Correct way to turn computer off

Just to let you know, this was one of the threads that Admin put into today's CNET Member Newsletter which is why you are getting so may replies now. Members are just clicking on the link in the e-mail and replying so this thread will probably keep getting bigger for a couple of days.

Been doing it that way for a lot of trouble *free* boots and shut downs.

Glenn

If you have a PC that is Energy Star compliant and yo uset it to power everything down automatically then all of teh extra work is unnecessary.

I have maintained and used PCs professionally for years. Electronic devices always prefer to be left running. POwer on and off heat cycles the circuits. This causes more damage than leaving them on.

Modern PCs support industry standards of power management and will "idle" down to almost no power useage including the periferral devices. Yhis is the ideal way to run them for longevity.

I have done this for years and never had a good PC fail for hardware related power problems. Many clones have problems because they are not up to spec or use cheap knockoff parts and older technologies. PCs from HP, Dell, IBM, Apple or any other mainstream vendor are built to rigorous engineering specifications developed by the PC industry.

If you want to see what goes into this effort then look into WinHEC and the annual WinHEC conference along with many other industry standards organizations that manage every area of PC engineering.

Every couple of years a new spec is agreed on that determines the minimum manufacturing requirements. Each time the demand for hands off operation has been pushed towards greater reliability with less management.

Computers, by nature, are designed to work 7 X 24 and always have been. The current trend with Broadband is to keep the PC on and listen form you mail or play the radio on it. Manage you house or even have it dagnose you car or lawn overnight. Run SETI and be a part of a massive supercomputing effort. Build a graphics design with Fractals. Get you moneys worth while you own it.

Yes, I agree that the PC's built in the last 5 to 10 years are (in theory) made for 24 X 7 operation-I think it's a questionable practice for these reasons:
1. Power usage has never been shown to be increased by shutting down PC's for extended periods of non-use(overnight) versus shutdown/startup costs...
2. A PC that is always connected to the internet is always vulnerable to firewall breaks(however small the risk) rather than just when the PC is on. Nowhere in the history of PC's has an 'off' PC contracted anything viral or had some intrusive attack happen.
3. Even the most stable OS(XP or OS X) at this point still generates anomalies over time by simply running without a full shutdown and boot up process-this is my experience and those of my peers locally. An occasional shutdown and reboot is a 'clean slate' action that will only help if done by the steps mentioned in previous posts. You don't have to see direct evidence of this electronic 'lint' that the PC picks up over time until slowdowns or minor issues occur..
4. That wonderful Internet connection is possible by connection to some kind of interface(RJ45 or cable modems vs DSL). I can only speak to cable modem issues but they also have a 'lint' effect at the interface that benefits from an occasional shutdown and reboot-same thing for routers and switches-again, I have only the experience of myself and many of my local peers to vouch for that. The broadband providers will even say that this is not necessary but what is the first thing that they suggest when you drop your service and call support? Reboot...
And back to security-why is a home PC on while your out? Are you doing anything that needs collating while you're asleep or gone? A constant on PC is a constantly open door to your network...
Just my $.02

I don't agree. Power saving reduces power consumption of an idle PC by more than 90% and as much as 98% when it hibernates.

I only shut down all of the corporate machines for maintenance. This has been the case for years. No maintenance problems.

I did a small power usage analysis about 4 years ago and determined that the excess power usage was less than 5% of the total for all desktop computers.

MMachines can't be shutdown anyway as users connect from home to do work at all hours.

My PC at home only gets shut down when the power fails which happens about once a month. Never had a problem except when installing new software or hardware.

Nearly every programmer and technician I know has not shut down their machines for many years. Us techies like to fly close to the edge anyway.

If you feel better shutting your PC down then that is absolutely what you should do. Thats why it's called a "Personal" Computer.

In the 20 years I have had a computer in my home I have never felt teh need to shutdown except for one DOS machine because it was so noisy. The old machines were power eaters anyway,

XP has the power use options. I'm guessing you mean use the shut down HD and Monitor after some time options?
BTW thanks for the info. I'd add to your heat up in power cycles that to almost everything electronics or even just electrical the power surge uses more power than running it a while. Sometimes for hours. That power surge also causes things to blow. That and the heat changes you mention cause light bulbs to blow more often if offed and on IE they last longer left on. There used to be a web site that showed how long between ons made it actually better to turn something off. This was based on Wattage to make it easy for a wide range of products.

Later

I would say that since ACPI and EnergyStar power surge should not be an issue. Modern solid state electronics are current pumps that stay in the off state 99.999% of the time. The big power user is the CPU and memory because they are always kept busy until the system idles for some time then they shut down in stages.

I believe the Intel site has info on this technique for conserving power but, more imortant, reducing heat.

Utility power surges are less of a problem as most PCs have built in surge suppression as do most better electronic devices.

Still, if you are in a industrilal are it is a good idea to have a second surge suppressor. I prefer a UPS as it protects in more ways for only a few dollars more.

My initial post was more about the convenience of not needing to turn off the PC. I like to walk accross the room and check my email in a few seconds and then go back to doing other things.

Read the 500+ ideas about it at the link below..They say it all.

CNET Computer Off or On Link
http://reviews.cnet.com/5208-7586-0.html?forumID=68&threadID=19769&messageID=211343

Hope this helps.

Grif

My original post was only meant to show that a modern PC properly built and install should not require the user to think about how to turn it off. Any way you can should work without a problem.

Windows XP has made pulling out the plug a non-disastrous method of shutdown althugh you may lose work in progress.
The NT file system (NTFS) is a "trasated" data store that can recover from nearly all problems caused by an abrupt power loss. This had to be done for coroprate and server useage. XP inherits this advanced technology.

I don't recommend that everyone go [pull their power plug just be more secure in knowing that the NTFS is keeping your data safer than Windows 9x ever did.

I respect your opinion entirely...Other experienced folks have opinions that differ, but thank you for posting.

Hope this helps.

Grif

What is SETI, I've heard this word mentioned before but I am clueless as to its meaning. Please explain

Thanks in advance

there are as many for the opposite opinion. Just like with so many other debates, I doubt anyone is going to change what they think or do because of what is posted as "the right way to do it".

While it's true that each person needs to make their own decisions about how to manaage their PC it is still critical that one has correct and complete technical information.

Understanding how and why a PC works can save much trouble and frustration and make the xperience much less in the way of "busy work".

My friend changes the oil in his car once every two weeks because a mechanic told him that because he was driving so much he may need tochange oil more frequently. He didn't understand completely and assumed that the more often he changed oil the longer the engine would last.

While this is true it is only true to some reasonable point. You need to believe the manufacturers documentation which states "every 3000 miles or 6 Months" with a disclaimer to change at 2000 miles in extremel hot climates - like the Sahara desert.

We have logged the isue from every possible angle. I still suggest that each use read the documentation that comes with their PC and read the documentation that comes with their OS. From their you can make an informed decision about how to manage you PC in a way that meets you needs and is comfortable for you .

Consider all of the variables in operating a computer: Processor type, memory type and quantity, file system type, OS, a myriad of software titles with varying compliance with the OS, power supply, network, firewall, router, VPN software, startup scripts,(most likely the cause of the problem here), AGP vs. PCI grahics... and I could go on.

Until you can present a root cause for the failure, the only thing you can prove, is that the computer in the school that you go to, does "this" when I do "that". The statement cannot apply to any other computer because you have yet to define the failure mode.

As for the right way to turn off a computer? All computers are safe to power down. The more robust the procedure is, or another way of saying it... the less you depend on the safty mechanisms built into the OS and file system, the less likely you are to experience a problem.
* Shut all programs.
* close all open windows
* power down through the OS, (start menu for Windows).

If you insist on hitting the power button, or pulling the plug, because the computer "should" work that way, knock yourself out.

I just found out through this forum that when I press the power button on my Insignia D400a, it is linked to the Windows XP system somehow, but the screen displays "logging off windows" then "saving settings" then "shutting down windows", Just as if I had hit the task bar start button and chose log off or turn off computer. I read it here, crossed my fingers and tried it on my machine, and I was amazed that it would do that!

The shutdown command or menu selection does all of those thing for you automatically and in the correct order.

Clear cache? Memory cache gets cleared when the power goes off. ARP cache gets cleared every time the system is started. Disk cache is cleared on shutdown and reapplied after a power failure.

Why do you buy a car and tow it to the store using a horse? Take a chnace and drive the car. Let the horse have a vacation.

You are safe with most Windows programs... and yes, cache.

You can depend on Windows to close database file systems, (forget Access, there's MySQL and others), or non-compliant software.

The problem is, you only need one guy not to play nice, to screw up a file system. This is not an issue of what is possible to get away with. It should be looked at as, what is the optimum method. (especially if you are a newbie, who is not sure why your financial program cannot load your data file - and haven't a clue how to recover or restore)

Close all programs, then use the shutdown command on the start menu. Not because you have to. Because it presents the lowest risk.

Sorry this is a month-old post. Enjoyed reading the posts, I was on vacation in Turkey last month and never went back to the newbees forum 'til tonight. Your post and others are right-on. Just want to add that it is the best way for Macintosh also. ALWAYS! Just look at the start-up warnings that pop up from time to time.

Thanks, Kevin

I have my laptop set so when I close the lid it goes to hibernate. I have timed booting from cold dead, and from standby, and from hibernate. I get back up and running faster from hibernate than from the others. I figure they are all safe, or they wouldn't be options. (No, I didn't even *try* timing restart after yanking the plug out of the wall.)
On my main computer, I just leave it running, and XP does things while I'm not there. I like to be able to use my computer at any instant, not wait for a boot when I just wanted to see a quick weather satellite, or ask the box a trivia question or check my email.

i agree about laptops ...just close the lid and hibernate , with desktop comps why close at all , i only reboot when necessary, but if you must shut down completley its not brain surgery..close anything thats open / save the things you need, and open task manager and go to "shut down" wow , hard aint it?

I have nothing to add except it's nice to see someone give a simple, accurate answer.