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General discussion

Cloud storage services today, is it reliable & secure?

Aug 15, 2014 10:21AM PDT
Question:

Cloud storage services today, is it reliable and secure enough to use?


I believe you've covered this topic before, but it's probably been a while and I'm hoping that some of your members could weigh in on cloud storage services today. Are cloud storage services reliable and secure enough to use today? I know a lot of people have fears of using this cloud storage services because of privacy concerns, but it seems like everything is headed to the cloud. As far as I know, email storage has been in the cloud for decades. I personally have not jumped the gun on this decision yet, as I also have my reservations on privacy. But I believe at some point it eventually has to be trusted to certain extent to be widely used and adapted like email is used today. Am I wrong for thinking that way? I know everything has its risks of being stored in some unknown server, but at what point should we trust it? Are any of you using cloud storage services, if you are, do you feel it's safe enough to store your data on it? And can you recommend one for me. I'm ready to move past the fear and would like to start using it, but I guess what I'm looking for is some reassurance that cloud storage today is OK to use safely. Thanks for your help.

--Submitted by Bryan N.

Discussion is locked

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You couldn't pay me to use it.
Aug 15, 2014 10:45AM PDT

It's slower than a snail's pace to upload to. I just bought a 2 TB hard drive for $75, so I can't think of any sane reason to use the cloud.

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There are many reasons
Aug 15, 2014 1:49PM PDT

There are many reasons why someone might want to store data in the cloud, especially if they need access to it from multiple machines and while traveling. It is also very convenient for sharing data with others and collaborating on projects. And if you are concerned about privacy, simply encrypt the data yourself before storing it.

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Privacy
Aug 15, 2014 3:18PM PDT

But the OP is asking about privacy and most of those services read and/or distribute your stuff. So, if you are concerned about privacy, then you need to consider the convenience vs. privacy issue carefully.

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Flash drives are pretty convenient for traveling purposes
Aug 16, 2014 3:16AM PDT

These days you can get a 128 GB USB 3 flash drive for $45 if you need that much (8 GB ones are now just $5), and put it in your pocket for traveling and multiple location access. For collaborative projects, segmentation is a good approach, but possibly the cloud is OK for very small projects where security isn't much of a concern. As others have pointed out, encryption is no guarantee of privacy against large powerful organizations whose interests are contrary to yours.
When it comes to backup, do you really want to take days to upload a couple hundred GB to the cloud when you can do it in 30 min. to an external USB 3 hard drive? I also make a copy of my most critical data onto a flash drive which I put in the glove compartment of my car which I keep locked and outside my house.

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Good Ideas
Aug 22, 2014 12:21PM PDT

Good thinking. For the cost of a year's cloud service, which as you point out is a lot slower than a flash drive, you could have even a bigger one, if needed, xfer your daily or weekly backups to one and keep it somewhere safe and fireproof... or wherever you think is safe... like your glove box. Happy

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backups for location dependant availability
Aug 23, 2014 10:54AM PDT

The one pro of cloud backup was if your house burned down, got robbed, got flooded, or some other natural disaster, then the data may not be available anymore. Of course, being robbed also meant they robber now has the data, and privacy and security is now compromised instead of availability.

Still, I'd reckon this shouldn't happen to the vast majority of us, and I do agree how slow and expensive it can be to backup large amounts of data this way. AFAIK and depending on where you live, you need $100+/mo internet service to have the upload speeds for this to be fast enough. Otherwise, just leave it running overnight.

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CrashPlan keeps prior versions and deleted files
Aug 25, 2014 5:34PM PDT

The backup s/w I have seen backs up your computer to a removable media. The BU s/w doesn't store multiple versions of files, nor does it keep deleted files (such as those deleted by MS Windows) forever. Also, the backups are off-site, so don't have to alternate between active backup drive and one stored in safety deposit box.

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Cloud Backup is Fast
Aug 24, 2014 5:10PM PDT

Cloud Storage and Apps is the future, and the future is coming at us at warp speed. All we're going to need is a fast, bare bones laptop with WiFi capability to access the internet. I've had Acronis Cloud for almost a year now. I bought 250GB of cloud storage for $50.00 per year and I have 2 laptops backing up to the cloud each night. If your computer is stolen, your home burns down, or your HDD crashes, you can restore your files from the cloud. If you work in one place and live in another place, you can still access your office computer files from home and vice versa.

This has worked well for me, and I can recommend to you Acronis Cloud. For many years, I've been using Acronis Products to backup my devices to HDD; that's one of the reasons I chose Acronis Cloud. The initial "full" backup takes several hours, but you can set it to only do incremental backups after the first full one. Incremental means it only makes changes to the previous backup according to any changes you have made to your files on your computer--this takes less than 15 min to accomplish, and it will work in the background, slow down, and not take up very much bandwidth or CPU capacity if you're using your computer at the same time. By scheduling automatic backups for between midnight and 3:00 AM it's really no trouble at all.

As far as the privacy issue, the Terms & Conditions are pretty tight, except for one thing. It says that if any law enforcement or other public authorities ask Acronis to see your files, even without a warrant, they would turn over your files to them--it didn't even say the government had to have a reason for accessing your records. I asked Acronis to include these words, "under due legal process" (in the T&Cs) and argued with them for a long time to include that phrase, but they wouldn't budge. Whether or not other companies say they'll open your records to any inquiring government worker, in reality, all of the big companies turn over any records requested, many without a proper warrant and without notifying the owner of the records.

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pay forever
Aug 25, 2014 2:26AM PDT

Cloud apps and storage is a way for the vendor to make sure you pay for software and storage forever. Not to mention that now you have given access to your data to someone who does not have your best interests in mind and will only protect your data to the extent that their service agreement says they will.

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You're overpaying
Aug 26, 2014 2:53AM PDT
I don't like Acronis due to software issues. I do use total cloud storage and I like it. Your main mistake is that you are paying Acronis about 4 times the going rate of more reputable companies cloud storage space. You can get complete Office 2013 program and one terabyte of storage for only $99/year, a lot cheaper storage and a lot more given with that storage. At the moment, there is no other safer or cheaper cloud space than this.
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I see it's 69.99 at link.
Aug 26, 2014 3:19AM PDT
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Why Not?
Aug 23, 2014 2:03PM PDT

Why not carry what you need on a jump drive?

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Backups need to be automatic
Aug 23, 2014 5:42PM PDT

The big problem with thumb drives and other USB external drives is that they make backups a chore that the user must remember to take care of. For the vast majority of people, those backups get farther and farther apart. Until it's been six months since the last backup, and a disk crash becomes a catastrophe. On top of that, there's the added chore of cycling through multiple media, remembering to add new folders, etc.

As for using a USB drive as sneaker net, keeping everything synced up can add to the chore. Having a "shared folder" such as Dropbox can be far more convenient.

Drake Christensen

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Encrypt Your Encrypted Data?
Aug 24, 2014 4:08PM PDT

1. I don't know that you gain anything by encrypting data before uploading to the cloud where they will encrypt your encryption.

2. I don't know that double encryption wouldn't scramble/corrupt your data. Ask your cloud storage service about this before you do it.

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The encryption key would also be on the cloud.
Sep 17, 2014 6:54AM PDT

Admittedly, any encryption can be cracked if enough power and time are available (for instance with the NSA). But if you depend on the cloud to encrypt your files, any hacker that can penetrate the cloud storage would also find your encryption key because it's stored there too. Better that the cloud service not encrypt your files and you encrypt them yourself before sending them out.

You might want to check out Spider Oak (spideroak.com) where you choose the encryption key yourself and the files are encrypted before uploading them.

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External Hard Drive for storage
Aug 23, 2014 4:28AM PDT

I agree it seems sensible to me to use external hard drives for storage rather than cloud. At least it is private to you. But the question then begs shouldn't we be backing up the external drive to another? My reason for looking at cloud v. external hard drive is so that I can free up my Desktop hardrive which is nearly full. What do other members think?

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Think "Am I in a state of backup?"
Aug 23, 2014 4:35AM PDT

That is, if you lose a drive, do you still have a copy plus it's backup copy? That means to reach the point where you are never out of the backup state or condition you get to 3 copies on 3 devices and ideally with some copy in another location. Think Katrina disaster.
Bob

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Cloud Backup doesn't necessarily equal Storage
Aug 25, 2014 4:26AM PDT

Just be aware that some cloud backup services cannot be used for archiving (storage). For example, if you delete a folder from your hard drive, that folder will be deleted from your cloud backup after 30 days. Just make sure that whatever cloud backup service you're interested in purchasing allows for storage capability as well.

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Cloud Services
Aug 15, 2014 12:05PM PDT

I read a lot of reviews of cloud services before I chose one. I wanted something that was secure and didn't cost a fortune. The one that was tops on the list was Crashplan +. It encrypts all your data, backs it all up continually, seamlessly, in the background and is only about 60 bucks a year.
I've had Crashplan for two years and it's great. I once had to restore a lot of data after changing systems and it restored it all easliy. I highly recommend it.

Don Fraser

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Depends on what you want to use it for
Aug 15, 2014 3:55PM PDT

Maybe I'm just getting old and stuck in my ways, (I'm 52) but for day-to-day work, I want a native app accessing data locally. I want browser access to the data be be an alternative (ex. Evernote, SplashID) not the primary method. Especially for large data sets, like video editing, the upload speed is simply insufficient. And even for small stuff, like word processing documents, photos, etc, I feel better having a copy on my own machine.

But, for cloud backup, I agree with the previous post about Crashplan. I have the paid version, with three of my computers on it, plus my mom's. I have a couple of machines that have some large files, and Crashplan is easily the most affordable. I've been using it nearly a year, and I've had an opportunity to pull a few files down, a couple of times, to replace some that had been inadvertently edited in a way that lost a lot of data. It was straightforward, and saved the day.

I also, have a NAS running a similar Time Machine-like backup program (Autover on a couple of machines, Yardis on another) for a local realtime backup. I have a DLink that I've been using for a few years. But, that old device was limited on the size of the drive I could put in it, so I recently got a Synology. The software on the Synology feels a lot more solid.

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CrashPlan
Aug 22, 2014 11:45AM PDT

I too have been using Crashplan for my backup for over 2 years and have been very pleased with their service. One of the important features is that you have access to off-site storage should you unfortunately experience a disaster like a fire, flood etc. and your PC(s) are totally destroyed.

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Yes, CrashPlan does backup your "files", but....
Aug 22, 2014 8:35PM PDT

I went to their site... and from what I can see, it does just that. Backs Up "your files." While that is real helpful... and unless I'm missing something, what about all your programs (I'm sorry, but I'm a program junkie and I have a bunch.. and some are even old and who knows where all the install disks are... not to mention the registration numbers for the install routine) and this presents a big problem for me, to wit: Currently I'm stuck in the past, to some extent, with Norton Ghost V15 and I also have EaseUS ToDo Workstation, and they do a disk image so if my computer goes to that great bit-bucket in the sky, or wherever, it's reassuring to me that I can boot to my Ghost rescue disk and point it to my backup and restore "everything" and then boot up my computer and go along my merry way.

Again, I'm not a computer genius, so I tend to read stuff and generally believe it, and EaseUS even states that their program will restore to "dissimilar hardware." So, it appears to my limited mental capacity that even if my mother board or whatever blew up, along with my data, then hopefully I could restore "everything" even if it were to another computer. OTOH, most likely it would be a hard disk crash and the hardware wouldn't be too dissimilar.

So, as Mr. Flash Drive (above) said, I could hopefully point my restore program to my flash drive and re-image (correct word?) my new, crispy hard drive to its state prior to its demise.

That's my story and I think I'm sticking to it. Wink


I

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You don't need to use just one solution
Aug 23, 2014 12:58AM PDT

There are competing requirements here. If you want a full hard-drive image backup, you can do that with a local external hard-drive. If you want mobility and offsite storage, you can use a cloud service. Do you need an off-site full disk backup? Probably not. If your machine was stolen, destroyed, etc., you are probably going to buy a new one, and you probably would not want to overwrite all the new software, drivers, etc., unless the old machine was very new. It's a pain, but you CAN restore all your programs, etc., and you should store all your registration codes somewhere. After all, you will eventually purchase a new machine anyway and you will need that stuff. Meanwhile, in the cloud you store things that are not replaceable (like photos) or your own work products (like documents) that would be a lot of your own labor to re-create.

By the way, Carbonite does offer full HD image backup. It costs more because obviously they have to store a lot more data and they need a lot more bandwidth at their end to do the backups.

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I faced this and did it myself. Easy and not expensive
Aug 15, 2014 2:08PM PDT

Slightly off topic but here you go... I have been running and using my own cloud for quite a while. It is implemented on a Synology NAS unit. Less security issues. Almost none! It comes with the box for free. It has been very reliable and gives me as much space as I like for the same price (price of hardware). Yes, you have to buy the box but they start at $200 plus whatever disks you want to put inside. They take up to 5TB disks and do RAID. If you get a 2-drive unit with dual 5s, you will have 5TB of redundant storage. It is accessible from the subnet or from the internet. I do both here. Home cloud and work cloud. I fetch from both on the same machine. Compare the price of purchase with the price of hosted cloud. Might be a pretty good deal doing your own.

No, I don't work for Synology. I do have 8 of their units at home (3 hot spares, 1 cold spare) and 3 more at work. I also do my own email (servers provided free but must have Static IP) and web site (ILikeTheInternet.com) on the free Apache server. The web site is no showpiece but that's because I just don't work on it. It is not commercial and not beautiful. It is just a hobby site. But it does work just fine. You can even put up a Wordsmith site for free, too. That was overkill for me so I backed off of it.

Lots to like. Support is OK. Nothing exceptional but better than many, but they do have a good product with few problems so its not such a big deal.

Mike

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Agree but...
Aug 15, 2014 5:59PM PDT

I agree that setting up your "Private Cloud" is much more secure than using a public facility. Also agree that the Synology box is a very well built, flexible and reliable unit.

Helping a neighbour to set one up, we did run into one challenge, that his (ancient) router wasn't compatible with it - surprise to me too! A more modern router solved the problem easily and cheaply.

Now for the "But". Please don't be complacent. Even if you configure the NAS for mirrored RAID, you will have protection against a single disk failure but not necessarily against a failure that affects the whole NAS, such as a power spike or a brown out. So the standard advice of maintaining an independent backup remains.

Also, there is presently some "Ransomware" malware live that attacks some NAS boxes, including Synology, that encrypts the data within and demands a ransom, in Bitcoin, yet, within 5 days to provide the key to unlock it. The best protection is an independent backup and a hardware firewall, either standalone or in your router, properly configured to block unwanted web access.

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Backup of the backup
Aug 23, 2014 11:47AM PDT

Yes, you are correct. That's why for every RAID NAS I have, there is a second entire NAS to duplicate the data on the running one. They get backed up about every week with software I wrote to do just that. It is quite similar to Robocopy except with a visual interface where you can see what it plans to do before letting it go. Robocopy does what it does without any warning or plan. It just goes for it. And if it wants to delete stuff, it is deleted before you can stop it! You get notified after the fact. Scary!!

So you are right. I cloud locally and I duplicate data locally on separate devices. That means that a house fire would shut me down. No remote backup. For my company data, I also cloud at the business, duplicate onto a separate NAS at the business and backup remotely every night. So it would have to be a very large disaster for me to lose it all.

I am paranoid about data loss and try to plan for every normal catastrophe. It may not be perfect but no data lost in 12 years. So I feel fairly good about it. But still paranoid! Oh, yeah, I still keep differential backups. 7 years of that data, too. Only unique files kept so I gain version control on a monthly basis.

Have considered, but not implemented VLAN so the students won't even see the NAS but they don't know the strong passwords and are not computer savvy for the most part so I have not VLAN'd yet.

Mike

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In-house data storage
Aug 23, 2014 10:05AM PDT

Am I missing something? If you store your data on an in-home system, you run the risk of loss or damage by water, fire or by theft, don't you?

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Backup of the backup
Aug 23, 2014 2:30PM PDT

Didn't I say that? I said fire. OK... Water, Earthquake, Bulldozer accidentally running into the house and pushing it over, termites, Wild NAS eating Zombies... what else? Enough yet?

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Security
Aug 23, 2014 12:38PM PDT

You have to cosider the security of your data another way. You can have a NAS cloud at home and that's great for accessing your data anywhere.

But what if there's a fire at home when you're not there and the NAS unit is destroyed?

I personally feel safer with my important files somewhere like Dropbox as well as locally on your machines. That's why I like Dropbox. The files exist both in the cloud and on your local machines - synched via the cloud.

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Not a real solution
Aug 23, 2014 6:11PM PDT

Your idea is very attractive in a certain aspect, but you are not protecting yourself against local catastrophes such as fires or theft. If something happens to your house or office, if there is a fire, earthquake, tornado, or flooding, or someone takes your computers, you have no backup. Clouds like Amazon, Microsoft, IBM, or such, have the backup off site and the redundancy in multiple locations around the world, so that if a New Orleans-style flood destroys your office, a Chicago-style fire converts everything to ashes, or you go to your office one day and find that the place has been wiped clean while you were away, you can recover your data in minutes. Most of those clouds have redundant storage facilities in three or four continents. Of course, that has its price, but your own backup can never match it.