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General discussion

Choosing between 3 Notebooks with Dedicated Video Memory

Jan 6, 2005 3:29PM PST

I am very glad to have learned the value of dedicated RAM. To think a week ago I didn't even know it mattered. Thanks Ken!

I am Leaning toward getting a HPZT300 computer - and think it will be a very good fit for me because the weight is o.k. for my use and I like the 15" screen. Is it exactly the same as the Compaq X1000? I just like the black color more so that's why I'd go for the HP. Are there any other differences?


I'm choosing between 3 notebooks right now. They are:
_______________

IBM R51 with a dedicated ATI Mobility 9000 32MB Video Card :

Intel

Discussion is locked

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Fujitsu is the best Video card . . . but no widescreen.
Jan 6, 2005 9:08PM PST

The zt3000 is the best buy of this bunch, though the ATI 9700 is a better video card even with the same amount of ram. Fujitsu is not the best notebook company, In My Opinion. And on top of that, the first two (and more expsensive) laptops don't have a 15.4" widescreen.

If you like the widescreen on the Zt3000 but want more video card, consider the Inspiron 8600. You have available to you the ATI 9700 128MB and with that configuration you're looking at $1500-1800, less than the IBM and the Fujitsu. The zt3000 is about .5 lbs lighter than the 8600, and you have to try the keyboards on both. I detest the layout on HP but some don't like the feel on the Dell.

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HP
Jan 7, 2005 3:04AM PST

1st of all, the IBM ATI 9000 video card and the HPZT3000/Compaq X1000 video card 9200 are essentially the same thing. You can go into the separate long section at X1000forums.com to read about this. Essentially, the the only difference between the two is that the ATI 9200 had a higher AGP specification but on the Centrino motherboard that is not supported. And, HP/Compaq actually put an ATI 9000 chip on the board but it is called an ATI 9200. Anyway, there is no effective difference between the 2......

The ATI 9700 is a much better video card if you really want the maximum performance. So a Dell 8600 with the ATI 9600/9700 and 64mb dedicated video will perform somewhat better than the HPZT3000/Compaq X1000 with the same 64mb dedicated video.

Of course the 128mb dedicated video option on the Dell is the ultimate paired with the screaming fast Hitachi 7200rpm 60gb hard drive option. Many people at X1000forums.com have put this in the HPZT3000/Compaq X1000 later themselves but it is not offered by HP (they do offer a 5400rpm hard drive at times).

The Fujitsus that are made in Japan have very good build quality (but Fujitsu-Siemanns noteobooks in Europe are horrid from what I have read) but they are a bit overpriced given that the models under $2000 have only shared video memory and the ones that have the dedicated video are over $2,000 (too much given Longhorn 64 will be here in 2 years or so).

If you like the keyboard and layout of the HPZT3000/Compaq X1000 as I do but want the ATI 9600/9700 video card try to find an Acer 2025 (Acer 200 series) online -- this is 6.6 pounds and the same notebook internally as the HP/Compaq --they are all built by Compal in China -- it has the ATI 128mb dedicated video also -- the problem is that it is hard to find and may be discontinued and Acer has a more uncertain service reputation than the larger Dell or HP/Compaq.

Note also that Dell has a more expensive Pentium M 17" LCD model that also has the ATI 128mb dedicated video option if you really want to spend over $2,000 -- that one would give you a great LCD and still give you Pentium M efficiency -- but of course anything larger than a 15.4" LCD can't be carried in a notebook backpack.

Make sure you see the general section of X1000forums.com for all discounts -- there are higher rebates available at the mail in rebates link on the hpshopping home page for configure to order models .. also 3% Fatcash portal rebate, other coupon codes, etc.

Also, you should only order 1 stick of RAM (PC 2700) from HP/Compaq and put in your own 512mb 200pin Notebook (I put in Kingston) later for under $100after rebate -- If you can't get 512mb 1 stick just order 256mb 1 stick and you can still go to 768mb and get the best value (and that is more than enough RAM for most uses --the RAM does not have to be 'matched' anymore --------

note that only the 2nd slot is easily accessible under the notebook --the 1st one can be accessed under the keyboard but do not do so during the warranty period

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Thank You very much Ken & Ryan!
Jan 7, 2005 3:35AM PST

First - Ryan, I didn't know that the IBM and the Fujitsu don't have the 15.4" widescreen. I don't have much laptop experience, so I'll check these out at Best Buy or Fry's, but I didn't realize that the HPZT3000/Compaq X1000 has a widescreen & that might be nice to have.

Second - Ken, thanks for pointing out that the differences between 9000 and 9200 are small - yes, the 9700 is even better, but for me getting 64 MB of dedicated RAM is *so much better* for my digital photography work than the shared RAM I almost bought in the under 5 lb. Fujitsu I considered! I'm not concerned about having 9000 or 9200 or 9700, they'll all do the trick. Just by having 64 MB of dedicated video RAM I will be much better off - so thanks for alerting me to this!

The Fujitsus seem a bit pricey at $2,000+ for the 64 MB dedicated, but I don't really know what the machine feels or looks like, so I should check that out at Fry's. But I definitely do not need 128 MB of dedicated RAM right now, so I think that the Dell 8600 with the superfast hard drive is probably more than I need.

If I go with the HPZT3000 and configure it with Windows XP Pro, 80 Gig HD, 512 RAM (1 slot preferable), 64 MB dedicated video memory (ATI Mobility 9200) --- what do you think it should cost?

And what is a Fatcash Portal rebate? At your suggestion I will look at the general section of X1000forums.com for all discounts -- and rebates available at the mail in rebates link on the hpshopping home page.

Thanks again, I can't tell you how nice it is for you to help a total notebook novice get a grip on this stuff.

Jeff

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Fatcash/rebates, etc
Jan 7, 2005 3:49AM PST

As I said, the Dell 8600 with the ATI 9600/9700 with 64mb dedicated video is going to be better than the HPZT3000/Compaq X1000 with the same 64mb dedicated (you don't have to go to 128mb dedicated video).

I like the Compaq X1000 I have for my use and the metal bezel around the LCD and the aluminum lid are nice touches the Dell 8600 does not have (and Dell is about 1/2 a pound heavier as well and thicker).

Read the posts though on X1000forums.com and also here today about a few of these having video card failure after a year or so -- but the vast majority have not had this issue (and I have not on mine).

Fatcash is a portal where you sign up for free. Then you go to any listed site once signed up and a window applet opens (if blocked by your pop up blocker you have to allow it to work). When you go to hpshopping.com and purchase the notebook with the Fatcash applet window open (and you are registered) you will get a 3% deferred rebate later -- via Paypal I think ...see X1000forumsc.com for details.

There are coupon codes to save more money at times at certain sites like techbargains.com -- again, X1000forums.com users post many of these in the general section (pay attention to pinned topics at top).

Note that a 5400rpm hard drive is up to 50% faster in seek time than a 4200 rpm and the 7200rpm hard drive is another 20% improvement on top of that. Often the 5400rpm hard drive is not much more ($25-$50 than a 4200rpm of the same GB size) ........

Also, make sure there is not a higher rebate in the mail in rebates link at hpshopping.com than the ones on the order screen (any configure to order notebook means you).

Also, if you order Dell or HP/Compaq custom through Costco.com (you have to be a member of course) you get a Costco 6 month return policy on top of the manufacturer warranty -- use the Costco AMEX or any AMEX or qualified Visa/MC with warranty doubling and get 2 years limited warranty coverage for free (doubles standard 1 year from manufacturer).

And, if you are a college student or have a qualified employer check out the hpshopping 6% APP discount (student) or EPP 12% employer discount

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Now I like the X1000 more than the HPZ3000
Jan 7, 2005 4:01AM PST

I just called hpshopping.com and found that they offer the same X1000 for $1,478 after $100 instant rebate and $30 mail in rebate. The HPZT3000 is $1,674 after $50 mail in rebate. So the same notebook is $200 bucks less at the Compaq side.

I'll probably go with that, even though I wish they would sell it with one slot of 512 so I could just buy one on my own and be off to the races with 1 Gig of RAM.

I am a Costco member so I'll consider customizing & buying my computer through their website as you suggest. I'll also opt for the 5400 RPM HD as it seems like a great improvement for a low price.

I plan to drive to Costco this afternoon (I'll call first) just to see the computer in person.

Jeff

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HPZT3000/Compaq X1000 NOT at Costco retail (Costco.com)
Jan 7, 2005 5:22AM PST

They don't have the HPZT3000/Compaq X1000 in the Costco retail stores. They do have the HPDV1000 series which is a 14" widescreen with shared/integrated memory, a built in remote control and CD/DVD functions with the operating system turned off (5.3 pounds).

Costco.com custom ordering for HP/Compaq or Dell will link you with the manufacturer custom ordering websites and you get the same warranty and ordering options.

I think Costco gives you a small additional discount but you can't use the Fatcash 3% deferred discount through Costco and some people can avoid paying sales tax through hpshopping.com but always will pay sales tax through Costco.com (in CA both have nexus so this is not an issue). But the 6 month Costco return policy even if you have to pay sales tax if worth considering....

Make sure you configure both a Compaq X1000 or HPZT3000 for what you want and compare the price (not just over the phone) as the lowest price can vary all the time.

The HPZT3000 is all black inside with a silver sticker glued over the touchpad and no touchpad ridge.

The Compaq X1000 is half black (keyboard area) and half silver (lower end of deck) with the black touchpad and the ridge between the scroll and mouse functions.

HP has the more traditional look while Compaq has a more modernist look. The silver paint on the Compaq can fade a bit easier under the palms but I use www.laptopgellyfish.com gelpads to both cushion my palms and protect the deck paint (have colors to match both the HPZT30000 (yellow is best on black)or the Compaq X1000 (blue looks best) -- they are not that expensive and can be removed and repositioned but stay in place while in use.

Circuit City still has an older HPZT3380US model but that does not have the XGA Briteview LCD you can get now at hpshopping.com, it has the DVD+ only DVD burner (order DVD burner multiformat +/- online or just get a CD-RW/DVD ROM like I have for less $) ...

also make sure you order the Intel 2200b/g wi-fi card (not the b only card) and order the bluetooth internal option (part of the wi-fi ordering package minipci card) of you think you will use that (it costs a lot more to try to add it internally later, trust me).

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Ken, which do you like better? Your HP or your Compaq?
Jan 7, 2005 9:21AM PST

As far as the monitor goes, should I get the XGA Briteview LCD - or is there another that you think is better? I'll be viewing photos & working in Photoshop.

Also, do you think the internal DVD burner is a good idea? I could get an external DVD burner if you think that's wiser. I know I'll need to backup my digital photos (about 4 gigs each week), since I shoot a lot of pictures. Another another option is for me to just hook the notebook up to an external HD and make an archive there, instead of on DVDs. In that case, like you I can get the CD-RW/DVD ROM in the notebook. What do you think?

Thanks for saving me the trip to Costco - I didn't go there. I'm thinking of visiting Best Buy tomorrow...though I'd likely buy from hpshopping.com & will price both the HP and Compaq as you suggest.

Jeff

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Retail units HP/Compaq usually DVD+ burner only /LCD
Jan 7, 2005 9:43AM PST

Jeff, when I bought my Compaq X1360US (which had the prior generation Pentium M 1.4 in May 2004) it was at Circuit City and did not have the Briteview LCD yet. I was lucky to end up with 512mb 1 stick so I was able to expand (many retail models give you 256x2 = 512 so you cannot expand without wasting RAM as another poster today found out).

They replaced that model later in Circuit City with the HPZT3380US -- I have not seen the Compaq in Circuit City recently but check Circuit City.com (and note which ones are listed as being at retail).

I did NOT see the HPZT3000 or Compaq X1000 series recently at Best buy retail (they have the HPDV1000 series which is very popular but has no video card and a 14" widescreen).

I have the CD-RW/DVD ROM optical drive which is much cheaper. If you order retail like the HPZT3380US at Circuit city it is DVD+ only for the burner which is a waste as many consumer DVD players use DVD- (Sony uses DVD + and this is like VHS/Beta all over again).

However, you can order a multiformat DVD +/- burner at hpshopping either in 4x or 8x speed so if you want one order custom.

You are actually better off if you don't need the DVD burner built in (I don't) getting an external USB 2.0 or firewire (the notebook has both) DVD burner --not only will it be faster but it can be used on multiple computers ........

Remember, to save money custom the best value is to order 256mb RAM 1 stick only --then buy retail (I used Kingston PC2700 notebook RAM 200pin for 69.99 after rebates after rebate) to move to 256+512 = 768mb RAM for LESS than you will pay HP for 512mb if they install it. Or if you have to move to 1gb RAM you have to order 512mb 1 stick -- I was lucky to get this at retail but most specs state 2x256 so would have to confirm this before ordering any retail unit.

I highly recommend the Briteview LCD if you will NOT be using it in a work situation with bright overhead lighting or outside light (window) behind you. The Briteview is a LCD screen treatment that makes the contrast much more vibrant but if used outside alot or under flourescents you would want to keep the non-Briteview LCD (only comes on standard 1200x800 XGA resolution) -- note the in store Circuit City HPZT3380US does NOT have the Briteview LCD.

You can order SXGA resolution or UXGA resolution at hpshopping but both of these are non-Briteview only.

See the display posts in the general section (pinned at top) and the quandray of possible getting a slower Hitachi LCD in SXGA versus a relatively faster refresh rate LG or Samsung at X1000forums.com -- you don't know which one you have unless you burn a Knoppix CD.

UXGA is extreme for most people but some spreadsheet gurus with eyes like a hawk love them.

I stuck with XGA though which is fine for most internet use and note that the widescreen will display more spreadsheet columns even without making the pixels smaller.

A word to the wise -- LCD's only have 1 native resolution so choose wisely (unlike CRT's) -- DVD's will look better the higher the resolution (as more pixels more detail -- but they look great on all 2 especially with the 15.4" widescreen Briteview LCD.

You can view the Briteview LCD on the 14" widescreen HPDV1000 as I told you but again that LCD is smaller and the notebook case is not comparable either.

Toshiba M35 models sometimes have Trubrite which is very similar and of course Sony has its Xbrite Screens --these are all a similar treatment (Fujitsu has Crystal view)

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Compaq X1000 $100 instant rebate,HPZT3000 $50 mail in rebate
Jan 7, 2005 10:06AM PST

Jeff:

I just discovered that the Compaq X1000 right now has a $100 instant rebate which the HPZT3000 has a $50 mail in rebate so that is a big reason to get the Compaq note (no messy rebate at all) if that model has what you want.

The only problems right now are that they don't have 512mb 1 stick RAM available so I would recommened ordering 256mb 1 stick and adding 512mb more yourself later to go to 768mb -- or just biting the bullet and paying for 1GB upfront if you are willing to pay that (512mb x 2).

Also, they only have 4200rpm hard drives -- I have one of these but a 5400rpm hard drive is up to 50% faster in seek time and you will notice the difference. They have those on the HPDV1000 order screen (and the 512mb 1 stick RAM also) but not the Compaq X1000/HPZT3000 right now.

Finally, make sure you order 64mb dedicated video RAM (only $25 more than 32mb) and the 1.6 Pentium M 725 is fine (the 1.7 is only incrementally faster --both have the full 2mb L2 system cache -- don't order less than a 715 Pentium M or it is not a Dothan with the 2mb L2 system cache

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Briteview? Heh.
Jan 7, 2005 9:46AM PST

The high-gloss LCDs are nice but I wouldn't buy a computer for it. Be aware that there are devices on the market that can be placed on the LCD of most notebooks and create the high-gloss effect. I still think the Sager would be an excellent choice.

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HP/Compaq/Dell overseas service but Sager service --------
Jan 7, 2005 10:01AM PST

Apparently you are not aware of the service issues with Sager which makes the overseas HP/Compaq and Dell service seem like Shangri-La. You mentioned all the out of date drivers and the like yourself with the unit you shipped and you were technically skilled enough to get around that but many consumers want the notebook bios and drivers to be up to date and they are when custom ordered from hpshopping.com --the units ship after being custom built from Compal in China (via Shanghai) to people's doors.

I had a bios issue myself as my prebuilt retail Compaq X1000 had an issue resolved by downloading the updated bios at the web site (And I found out about the issue immediately at X1000forums.com).

Try to do that with a Sager.

Dell, HP/Compaq, Toshiba and even Gateway are better options than a Sager unless you are confortable with trouble-shooting and lack of parts later........

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I disagree
Jan 7, 2005 10:36AM PST

I haven't had any particular service issues with Sager-Midern. I opted to install everything from scratch rather than have the computer set up for me, as I already own a copy of Windows XP Professional. Had they pre-configured the computer for me, I probably would have received the computer with up-to-date drivers. Instead, I was provided a driver installation disc.

The Realtek audio codecs have been upgraded on roughly a bi-weekly basis for the last couple of months. ATI has been fairly frequently updating the Catalyst drivers as well, so between the two, I would expect a small amount of lag-time in driver updates.

PCTorque (a Sager retailer) host extensive notebook forums as well. These forums are located at notebookforums.com (inventive, huh)? Most of the standard Sager drivers are available from the Sager website. I would not purchase the hardware directly from Sager-Midern, however. The company itself is a pain to deal with with a fairly slow turnaround rate. Use a reseller and make life easy.

Most of the parts are pretty generic because Sager tends to use Clevo notebook kits, which are pretty common. I believe that Alienware and Voodoo have both used the Sager 3790 chassis. Most of the information is pretty easy to find.

I've had nothing but problems with Dell myself. As a technical support specialist at my college, I have had to deal with a number of asinine and egregious errors with their computers.

One of the simpler cases involved a computer where the DVD-ROM/CD-RW drives (both different models from different manufacturers) were configured as basic CD-ROM drives and the appropriate drivers were not available from Dell support. I eventually just manually altered the registry to enable both drives as recording devices. Very user-friendly and up-to-date indeed!

Gateway is also a good provider. My father has been using a 450XL for the better part of a year now and hasn't had any problems with the device.

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Do search here for Sager service posts yourself
Jan 7, 2005 12:08PM PST

"As a technical support specialist at my college, I have had to deal with a number of asinine and egregious errors with their computers."

Like I said, you are more technically literate than many want to get so you can deal with Sager if you wish.

Do a search of these forums for all the issues with Sager service our Cnet moderator, Bob Probert, has published along with the Sony service issue.

Toshiba, Dell, and HP/Compaq all have various problems and Toshiba has a static issue right now on these boards with A75's.

Gateway is one of the major manufacturers so your advice regarding Gateway would fall in with the above manufacturers as well as IBM and Apple (#1 in reliability and service)

Yes, I am familiar with notebookforums.com and I have referred people there for posts about Dell, Toshiba, and Acer in general.

These are not dedicated to a specific model, however as R3000forums.com, zd7000forums.com, X1000forums.com, DV1000forums.com and others are for HP/Compaq (and not run by the manufacturer)

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I Still Disagree
Jan 7, 2005 12:31PM PST

Although Apple tends to have more articulate and literate technical support than most other companies, I've found that they generally try to abrogate responsibility for problems in-warranty and their turn-around rate on resolving hardware issues is really poor. I used Apple for quite a few years until the middle of this year, when they didn't have a notebook model that really impressed me and I was tired of console gaming.

I simply don't deal with Dell. The few times I have called them, I've gotten dunces. Dell's reputation is also less then sterling when all is said and done. You can call it luck of the draw if you want, but I don't have much respect for Dell.

Alternatively, though, one of the techs who works with me uses an Inspiron XPS and is very happy with the device, and has had nothing but 'good experiences' with Dell technical support. He would defend them until the day he dies.

Ultimately, if the problem is hardware parts, you could probably just work right around Sager and obtain the materials from Clevo. Again, working through a reseller is a good idea too. Sager's reputation is somewhat sporadic, but PCTorque has an excellent reputation and has many very professional people working for them.

And seriously, if the only problems I've had with my laptop are downloading upgraded video and audio drivers, reseating my keyboard and tightening the bezel on my Toshiba DVD-ROM/CD-RW drive, then I wouldn't be stressing it.

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Sager, Perhaps
Jan 7, 2005 8:56AM PST

I might consider the Sager 3790 model, as it has an impressive amount of power for a decent price. In terms of hardware, it does have a few things you need to be aware of. In particular, the sound options are negligable. The integrated Realtek solution is restricted to two channels and is not very good, while the built-in speakers are simply weak. I might try the Creative Audigy 2 ZS Notebook if this is a problem. I'd say the sound is adequate if you use headphones. Headphones help a LOT. This is not really an issue specific to Sager. Most notebook sound solutions are pretty bad.

Other than that, most of my complaints are minor. The integrated web-camera is (not surprisingly) pretty bad and requires a very specific amount of light at just the right angle to be of any use at all. The built-in microphone is weak but adequate.

The trim is gorgeous but accumulates dirt very quickly. I use the Sager very extensively as both desktop solution and a portable multimedia device, and in the three months I've owned the device, the chassis has slight, dark imprints where I usually rest my hands.

All of the ports are on the sides or front, which is both convenient and frustrating at the same time. The keyboard has full-sized spacing, but some keys have been resized - in particular, the function keys, the arrow keys and the navigation keys (Home, PgUp/PgDn, etc).

My Sager shipped with a couple of small issues. The bezel on my DVD-ROM drive was loose and the keyboard was not seated properly, but otherwise everything was fine. The computer arrived with a single dead pixel around 100 x 10, which is pretty negligable.

Sager is pretty anal about warranties and will only honor the warranty as per the contract, no exceptions.

The computer will probably ship with outdated drivers, particularly for the sound. Realtek has been working very hard to improve their integrated sound solutions and has been updating their drivers on an extremely regular basis. If the included video drivers are inadequate, I would replace them with modified ATI Catalyst drivers. Omega drivers have not been released that are compatible with 15.4" widescreen displays.

When all is said and done, however, the Sager 3790 is a great piece of hardware. The 1680x1050 screen is absolutely gorgeous. I personally wouldn't suggest the WXGA or WUXGA options. The ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 w/ 128MB is one of the more powerful portable graphics solutions on the market, eclipsed only by the newer nVidia options, the ATI Mobility 9700 w/ 256MB and the ATI Mobility 9800. The Pentium-M processor is a combination of respectable performance with above-average longevity. The default memory modules were timed at DDR333 and haven't given me any problems, so I haven't replaced them.

The Sager 3790 can be shipped without an OS, which saved me a respectable amount of money, as I already own Windows XP Professional. The case that ships with the computer is okay but not spectacular, as it's kind of thin and doesn't offer a great amount of protection.

The computer clocks at approximately seven pounds with the twelve-cell battery. I do not suggest the six-cell battery.

One final note: although the performance increase on a hard drive is significant from 4200 RPM to 5400 RPM, it is decidedly smaller when moving from 5400 RPM to 7200 RPM.