried away.

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
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The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

Just because he makes the statement does not lend it any actual basis in fact. It is an assumption at this time and one should not allow oneself to go off half cocked thinking that such claims are necessarily fact.

While this ASSUMPTION may well be completely true or completely false or somewhere in between the extremes it is rather meaningless to pin one's hopes on unfounded allegations by a defendant's lawyer.

How about waiting and seeing rather than pre-judging?

Military members are not expected to follow unlawful
orders/instructions, regardless of the circumstances.

This episode is purely a Right from Wrong. If the individuals
involved could not determine the difference, perhaps their
upcoming trials will be an education.

I doubt a General Officer, who commands the unit to which
those troops were assigned, and a unit whose mission was
to provide security/guard service, would be denied access.
Duckin and dodgin going on here.

With matters this crucial to the effort in Iraq and the entire middle east, the higher ups must recognize their role. If they do not see the implications of incidents like this they should be seeking other employment.

Dan

..particularly in an election year, but I just hope they, and the Congress, keep out of it until the ongoing investigations are complete.

Corrective actions, and admonishments/punishments are the rightful responsibility of the Chain of Command in Theater.

As I said earlier in another thread, I knew about some of this last November, and I'm sure those in Wash DC knew a lot more than I.

The Taguba report indicates that these abuse incidents occured in Oct/Nov '03, and apparently were isolated to two facilities and a small group of US individuals.

The Taguba report hilites some serious shotcomings in the Command Structure/Personnel of this Reserve Unit, which I suspect is systemic in the entire reserve theory, but that is for another thread at another day.

If they are even imagining the electoral implications of this brutality then they should be kicked out on their asses. The implications go so far beyond the petty political concerns of this administration that they should not be in the same building. Most especially if that building is the Pentagon.

The effects of this in Iraq will be bad enough. The worst effects will be in the hampering of our efforts in this entire region, and in similar regions across the globe, for the next generation. Every time we discuss a military operation in a Muslim nation these pictures will come out again. During every trade negotiation, every peace negotiation, every attempt to send in peacekeeper or relief troops. The guys in theater screwed this up hugely, not only for themselves but for the soldiers that will follow them for years. The first step is going to have to be harsh punishment for anyone involved. That means hard time. This will mean only a little to the cultures that we have assaulted. Trying to pass off reprimands as punishment will be the equivalent to pissing on their shoes. If these countries and their people trusted us little before, how much do they trust us now?

This is a global problem with very long-term geopolitical implications. It must be handled like it.

Dan