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CES 2007: MiniDV format on its way out???

Attention all of the MiniDV users or bound to be users. According to announcements at CES, there have been drastic decreases in each company's MiniDV line of camcorders and increases in announcements of HDV, AVCHD, DVD, HDD, and Flash camcorders. Sony announces only 3 new models for this year. Panasonic does the same. Canon slims down to only 3 new models as well. Samsung announces only 1 MiniDV model. JVC slows down to only 2 new models. Does this spell the near end for the format? Has the world of HD taken over? Has the popular format met its match?

A link that you might want to read:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/CES-2007.htm

Feel free to give your thoughts about this move made by the camcorder companies.

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What is it with you and

In reply to: CES 2007: MiniDV format on its way out???

MiniDV... tape? Did it beat you as a child or kill your pet?

Regarding Sony's "3 new miniDV models"... that does not include the HDR-HC5 and HDR-HC7 - both new high-definition camcorders which use miniDV tape. So... your "3" is wrong because the number is "5". This "estimate" is about as far off as your MacBook Pro vs Dell estimate. And until the AVCHD codecs are made available for folks to edit high-definition video on the hard drive based and DVD based camcorders, those units are standard definition only.

As for the Panasonic SDR announced models - when they need to compare to a 8cm DVD for recording time "improvement", that's a little like comparing a 1964 Volkswagen Bug to a 2007 version... Why anyone would compare the worst in the technology with the newest (and supposedly best) is doing some serious marketing spin. And in High Definition, they are in the same AVCHD boat Sony is. NOTHING to edit with.

Samsung's not even available until September. Yawn.

JVC's HD Everio at $1,800 (MSRP) is too much more than the others... With luck it will have better optics and imaging than the previous JVCs, but they are late to market... I hope they didn't saddle it with AVCHD like Sony and Panasonic did...

It takes a small bit of common sense and a teeny bit of reading to know that high-definition televisions have been selling like crazy - it only makes sense that high-definition cameras would be the big announcements from camcorder manufacturers... and with the onslaught of BluRay and HD-DVD players, it was pretty much expected... unless of course maybe you were expecting a bunch of new miniDV based camcorders with all these electronics and news and faster-smaller-better swirling around us for the last few years... CES is the place for announcements of new product... or am I missing something in your questions?

But to say all this "spells the end" of the miniDV format is ludicrous. Go into any semi-decent video studio, and you will find BETA (and VHS because they have to)... because the quality is good, and the gear is still made and supported. The world of high definition basically took over last year... and to capture it, I was using minDV... and the pro-grade stuff continues that path... along with hard drive, DVD and flash-based media. (Though I suppose you believe film is dead, too - in case you were not aware, most movies are done using film...)

When the image quality is as good or better than I can get now, I will be ready to move to the next great technology... but I just have not seen it yet... Have you? If you have, where and how and with what gear? If you have not, why are you asking what you are asking?

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I stand corrected - the Sony HDR-HC5 and 7 are

In reply to: What is it with you and

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(NT) hmmm... one of them needs to post a correction...

In reply to: I thought...

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It is going out for those who are satisfied with lower

In reply to: CES 2007: MiniDV format on its way out???

quality video. These folks want video to be quick and simple. They want simple point & shoot cameras, and they think that hard disks or DVDs will make life a lot simpler. I think many of these folks will wind up deeply disappointed. We're hearing from the DVD people right now who have lost priceless, for them, video.

The high end cameras are still solidly MiniDV, tape based machines. They can feed hard drives, but the hard drives needed are VERY expensive. I point to the latest Canon HDV cameras which are just hitting the market. All tape based. They are for people, including pros, who recognize the importance of high quality video.

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Just stating the facts....

In reply to: CES 2007: MiniDV format on its way out???

I was in no way putting down the format as it seems that is what my post meant to you both. It was merely a discussion question aimed not at me but just to get some feelings from other people about what they think is going and will be going on through the next years. It seems like you both took it the wrong way.

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You seem to have misread the reply. I was trying to put some

In reply to: Just stating the facts....

context around the HD equipped cameras. If you don't recognize that you are pushing the HD cameras as a sort of panacea, then you have lost perspective. The movement you point out is present, but its context is, IMO, what I indicated. It is for folks who want convenience and quick results. It is not for folks who want quality.

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Yes but...

In reply to: You seem to have misread the reply. I was trying to put some

In your post where you said, "you are pushing the HD cameras as a sort of panacea", that isn't true. I am not saying that all MiniDV camcorders will come to this fate. I didn't say HD was the answer to the rest of the camcorder industry. As a discussion has once again turned into an unnecessary argument, I am done arguing because it makes no sense at all, just wasted space on this thread which could be used for thoughts about the original question(s).

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I am referring to the overall context of your posts, and

In reply to: Yes but...

your header 'MiniDV format on its way out???' is quite unambiguous.

If other people are seeing the same thing, and you aren't, the problem is likely to be your viewpoint.

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agreed

In reply to: Yes but...

Yeah, whiz, I agree with you. You merely asked a bunch of questions to start a chat and weird stuff (from some clearly knowledgable types) started!!

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Well I feel that the stupid DVD formant is on the way out!

In reply to: CES 2007: MiniDV format on its way out???

Lets see now HD cameras??? How do you store the Giga Bytes of data needed for 720p or 1080i video on the those mini-DVDs??? You can't!!!!
Flash memory??? Hard dives??? Maybe! But at what compression ratio??? what recording time for the High quality setting?
The pro HD cameras use tape!!!!! Even the high end consumer HD cameras are MiniDV.
The raw capture footage of MiniDV is close to HD in quality, MinDV has a data rate 25mb/sec, 720p is 45mb/sec and 1080i is 50mb/sec. The max date rate for a standard DVD is about 11mb/sec, half of the MiniDV date rate.
I find it strange that as consumers are clamoring for HD, the cameras that are offered will not give that quality, but will offer something that is less. john

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Surprisingly.....

In reply to: Well I feel that the stupid DVD formant is on the way out!

JVC has gotten itself into the HD HDD game as well as Sony. Even though AVCHD (in it's first generation) is nowhere near HDV, it has potential. But before that happens, JVC has come up with a new compression algorithm that is MPEG-2 Transport Stream with Variable Bit Rate. The max bitrate for this is 30Mpbs. That is more than miniDV which hence gives better quality. Plus it is stored on a 60GB HDD which means a lot of storage. The HDD can hold 5 hours of highest HD quality video at nearly the same quality as HDV maybe even better once it goes into 2nd Gen. So basically 5 tapes of HD video would fit into this 60GB HDD. Here is a link to the camcorder:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/JVC-GZ-HD7-First-Impressions-Review.htm

Nice camcorder, BTW...

Looks to be a very promising format after all....

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LOL! JVC?

In reply to: Surprisingly.....

Care to say what a bitrate of 30Mpbs is? Mega pixel bits per second?

It's more marketing hype. What do you do after you fill up the 60gbyte hard drive with five hours of video? Write it to tape?

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Excuse me.....

In reply to: LOL! JVC?

It is 30 megaBITS per second courtesy of the article I posted!! BTW, I've never heard of mega pixel bits per second before so could you please let me know what that is if there is such thing, thank you...

I assume like everyone else that they would connect to the computer using a cable(wow), then transferring it(sure), then editing it with (OMG) video editing software, then using a DVD authoring program to (you guessed it hopefully) to burn it to DVD. Wow! Simple as that. Why bother with tape? Don't need it....

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I was trying to guess what mpbs could stand for.

In reply to: Excuse me.....

So, again, no backup, and you must get that video processed and burned immediately. Sounds like a good, reliable work flow as long as the DVD never goes bad, and you travel with a computer capable of doing all the editing overnight.

Tape is a LOT simpler. Stick it on the shelf until you have time to work with it. Pop a new tape into the camera. Move on.

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In a couple of years...

In reply to: Well I feel that the stupid DVD formant is on the way out!

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Yes...

In reply to: In a couple of years...

I agree this is a very interesting alternative. I mentioned this earlier in a previous post a couple of days ago. Once they get to doubling(64GB) or even quadrupling(128GB), it will be worth it. Less compression would be needed. I am still interested in an article I saw about a year ago where a company was experimenting on a type of storage not using a medium but air or volume storage. Volume can hold more "stuff" in a given amount of space. There are many more options using this type because it seems to be able to hold MANY terabytes, possibly exobytes eventually. Anyway that's my wishful thinking but I would say someday this will probably be a reality.

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MiniDV rules

In reply to: CES 2007: MiniDV format on its way out???

Such timing...I was just looking over various camcorder offerings at a local consumer electronics store and after watching video captured by the camcorders using DVD media, hard drive and MiniDV tape on a 60-inch Sony t.v. it was clear: the compression used by DVD and hard drive based recorders left the viewing experience far less satisfying than MiniDV.

Maybe on a 32-inch t.v. one wouldn't notice a different (or much of one), but sometimes tried and true technology is better than the latest and 'greatest'.

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