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General discussion

David Chan,Some questions before I go

Nov 19, 2003 2:09AM PST

off to safeboot land on my XP Home computer, looking for my "hidden administrator account",if there is one??? What is this Recovery Console I have been reading about? To my knowledge we( my wife and I are the only users) don't have and never have had a password for this computer.Do I need One? And what do I need to do "if" it won't boot to the "Bliss" screen? What do I do ? How do I get back out of Safeboot? Sorry for all the questions .. But I can see that even after having and useing computers for 5 years now ,there is alot I don't know and a lot M$ "forgot" to tell the( average Joe) home user!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, Rick
P.S. I hope to have some time tomorrow, to work on this Issue.. Thanks again for your help so far..

Discussion is locked

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Rick, Some answers for your questions...Part1!!
Nov 19, 2003 3:40AM PST

"What is this Recovery Console I have been reading about?"

Answer:
The Recovery Console is a very powerful tool included in the XP installation CD that allows the Administrator user account to fix a troubled or sick XP. It can actually be installed as an application and then will allow you to select to boot into the Recovery Console directly. But this method is best used for System Admin in a Corporation as you do not want a Guest User to accidentally boot into the Recovery Console and wreck havoc with your PC!
Here are some links on the Recovery Console:

Windows XP Recovery Concole Overview

Also read my post on this:
http://reviews.cnet.com/5208-6142-0.html?forumID=5&threadID=3380&messageID=40047

As I mentioned the Recovery Console allows you to fix your Master BootRecord, fix your boot config, partition your HDD, Format your partitions, Copy & replace corrupt system files, perform ChkDsk and delete those stubbon files that cannot be deleted in Windows and even logon your XP.

"To my knowledge we( my wife and I are the only users) don't have and never have had a password for this computer.Do I need One?"

Answer:
Do you intend to start using Scheduled Tasks to schedule Backups and other tasks?
If so you'll need an account with Password.
Otherwise there is no need for a password in your situation.
Even if you set a password for one account you can use TweakUI to set your PC to auto-logon to an account of your choice.

to be continued...

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Re:Rick, Some answers for your questions...Part 2!!
Nov 19, 2003 3:41AM PST

"And what do I need to do "if" it won't boot to the "Bliss" screen? What do I do?"

Answer:
If based on the tests I prescribed in that post and it won't boot into the new Desktop it means that you are using the "Hidden" Administrator as your day-to-day user account which is what we shall now call "Playing Russian Roulette" as one day you'll shoot yourself if the user account gets corrupt!
If it co0mes to that situation post back and we can discuss how to rectify the situation. It'll take a number of posts to cover the solution in this new Forum S/W! Sad

"How do I get back out of Safeboot?"

Answer:
If you boot into Safe Mode the normal way you simply use the Start | Turn Off | Restart your PC and it will boot into the normal mode.

If you had set it in Boot.ini tab.
Start | Run: msconfig
Clcik the BOOT.INI tab and uncheck the option /SAFEBOOT and exit.

"Sorry for all the questions .."

Don't be.
I'll be sorrier (if there is such a word) if you don't ask any questions and sort out your Administrator vs User accounts issue and wake up one day to a corrupt profile requiring a format and reinstall.
It is through these interchange of ideas that we all learn and benefit from each other.

Keep those questions coming!
Or else I'll lose my job here!
(as a non-paid volunteer Mod)! LOL!!

Always glad to assist.

Happy

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David, sorry to butt in, but may be relative
Nov 19, 2003 4:15AM PST

Guess I did the bad thing.
After I installed XP about 18 months ago, I did get rid of some of the default accounts listed, and am using the administrator account which I renamed. ( I think that's what I did, since it has been a while. Senile you know..)

Anyway, the accounts I have listed are, All Users, Chuck (which I just created last week), RC (which I think was the Administrator account, and is the one I normally use), and Default User (hidden).

So, finally the question. Can I just create a new account, name it Administrator, leave it alone, and be relatively safe again?
Seems like this topic has opened a can of worms, so any suggestions are appreciated. Oh, and I read your dialog with Ray Harinec. Maybe something didn't sink in. The old "Dummy Syndrome" here Happy

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XP Home Hidden Administrator
Nov 19, 2003 4:35AM PST

is only accessible via the Welcome Screen from within Safe Mode. XP Pro offers a different means of accessing

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Thanks LarryD, but
Nov 19, 2003 4:59AM PST

just tried this, and had no Welcome Screen in Safe Mode. No Administrator folder in Docs and Settings, and Ctrl, Alt, Delete, only brought up Task Manager. What am I doing wrong here?

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Ray there is another way...
Nov 19, 2003 5:04AM PST

Start | Run: msconfig
click the BOOT.INI tab.
Check the option /SAFEBOOT
OK and restart and it should get into the Safe Mode.

Once all done after you reboot into XP you can reverse the action and uncheck /SAFEBOOT.

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(NT)That works. Same results though
Nov 19, 2003 6:14AM PST

..

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Ray,,,You belong to the category of the naughty man who renamed the Administrator!
Nov 19, 2003 4:58AM PST

I am very keen to explore how we can fix this.
Are you willing to be the Guinea pig?

OK. Based on info todate...

The original ("Hidden") Administrator account was the first one set up when XP is installed.

The moment a User account account is set up this Administrator account vanishes from the Welcome screen and you cannot logon to the Administrator account unless you use the Ctrl+Alt+Delete (for XP Pro) or Safe Mode (for Home).

You with me so far?

Now if you did not create a second user this Administrator account cannot go into hiding and becomes your normal user.

But this works fine if you do not get restless and decide to rename it.
Without renaming you can use it to boot into the Recovery Console to fix things.

But as we have dwelt on this issue for the past couple of days...your renamed "Administrator" account may one day get sick/corrupt and decides not to wake up XP!
Now you are in real hot water as you have no other user account to fall back on or you cannot access the Recovery console.

Result: Reinstall XP.

Now lets explore possible solution/s:

If you know which account was the original Administrator account try and boot into the Recovery Console using that account and any password you have for it.

Let me know if it works.
I suspect it won't work.

If I am correct you can then create a new user account and migrate all your files and settings over to the new account.

Then rename the original account back to Administrator.
Now try to access the Recovery Console again.
Also test to see if this Administrator account is now hidden.

Let me know if it works.

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I definitly do, but forgot to mention
Nov 19, 2003 5:13AM PST

I'm running XP Home Edition. Does that even include the Recovery Console? If so, how to access it? Sorry for the dumb questions, thought I had a grip on this OS, but apparently not.

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Oops! Forgot to mention something else
Nov 19, 2003 8:20AM PST

Really sorry for such a sloppy post David. Should have given more info.
Only have a couple of Restore disks. No XP CD. Guess I'm SOL?
BTW, your first link doesn't seem to work.

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Hi, RAY. Glad to see that I am not alone. LOL Hey youngster, you
Nov 19, 2003 6:43AM PST

know that my problem is caused by senility.

I was so peed off last night that MS didn't reveal this crap that I sat up with the computer until 4 am re-reading the posts aand swearing at MS.

All I can say is thank the almighty that David is here to make easy to read responses.

I'm not going to try any of this on my existing XP computer because nothing that I try ever seems to work as it is supposed to with XP. I may never change it, if I have to reinstall everything so be it. I haven't even tried to see if I am using the account that should be hidden. Figure that it might never recover if I tried to do the check.

I will definitely have the Admin and user accounts in the new system when I set it up. I want the system to booy up without passing for a logon. I guess that I will have to install MS's UNSUPPORTED TweakUi. I have avoided using extra stuff such as that for almost ten years. Pretty crappy that an unsupported program is required to make a MS system easy to use. [as you see I'm I'm still boiling.] LOL

The next major issue will be for when I upgrade one of the work compuers from 98 SE to XP and get the Admin crap and files in the correct accounts. The 98 SE machine presently has four Profiles [users?], sio I'm sure that I'll screw that one up.

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Ray..Senior! :-) about auto-logon...
Nov 19, 2003 8:13AM PST

Soory! I didn't mean to overload you with info and kept you up till 4am!

"I want the system to booy up without passing for a logon. I guess that I will have to install MS's UNSUPPORTED TweakUi."

For a single account user with the "Hidden" Administrator inactive you can configure XP to boot straight to the Desktop without resorting to TweakUI.

All you need to do is do not set a password for that account.
Then turn on the Welcome Screen and Fast User Switching and it will boot straight into that User's Desktop.

Now I should stop here so you can sleep earlier tonight.

Wink

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I mentioned before. I have no idea how to turn on the Welcome Screen.
Nov 19, 2003 9:55AM PST

Much less whether that will slow down the boot. Am I going to have to look at the Welcome screen ???????

On a cold boot I get Asus Probe [temp/volt/fan monitor program]on screen at the end of the boot. This is because the second fan on my power supply [3 wire to the mobo] doesn't start up until the supply heats up a little. Thus the fan is at zero RPM for about 10 to 20 seconds resulting in an alarm.

By the time I get to the computer [again, I never watch the boot] the fan is running and I minimize the Probe display.

I used Bootvis succfully last week and it has my boot time down rather low. Now that MS has pulled Bootvis from its download sites, I'll probably find that I'm now in even more trouble.

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How to turn on the Welcome Screen...
Nov 19, 2003 10:55AM PST

* Start | click your picture icon at the top.
* Click Home.
* Click Change the way users log on or off.
* In the next screen you'll see the options to turn on/off:
Use the Welcome screen
Use Fast User Switching
* Make your changes.

That's it!

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Hey older Ray
Nov 19, 2003 9:08AM PST

You are definitlely not alone with your confusion. I've used XP Home Edition for about a year and a half now, and really love it.
Not running anything fancy here, just a single user home computer.
Have had no problems that System Restore couldn't correct. All drivers are up to date except for sound. Way to big for a DUN. Still all works great.
This thing about the Admin file kind of worried me, since I had screwed up early on. But judging from Davids replies, there may be nothing I can do about it now. (No XP CD).
So, in my case, I'm not going to worry much more about it. Worst case I may have to reinstall from my reinstall disks (yuk). But I am pretty well backed up for all important data.

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Heh! Ray Jr.
Nov 19, 2003 9:23AM PST

Ray S. You mentioned you have the Restore Disks for you PC.

You can browse the Disks and see if there is a i386 folder on one of the Disks.
I am pretty sure you will find it on one of the Disks.

If so you can try and install the Recovery Console on your HDD and access it when booting your system.
You can launch it from the Windows XP start-up disks, or you can use the Windows XP CD.

To install the Recovery Console on your system, put your Windows XP installation CD in your CD drive, click on Start | Run, and type d:\ i386\winnt32.exe/cmdcons, where d is your CD-ROM drive letter.
Press OK and you will be asked whether you want to install the Recovery Console.
Click on Yes.
Once this application is installed, it will add Microsoft Windows Recovery Console as an option on the boot menu.

In this case instead of using the XP CD use the Recovery Disk that has the i386 Folder.
I am not sure if it'll but you can try it out. Nothing to lose?

http://www.pureperformance.com/js/showtip.asp?id=135

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(NT)Thanks David. Will check those disks
Nov 20, 2003 1:02AM PST

..

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I don't think that I'll change my existing XP system. The idea of
Nov 19, 2003 10:09AM PST

moving all of the files with another MS Wizard, probably with ambiguous dialog boxes will insure that I'll misread one and screw up everything.

I've never been able to use restore. The one time that I tried, was just after a reinstall where I inadvertantly disabled the mouse [to put in my Logitech trackball driver] Tried and gave up and started the new install all over again cleared drive reset partitions et al. After I did this David posted something that ptobably would have worked to allow me to get to restore, but I was too impatient to wait for David input. Serves me right. LOL

So good luck and I hope that your computer runs problem free for at least 5 more years. After all it's using that fabulous Operating System. I hope that you're going to stick around the forums throuigh thick and thin.

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Yep..thru thick and thin
Nov 20, 2003 1:06AM PST

We may have some funky Forum software, but still have the best people here Happy

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(NT) Rick, apologies for hijacking your post
Nov 19, 2003 6:19AM PST

..

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Re:(NT) Rick, apologies for hijacking your post
Nov 19, 2003 10:22PM PST

no problem Ray, it was a nice "flight" with lots to read while searching for that elusive creature known as the (hidden administator) LOL!!!!!! Now lets see if I have learned anything.. I'm in the same boat as you with no XP cd,just recovery discs. On boot up, my computer goes from the welcome screen, right to my desktop with no logon or place asking which account I want to use. In my user acounts folder, it shows 2 accounts. My wife and I as computer administator and guest account is OFF..So if I understand all this correctly,if I were to safeboot ,I would end up at the same place. My desktop with no logon screen? If this is so,then we have no hidden account and are walking a tight rope with no (safety net).......
I do have today off with only a small "honey do list" and will have some time to spend at my (computer education class) LOL!!!!!!
Thanks to everyone,Rick Be back Later..