christmas present

i know these are more than what i originally said but out of these what do you think?

Canon Zr-800
Canon Zr-830
Sony DCH-HC28
JVC GRD-750

out of those 4 i really like the jvc. i heard some complaints about the canon's that they have a humming or clicking noise from the tape. the sony doesn't have a transfer cable and i need a firewire and thats another 40$ from sony. the jvc has gotten some good reviews and has everything i think im looking for

because it is the only one with a mic-in jack.

All are miniDV tape based and will require transfer using Firewire/i.Link/IEEE1394. None of the camcorders includes a Firewire cable in the box. You do not need to use a Sony Firewire (i.Link) cable. I use a Sony HDR-HC1 and I use a Belkin 4-pin to 6-pin Firewire400 cable to transfer video to my Mac.

the clicking noise from the tape. i hear that is a somewhat common problem with these. i don't know if that's true or what not, but i really don't want to have to deal with a loud humming or clicking noise on the video. if it isn't as bad as people say, then that might be the way to go. but im no expert so thats why im asking you guys!

If yours does when new, pack and return it fast.

There will be an issue in low noise environments. For example a "researcher" was in the forest and the background noise is so low that the mic gains up to the point where the camcorder is the loudest sound around. This is not a bug.

Bob

is common to many consumer camcorders - the built-in mics are in the same space as, and right next to, the tape transport mechanism. The mics are merely doing their job... especially if there is very low or no noise for the mics to pick up...

THAT is one of the reasons a mic-in jack (in the ZR800 only) was pointed out to you. If you use an external mic, it is not in the same space as the tape transport mechanism.

how much are external mics? im sorry im really new to this. so if i were to get an external mic then that would alleviate that clicking noise, or am i just being really paranoid about this whole idea.

thousands - it depends what kind you get. Check the forum sticky...

You will want mics that connect using a 1/8" mic-in jack. Audio Technica and RODE would be in the ball-park. The ZR800 does not have an accessory shoe, so a $10 camera bracket will cove that - again, check the Camcorder forum sticky.

If what you are recording has "normal" levels of noise... background TV, some crowd noise, etc, you will not have the problems with the mics picking up the tape transport. Also, be advised that if the audio is too loud (like an amplified band or you are really close to a marching band), the audio will sound really muddy and cannot be fixed - none of the camcorders on your list have manual audio level control.

so i did a little research about the two brands you suggested. i found the Audio Technica atr 25. i know this is at the very low end of camcorder mics but i think this may be something worth my money if i do in fact have problems with the clicking noise. i realize this is all hypothetical because who knows if i get the camcorder and it will have any problems at all. but is this a decent mic that would suite my casual needs?

will be fine for your requirements. The added bonus is that is comes with a accessory-shoe mounting mic clip. Be sure to get the camera bracket mentioned, too - the ZR800 does not have an accessory shoe to mount the mic clip. I recommend the one with the handle - not the straight one...

available - this is just an example...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/70990-REG/Kalt_NPLBRACK__L_Flash_Bracket.html

i really appreciate all the help and advice you have given me, its been very, well, helpful!

to help and learn.