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CNN is reporting that bush apologized.

by Dan McC / May 6, 2004 4:33 AM PDT

I wonder why he did it today and not yesterday in his interviews.

I'll be interested to see the video and how he worded it, exactly.

Dan

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NT - That must really smart! I hope they gave him novocain. I mean: "DOH!"
by crowsfoot / May 6, 2004 5:32 AM PDT

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That will depend on what he said.

Let's wait until the video is out.

Dan

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I wish they would..............

....dress every one of those "detainees/prisoners' in their Sunday Best, with every detail attended regarding their appearance, and seat them on one side of a long table, and then bring in the actual 'perpetrators' of this activity, one at a time, and make them apologize.

Of course ! Live TV.

It will never happen, and for many reasons.

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Did it in his stand up news conference with the King of Jordan...
by John Robie / May 6, 2004 6:05 AM PDT

that I watched just after noon today.

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Re:Did it in his stand up news conference with the King of Jordan...

Hi, John.

I know you're aBush fan, but really -- why couldn't he have said this yesterday on Arab radio, when it might actually have done some good? After not apologizing yesterday and receiveing much criticism for it, the apology today is even more "too little too late," and seems pressured and insincere. NOTE: I'm NOT saying it's insincere -- I truly believe it is. But if I were an Iraqi, that's not how I'd see it; as a Muslim, I MIGHT have seen it differently had it been said yesterday.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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How do you know how a Muslim might see it?

For all we know the Muslims will look at his apology as a sign of weakness.

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Why not yesterday, Dave...

Why not yesterday? Did Bush tell those media organizations that the scheduled interviews were going to be an apology? Suddenly some of the Middle East press said that it would be an apology.
If a President of the United States schedules interviews with press organizations to discuss a situation and/or give his views on it, should he alter his planned words to conform to what some media organizations state(predict) that he will say, or stick with his plan and not let the media control his words?
If I were to use the same style of implication that you tried to use against John with "I know you're aBush fan, but really", I could say your anti-Bush desire to criticize him and/or Republicans may be coloring your statements.
It does make me wonder, though. If you have the degree of political "savvy" that you claim I would think that you noticed that Bush didn't schedule an "apology", using that word, but an interview. That leaves me with two possibilities. Either the "apology" prediction/statement sailed right past your savvy un-noticed or you noticed it and used it as means of attack on Bush, as did some Middle East media organizations.

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Re:Re:Did it in his stand up news conference with the King of Jordan...

I went off the Net before your post and just now returning or would have replied sooner.

Yes I have been a fan of Pres Bush and his father, although having voted both Republican and Democratic in the past, and not necessarily agreeing with the platform of the Republican party. I also voted once for Pres. Clinton.

The speech Pres Bush made day before yesterday was excellent in my opinion and showed his dismay of the treatment of prisoners. It was the PRESS and headline grabbing reporters, probably Democratic leaner's, that made an issue about 'apology'. If it was Pres Clinton, perhaps the Republicans would get on his case about it, especially during close coming election time.

Because of all the hell-er-ba-lu by the political thumb mashers, only naturally he would bring up the 'apology' in the stand-up Garden interview with the King of Jordan.

I watched that interview yesterday as I had the TV on that is right next to my computer and there was a special NEWS interruption of normal broadcasting. He was sincere, honest, and humble in that speech about the treatment of those prisoners. I really don't think Pres Clinton could have done any better during this whole mess.

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Here's a link...........
by Del McMullen / May 6, 2004 6:24 AM PDT
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Well...that's kinda weaselly!
by Dan McC / May 6, 2004 7:12 AM PDT

He didn't really apologize on tape, he just said he apologized.

He didn't apologize to the people we tortured but to the king of Jordan, for some reason.

Why the king of Jordan?

Why do it in private and then just say he said it when he's in front of the cameras.

Why say it in such careful language? "Sorry for the humiliation"? Why not, "Sorry my soldiers tortured those defenseless prisoners"?

No one who thought they needed apologizing to is going to be at all happy with this, and there's no reason they should be.

This isn't going to answer the outrage.

Dan

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Re:Well...that's kinda weaselly!
by Roger NC / May 6, 2004 7:27 AM PDT

While I understand your objections, the careful language is just a part of todays world, unfortunately.

Even private individuals are beginning to realize that honest apology can get them in a world of trouble, like after an accident. There the problem is our sue-happy society, and hungry lawyers.

For a President, there's the obvious political dangers (pity it's so, but let's be real), both at home and between nations. And even legal issues there also to be careful not to admit 'guilt', both for him and for the US government.

Sad? not perfect?

Certainly, but it's realistic to realize it. Anyone from a pauper to a king nowadays has to be careful what they say, especially officially on the record.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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Re:Re:Well...that's kinda weaselly!
by John Robie / May 6, 2004 8:21 AM PDT

And somewhere I read about $$$ comp should be in order. Like you indicate in accidents...admit...totally.... brings higher $$$.

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Re: Well...that's kinda weaselly!
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / May 6, 2004 1:37 PM PDT

Hi, John.

Even a billion in total compensation would still be cheap at half the price if it actually undid even 10% of the damage this incident has done to us in the Muslim world.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Compare this to how their own leaders have treated them. Is it worse? nt
by James Denison / May 6, 2004 2:02 PM PDT

m

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Aren't we suppose to be better than their leaders? :-(

Isn't that the whole point of being there?

I realize a lot of bad things happen during a war but this torture was totally uncalled for. I fail to see any good reason for it at all. From the pictures I have seen it looked like the servicemen and woman were really enjoying themselves.

Richard

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' the damage this incident has done to us in the Muslim world'
by Edward ODaniel / May 7, 2004 2:56 AM PDT

I would say that MOST of the damage is a direct result of the media LEANING on it and implying a condemnation of US Forces and leadership rather than a condemnation of the SPECIFIC MINORITY of troops and leaders actually involved.

That media is your kind of people Dave. Come in riding a high horse without a single thought of who is going to clean up after it and the damage it will do.

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Re: ' the damage this incident has done to us in the Muslim world'

Hi, Ed.

I fear there are several more horseshoes to drop with a thud on this one -- I very much doubt the abuse was confined to one group of soldiers in one Iraqi prison. The implications are already in the material that's come out, if you simply read between the lines. For example, that the abuse began shortly after visitors from the Guantanamo facility suggested the MPs could help "soften up" the prisoners for interrogation. One wonders what an investigation at Guantanamo would reveal. There've already been charges of abuse there, which the Pentagon has pooh-poohed...

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Re:Re:Well...that's kinda weaselly!
by Dan McC / May 6, 2004 11:47 PM PDT

What happened to bush being a stand up, plain spoken, look you in the eye, take charge, take responsibility, non-slick, non-slippery, moral kinda guy?

Where does that damn buck stop?

Dan

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Re:Well...that's kinda weaselly!
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / May 6, 2004 1:35 PM PDT

Hi, Dan.

He did "say he had apologized" to those who were abused, and to their families, though the contruction was awkward. But what might have done some good had it been said yesterday now seems an insincere response to pressure, and is unlikely to help in the Muslim world. Sad Dubya REALLY needs to take a Dale Carnegie course!

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Ahh, it used to be so much easier before cameras and televisions.
by James Denison / May 6, 2004 2:14 PM PDT

Send the Army out to quash the opposition, get rid of the worst ones, terrify the rest, then let the missionaries go in and straighten out the whole mess showing them what nice guys we all really were, any leaders that remained meet at a table and everyone make handshakes and smiley faces, then sign the treaty.

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Re: used to be so much easier -- worked with the Indians, all right... (NT)

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Well...it worked 'on' the Indians, anyway. -nt

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(NT) Message has been deleted.
by Edward ODaniel / May 7, 2004 2:51 AM PDT

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