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Cooley doesn't care for outer space, okay; Shalin's response

by shawnlin / November 11, 2008 12:07 PM PST

Cooley doesn't care for outer space, okay; Shalin's response

Regarding Brian Cooley not caring about space. I don't know if he's really going to care to even read/listen to my response, but that's kinda the point - not everyone gets space. And...it's okay!

Although, it'd be too bad if an asteroid with Earth's name on it would obliterate the Earth...and just hours before that event the last time I would see Cooley is with his feet on Terra Firma and me and my hand waving goodbye from the Interplanetary Escape Vehicle I've boarded...sigh... I mean, even the experts didn't completely see the financial mess we're in...know what I'm sayin' Cooley? As much as I like to be around some classic De-troit muscle cars among other creations not easily found in the Cosmos, I'd like to save my life, ideas, and a piece of humanity a bit more. Happy

I do think that Cooley could stand to benefit from reading my post and thread on the 404 forums I put up a few months ago. It goes through pros/cons, references, articles, etc.: http://forums.cnet.com/5208-12551_102-0.html?forumID=139&threadID=287399&messageID=2727110&tag=forums06;forum-threads

And these 50 innovations courtesy of NASA that affect our lives. Pick any 10 to "cancel" from it's development in history and our world would be much different. We'd at least be behind some :
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-10152_102-0.html?forumID=97&threadID=311673&messageID=2878159
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/50-years-50-giant-leaps-how-nasa-rocked-our-world-879377.html

On the other hand - point *for* Cooley:
? Regarding us humans screwing up this planet and the "so why go out and screw up another one" - well, that thought is shared by, of all people, Queen glam rocker Dr. Brian May (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90273890).
? Also, Louise Leakey (granddaughter of Dr. Louis Leakey) has said that the current species of humans aren't soo keen on the further evolution of the species, hence the extraordinary population growth over the last several thousands of years (http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/louise_leakey_digs_for_humanity_s_origins.html) and stunting the evolutionary track.
? Furthermore, in "The Matrix", Agent Smith had the line "...There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure."
Take those ideas together and one could conclude the human species may have to go through another version or two of refinement before we venture out in the universe. Well, it's something to at least consider...

Very best wishes and Ad Astra,
Shalin

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advocating for satan...
by robstak / November 12, 2008 2:22 AM PST

First, that was awesome and thorough, and that's why we all love you.

Second, to further discussion, I offer the following:
-Just because brian doesnt care about space doesn't mean he doesn't get space
-A lot of the reasoning, to me, is weak: "to get kids interested in math and science", meh! - creation of new technology (is not solely dependent on space exploration (just a nice side effect)) - competing with the Russians. I'm more turned on by the hard science... uh... that sounded awful... anyway...


I *do* think it's idiotic to dismiss *all* space-related activities, but perhaps expectations could be more humble. Sure, one day the earth will die and we need to go somewhere else or just become extinct, but I can't justify funding something that will save lives thousands of years from now, instead of funding something that will save lives today (health care, education, etc). I parused the freakonomics blog post (pretty interesting) but I can't bring myself to be comfortable for the kinds of justifications and appropriations alluded to there and other places...

because...

Ultimately, IMHO, space exploration today is a frivalty; it sure is cool and helpful, but to get caught up in it is to lose sight on what's happening here right on Earth, which is still here at least for the time being! lol.

Again, really cool stuff, and thanks, just playin devil's advocate... Wink

-dr. karl

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yep, understood; robot vs human exploration...
by shawnlin / November 12, 2008 2:44 AM PST

yep, understood; robot vs human exploration...

Just to add something about robotic vs human exploration. Robotic exploration has a human component to it - we are ultimately controlling the darn things! Happy And whenever we find something really worth investigating through robots in outer space, the "humans in outer space" efforts can kick of with, and this is really important, a well defined and clear objective.

Personally, I think it'd be okay to stop the space shuttle flights, spend more 2-5x as much in robotic exploration of the planets (including Earth), and continue work on the next human-rated exploration vehicles. I think that would bear more bang for our taxpaying dollars (and it's probably *only* going to be government spending until something astounding is discovered out there...).

I believe that exploration of space is going to be more and more important for coming the current and soon to exist generations of humanity. And...to ignore it is to ignore an open doorway to the next stage of humanity's existence...

Best,
Shalin

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Also, just for kicks - Space and love...
by shawnlin / November 12, 2008 3:28 AM PST
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But
by Nicholas Buenk / November 12, 2008 6:12 AM PST

Robot exploration does nothing to hence technology for human survivability in space, I hope we do things like colonise mars this century, good insurance policy if anything happens to earth. Not gonna happen if we don't put money into human exploration today. Money spend on furthering human knowledge will last centuries and is a civilizations and cultures legacy that people will still talk about in a thousand years. In which time that will be all that is left of us.

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good point, but consider a pragmatic approach too...
by shawnlin / November 12, 2008 11:54 AM PST
In reply to: But

good point, but consider a pragmatic approach too...

You have a good point and I would agree with you, but I see a more pragmatic approach. Follow me on this and see what you think...

I don't think Astronauts really inspire people with any significant effect anymore. They're widely considered some of the most impressive people that walk/orbit the Earth, but they don't really inspire because they're not doing much that mainstream America considers *significantly* new as well as that the mainstream can't really relate very well.

Because of that, I think the way for folks to get into space is through means that are interesting to them. Having unique experience and remote control of (blank) and being able to share the experience is interesting to most - hence robotic exploration of planets and the cosmos. With more folks interested in space, they're own curiosity, aspirations, and even competitiveness will naturally grow into getting out there and exploring and/or readying humanity to leave this planet. But you first need to massive amount of people interested and their brain power for that - and I think you'll only get the masses if you attract the masses.

Best,
Shalin

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Also, space provides an avenue for connections...even love..
by shawnlin / November 12, 2008 3:58 AM PST
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Cooley doesn't care for outer space, okay; Shalin's response
by wizkids32 / November 12, 2008 6:27 AM PST

I knew that is what you would say have to love Shalin to tell off Brian on how he hates outer space thanks for that.

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yeah, I think most of us were all feelin' it anyhow...
by shawnlin / November 12, 2008 11:26 PM PST

and regarding my sticking my tongue out at Cooley's remarks...man, I haven't acted like an 8 year old like that in years...so fun! Wink

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Cooley's a heck of a guy, but....explanation please?
by shawnlin / November 12, 2008 11:53 AM PST

Cooley's a heck of a guy, but....explanation please?

You know, I thought and still think that Cooley is a heck of a guy, actually. I have to say though...it was really surprising that he didn't say something like "well, can't we do (blank) out there?", "I'd expect we get (blank) from orbiting the earth or exploring other planets", etc. But...I heard none of that. Not even a demand of NASA as a taxpaying American (btw, NASA's annual budget is less than 1% of the national annual budget and has been for many years. Seriously.) It was just...surprising...no thought out argument to back up his inferred demand that we just shutter NASA or similar...

It seems like he's got the mindset of "if there's nothing to win, why do it?" But in my mind, there is something to win - the freakin' future of humanity!

Somehow, I think a lot of the folks who don't "get" or don't "care for" space exploration will be surprised beyond their mental and emotional capacity when, not if, they find out they needed it more than anything and are unprepared to move forward in that effort... But as human nature goes - to each their own. If we had an Earth full of the same people - problems...lots of problems...

Best,
Shalin

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PPP
by Renegade Knight / November 13, 2008 3:51 AM PST

Even in a Perfectly Preserved Planet where we do our utmost to keep the planet and race alive this rock's gonna die. We get off, or we die off. Simple. Maybe we have a billion years. Mabye more mabye less (I'm too lazy to look up the range actually calculated). But if this race is to have any hope it's either the 2nd coming, or getting off this rock whichever comes first. Only one of those has a time frame we can forsee.

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(NT) BTW - LOOOOVE the chat room during live feed :)
by shawnlin / November 12, 2008 12:15 PM PST
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