Costco 42 inch Plasma TVs

All of the plasmas you guys have listed are what I would call ''3rd tier'' plasmas. Have you ever even set eyes on units like Runco? Runco, Pioneer Elite (NEC), are what I would call ''Tier 1'' plasmas. These Visio units and others at Costso are junk.... and ''best buy for the money'', my god, those are horrible TVs. If you are looking at 50'' plasmas, and you are not spending AT LEAST $4,000, you are wasting your time. If you cannot play in the big game, get a cruddy LCD or DLP.

And what do you own? No matter what you have, there is always something better. Does that make yours junk? Most people want the best they can afford and that is why this forum is here. The "junk" will get called out the posts. I have seen some pretty good reviews on the Vizio 50". Seems to be better than the 42", but I have not seen either called "junk". I have seen Pioneers at Costco--so Pioneer is junk??

Winner,

When are you going to see a review that calls ANYTHING junk? Never. If you think that a Vizio plasma is good, then great, but there is a lot out there that many of you have not even been exposed to. People think that Best Buy is the only place to buy a stereo and TV. It's like Bose - people think it's great. It is the most over-marketed, over-priced, worst sounding equipment you can buy today, yet people eat it up because they see a great review or otherwise. And I have an NEC 50XR5, which is in about the top 3 plasmas that you can buy right now, along with Runco, Marantz and Pioneer Elite (the later 2 are made by NEC anyway). And yes, Pioneer is kinda "tier 2" plasma, their ELITE line is completely different however. There is a reason that a Runco 42" plasma is over $6k.

They're soon parted.

It's called the economic law of diminishing returns.

The difference between a so-called 3rd tier plasma and a a DLP/LCD is much greater than the difference between a 1st tier plasma and a 3rd tier plasma.

Especially when you consider that many of the guys that go out and spend the big bucks just so they can get on a form and thump their chests, don't even have the smarts to get their sets calibrated. (Not saying you're one of them.)

And while you're enjoying your perfect system for the next ten years at five figures, someone else will get the same performance two or three years later for half the price with a name on it, that you consider inferior.

But, that's just my opinion.

There's a sucker born every minute and I'm referring to the minute you were born. - P.T. Barnum

The interesting thing is that even older hi-end gear will still kick the crap out of much of the new stuff out there today. To think that a "new" $150 CD or DVD player is better than a 4-5 year old Meridian, Musical Fidelity, LINN or Rotel is just plain stupid. Most consumers would say that a "new" Sony $250 surround reciever that has 7.1 must be better than my LINN system because it only has 5.1

And "same performance"? In what world do you live???

The longer I live, the more I am amazed at how ignorant people can be...

There's a jealous punk born every minute and I'm referring to the minute you were born.

I'm amazed at arrogance. Someone asked about a television they could afford and you respond it's junk. What a *****.

What's your definition of better? Do you mean it's built better and will last longer? Or, are the specs the same?

I guess it depends on what you want. Personally, the law of diminshing returns kicks in when I have to really try to tell a difference between two components.

What were you watching before your plasma? And how ever did you live with it? Furthermore, what were you listening to before, and how didn't your ears simply fall off the side of your head?

I AM AMAZED YOU'RE STILL WITH US!

Why are you bringing up specs? Is that what makes you purchase one TV over another? Specs? Or maybe what the TV looks like compared to another - doesn't that make more sense? If I see a plamsa that has a noticeably better picture than another and it costs $1,000 more, then I have to decide if it is worth the extra $1,000 TO ME. Obviously, you are OK with mediocre equipment, and that's fine, you fall into the larger group of consumers (and there is nothing wrong with that).

It still amazes me that there are people out there (like yourself), that will buy a piece of gear based on some review on the net or a list of specs on paper.

I was watching a 34" HD tube TV before the NEC plasma and it looked pretty good, but it is only 34". I have been waiting for the right time to jump into a plasma with a somewhat realistic price.

And YES, FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST, VIZIO and MAXENT or whatever these crappy, off brands are, SUCK! I do not care who the hell they are made by, or if they are different versions of whatever brand, the picture blows on them, period. If you are going to buy a plasma, buy a decent unit.

"Hey everyone, I bought a new 50" plasma at Costo for $2400, got a great deal, sweet!!!" (Yeah, too bad it's a piece of garbage and the picture looks like crap).

Wake up loser...

I asked you what made YOU think someone wouldn't get the same performance out of a product 2-3 years later for hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars less.

YOU said they could not. I asked what you based that upon. The build quality. The specs. The performance.

I personally don't take anyones word for it when it comes to A/V equipment. I learned very early, at 15 years old (1984) that sales people and reviews don't mean poop.

I had a summer job and wanted a CD player, reciever and speakers. The guy at the store was pushing Bose and Cerwin Vega. I wasn't impressed with either. I really liked the Infinity SM100s. He kept telling me how much better the CVs were.

My first pair of speakers were Infinity SM100s.

I don't care if they were poop. I loved em.

I have a budget. I read. I listen. I watch. I make a decision. I buy.

The bottom line is too much of this is subjective. And much of ones enjoyment can (rightly or wrongly) be tied to the perceived value of their system.

It's not for you to decide.

Saying that something is junk without any consideration given to the ENTIRE equation is moronic.

I was responding to comeone posting the fact that I was buying "the latest and greatest gear for top dollar". I have purchased much of my equipment as demo or used in an effort to get the nicer stuff, but not have to pay new retail for it.

It's the same if I was shopping for a car; I would rather buy a 3-year old Toyota 4Runner with 50,000 miles on it than a brand new Ford Explorer, becasue I feel like build quality, reliability and re-sale is important and Ford makes horribly unreliable vehicles. Yet idiots buy them for some reason, I guess the cost? I don't know, but what I do know is that Toyota is laughing their asses off and are very close to becoming the #1 automaker in the world, after already passing Chrysler and Ford.

Everyone has a budget, whether it's $2,000 for an entire system or $20,000. I am not saying that you cannot build a decent system for $2,000, but do not even try to compare them side-by-side. You get what you pay for.

Its a difference of opinion. Easy, with the loser talk. Try decalf.

First of all, I don't consider any of the sets from Panasonic, Pioneer, NEC, JVC, Hitachi, Fujitsu, Sony or Toshiba as junk. Perhaps some might consider the Korean, Chinese and Taiwanese brands and rebadges as somewhat to considerably lower in quality and I would agree. I would not personally buy any of these cheaper brands. But the Panasonic models we mention are definitely not Junk.

Do you know who makes Runco plasmas? They are rebadged; the 50" from Pioneer and the 42" from NEC. There might be some modifications added by Runco but the glass and the basic circuitry are the same. Do you know who owns NEC (NEC still makes their own excellent units)?... Pioneer. Like a big 3-way going on here, aye?. As you probably know, most brands are rebadges or combo units with the glass from one company and the insides from another. Panasonic, Pioneer and NEC (as well as Hitachi) happen to be at the top of the quality heap of plamsas. My JVC plasma is actually an NEC.

I know that one or two reviews don't make a case but they seem to indicate that your claim of "junk" might be suspect. Below are recent reviews with scores for some of the Panasonic and your Pioneer, Elite and NEC sets. Looks like they are all in the same ballpark with maybe the Panasonics given the edge. That is what the many reviews I have read seem to confirm. I did not have the time to list them all here. The Runco sets are obviously excellent but overly hyped by the high end audio/video dealers that stock them. They need to push them versus the "common people's" brands to justify their very high prices.

All of these are fairly recent scores except for some that are from about one and a half years ago but still applicable (as marked...***).

Plasma Planet Ratings

Pioneer Elite 1120HD -- 8.7
Pioneer 5060HD -- 9.0
NEC 50XR5 -- 9.2 (linnfreak's TV)
NEC 50XM5 -- 9.0
Panasonic TH-50PX500U -- 9.2
Panasonic TH-50PX50U -- 9.0
Panasonic TH-42PX500U -- 9.2
Panasoinc TH-42PX50U -- 9.0

Robert Wiley's Ratings

Pioneer Elite 1110HD -- 92.4 ***
Pioneer Elite 1130HD -- 93.25
NEC 50MP3 -- 93.8 ***
NEC 42VP4 -- 93 ***
Panasonic TH-50PHD6UY -- 95.25 ***
Panasonic TH-50PHD7UY -- 96 ***
Panasonic TH-42PD50U -- 92
Panasonic TH-42PX500U -- 95.25
Panasonic TH-42PHD8UK -- 96.5

Looks like Panasonic plays in "the big game."

RR6 (Chuck)

NEC makes the glass for many of the best plasmas out there (Panasonic not being one of them).

I am aware of all that information you wrote, but the fact remains that Runco, Pioneer ELITE (NEC) and Marantz (NEC), are about the best plasmas out there.

If you actually go by what some website shows as "TOP 10 plasmas" or "Best Selling Plasmas", (like Plasma Planet), I truly feel sorry for you. I do not need some idiot on the web to tell me that Panasonic is the best plasma becasue that is what the masses are buying.... 90% of the people out there think that Bose is top-quality audio gear too - they have not seen anything beyond Best Buy and Circuit City stores.

Any of the 3 units I mentioned will "kill" anything made by Panasonic or JVC, it's that simple. Pansonic plasmas are "good", but they are not tier 1 plasmas.

So it looks like Panasonic doesn't play in the big game after all.

Just got my new Consumer Reports in the mail and they did a TV report. On plasmas, Panasonic was at the top. No, there were no Runcos listed, nor a Vizio. But many of the mainstream brands were there.

I know that they are not an electronics magazine, but they do publish well respected and unbiased reviews. Of yourse, they too are probably ill informed.

Just out of curiousity, I saw the new CR and I think this issue was very good, but I sometimes wonder about CR, for instance they recommend BEAR Paint as the number one paint and I do not know one person even the ones who buy it that think it is the best paint, never mind some of the other categories. Anyhow, you seem to have been around the block and I wanted your opinion on CR overall.

I have subscribed to CR for at least 30 years. In general, I find their reviews very credible. I do base a lot of my purchases on their reviews. I do not take them as gospel, but they point out a lot of things you mignt not even think about. I always consider the reliability of a certain brand as well as the rating. After all, who wants a great piece of equipment that will break? Those reliability histories are based on reader surveys that we subscribers receive every year. I always fill out and return mine as does everyone I know that subscribes. They do not accept any advertising, so are not afraid to downraste a product. They buy all products at retail just like we do. There are no hand picked items sent to them from the manufacturers for evaluation. They usually buy more than one of each item just in case one is defective. When is the last time you saw an audio/video magazine downrate a product as not acceptable? Print a bad review, lose an advertiser.

Although it is off this forum, I tried Behr paint several years ago based on their report and it is great paint. It does cover very well and does not splatter from the roller. Last year I had the whole interior of my house painted by professional painters and specified Behr. They had never used it before and when they were finished, they said they would recommend it on future jobs because it was as good or better than anything they had used. BTW, Sherwin Williams used to own a company I worked for. We got SW paint at 45% off so that is what I used and I would still rather buy Behr.

So, is Consumer Reports credible--you bet.

Thanks for correcting my spelling of BEHR paint. Though you are the first to tell me they think it is as good as many of the other brands. I like consumer reports as well, but still compare there reviews with others like cnet for instance. Happy trails.

As far as CNET reviews go, I like to rely more heavily on the user reports posted than with the editorial reports on products. A lot of greatly reviewed products just do not work well or have bad controls etc that are pointed out by the users.

Remember, anyone who accepts an ad is biased.

I look at user reiews as well as editorial reviews. However, I think everyone is bias whether they accept ads or not, so that is why I use multiple review sites plus user opinions.

Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk

Panasonic makes there own glass as well as glass for many other brands. NEC is in fact one of the best makers of glass as well as plasmas. The same is true for Panasonic, Pioneer and Hitachi. Your NEC is an excellent plasma which you obviously didn't notice was backed up by my scores.

I quickly looked up several rating scores to give an example. I didn't have time or think it was appropriate to list lots of pro reviews here. I noticed you have not backed up any of your claims with any facts, period. Nor have you listed any of your components except for the NEC plasma. HOW ABOUT FOLLOWING UP HERE ON THIS THREAD WITH A LIST OF YOUR COMPONENTS SO WE CAN SEE WHAT A REAL SYSTEM CONSISTS OF. Oh and by the way, be sure and list the brand and model number of that DVD player you own.

If you go to my profile and read some of my posts you will see that I frequently write concerning Bose and their way overpriced and mediocre speakers. I recommend quality speakers with a good bang for the buck; such as Paridigm, Mirage, Energy, SVS, HSU, Athena, Definitive Technology just to mention a few. I presently have very small speakers but good quality do to room constraints.

I have been into Audio/Video for over 37 years. I have owned equipment from such brands as Marantz, Altec Lansing (the real Altec), AR LST just to name a few. I subscribe to about 10 magazines a month and read them cover to cover. I frequently visit all of the electronics dealers in my area not just CC and BB. I am aware of all of the upscale brands and upscale publications including Absolute Baloney and StereoFile that push speakers and plasmas that might sound slightly better for 10 times as much money, including the ultimate "idiots" to quote you, that spend $500 a meter for cable and wire.

I didn't say anything negative about Runco, Pioneer or NEC as far as their performance was concerned. I did back up my claims with facts and non-consumer's reveiws, while not resorting to name calling. It seems that you cannot accept the fact that Panasonic is actually one of the top tier plasma brands even though they are sold by mass mechandisers. My comment about the masses was humor directed at the uppity people who think they are better than everyone else because they are aware of plasma brands such as "Runco" and Marantz. I am a former owner of the original Marantz line and well aware of the Marantz line of plasmas that are only sold in high-end audio/video boutiques along with $300 video cables and customers who can detect minute differences in the upper midrange of their speakers based on the differences in their speaker wire.

I am sorry that you feel sorry for me and that you have called me an idiot. I do qualitfy for Mensa if that would help to defend myself.

Please give us some concrete facts or reviews that would back up your opinion that Runco, NEC and Pioneer would "kill" (good home theater evaluation term....maybe Runco plasmas "rock" too) anything made by Panasonic or JVC. By the way did you pick up on my comment that JVC 42" plasmas are rebranded NEC's?

Name calling won't get you anywhere here at least with an old knowledgeable fart like me.

RR6 (Mr. Riggs to you)

Now, that is the way to present a credible post. I too have been into audio and video since the mid-late 60s when my first amp was a tube model. I used to think I had to have the best of the top brands to get great sound. Back then you had to have a Fischer or Scott or maybe a Marantz and if you had more money than brains, a McIntosh system. Then, the Japanese and Korean brands flooded in and had excellent specs and much lower prices. Equipment specs were nearing or exceeding the limits of the test equipment used to evaluate them. Point is, electronics have gotten very good and very cheap. So, how do you justify a 6,000 plasma or a 150 dollar cable? The same way you justify a Lexus over a Toyota or an Infinity over a Nissan. They are made by the same companies and in fact, some are the same vehicle with a little different trim. They add a little trim and some bells and whistles which adds a few dollars to the cost of the car and thousands to the retail price. So why do people buy them? Because they have appealed to your ego and you just have to preserve your image. Add a couple LEDs, a fancy bezel, a couple more inputs, a fancy remote and a designer name and you have just created that 6000+ dollar plasma and added 2000+ dollars of profit. Of course they are good, but can you really see the difference? Properly set up, the average person will be hard pressed to tell the differece just as he can not tell a great wine from an average one.

If you are happy with an overpriced TV, fine. For the rest of us, we will be happy with a Panasonic or standard line Pioneer or many other brands that provide us with a great picture. In the current Consumer Reports, the 4000 dollar Panasonic edged out the 6500 dollar Pioneer and the 5000 dollar Mitsubishi. What do you get for that extra 1000 to 2500 dollars? Not a better picture. Price does not always equal quality.

You can't make your equipment better by condeming everything else. You have to show us the proof.

I haven't thought of the brand name Scott for many years. Reminds me of some of the old stuff like Heathkit, JBL coaxial speakers, Altec Lansing Voice of the Theater, Bozak, Dynaco, wow! You've really got the old nostalgia wheels turning in my head now!

Thanks,

RR6

Sounds like we have both been around a while and been burned by the hype. My first "big screen" TV was bought in 1985. It was a massive 37" screen and cost 4000 dollars. How much is that in 2006 dollars? Paid almost 500 dollars for my first VCR, a 2 head model back when Beta was still in competition. After spending about 300 dollars for my 5 disk non-progressive scan Sony DVD player, here comes progressive scan at a pretty high price. Do I jump now? No, I finally learned and bought a great Toshiba progressive scan for under 100 dollars. I have leaned to sit back and let consumer level equipment catch up to the latest technology. Now, here comes HD DVD. Competeing formats and high prices along with nothing to watch on them. Some will jump on it, but I will wait. As long as it is taking the Feds to change to digital only broadcasting, I will be too old to see by the time 1080p ever gets broadcast.

Remember, what you buy today will be twice as good in 2 years and cost half as much.

I still have my Sherwood stereo receiver. Use it for driving the audio from my PC. Talk about will built products. There is actually 'weight' to this thing.

Just kidding. Sherwood has been around for quite some time.

Yeah, I think in a day or two when I get time I'll start a thread where we can reminisce about some of our "older" stuff and hi-fi memories.

RR6

I DON'T CARE ABOUT REVIEWS. I make my decision based on what I see and hear myself. Again, I feel sorry for you if you are spending this much time on the net arguing with people like me and thumbing through 10 magazone subscriptions every month. Why not stop reading and surfing and maybe start listening and watching your system? Just a though.

P.S. Panasonic is not a "tier 1" plasma and that's final, sorry.

I took the Evelyn Woods speed reading class. I got up to 11,500 words per minute. I can read the entire issue of Home Theater Magazine in 2 minutes and 15 seconds!