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centrino / 64 bits / HT

Hi,

I would like to buy a laptop. I know centrino is good, but their prossessors are low GHz... Also, The P4 pross are hight GHz, but not as good as centrino (P-M) for the battery life. Morehover, the new wave is the 64 bits pross. So, my question is waht is better between a P 4 pross and a centrino laptop (P-M pross)? Also, is there P-M pross at 64 bits? So, what should I buy? A centrino laptop, a laptop with a P 4 pross or a laptop with a 64 bits pross?

Finnally, if the GHz of a P-M pross, it should be tjhat they are better, so a 1,8GHz P-M proos is equivalent to what in a P 4 pross?

Thanks a lot,
Blakco

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: centrino / 64 bits / HT

There are some new security features in Windows Service Pack 2 (available on Windows Update now or to be included on all new computers in October 2004 and later) that take advantage of AMD Athlon 64bit CPU's.

Otherwise, the full benefit of 64bit chips will not be seen on the consumer level until the next generation Windows Longhorn Operating system is released in 2006 likely or later.

Both the Intel Pentium M and the Athlon 64 64bit cpus run at a lower mhz than Intel Pentium 4M cpus which are fine on desktops but are not ideal for notebook use (due to excessive heat requiring thicker and heavier notebook designs and low battery life).

AMD Athlon 64bit notebooks (HP/Compaq sells one) are a decent alternative but their battery life is still less than Intel Pentium M notebooks and also thicker.

Pentium M (Centrino) notebooks will get at least 3.5-4 hours battery life using wi-fi 100% of the time or longer if that is switched off (and you can save more power by not using an external mouse, turning down the LCD brightness, etc.

Intel will be introducing 64bit chips later closer to the emergence of Microsoft Longhorn.

For now, however the Pentium M is the best value if you want the best combination of lighter weight, battery life, and performance.

You will get at least a 1.5x mhz improvement for the Pentium M versus the Pentium 4M so a 1.7 Pentium M 735 Dothan would be similar to a 2.55mhz Pentium 4M or better (some say performance can be between 1.5 and 2x but 1.5 is conservative).

If you get a Pentium M notebook (Centrino) just make sure you get a 715 Pentium M Dothan or higher --- this has 2mb L2 system cache (for faster loading times than using system RAM for what is stored in the cache -- this is double what the 705 Pentium M and older Banias Pentium M's had -- if you look at any notebook if it states 1Mb L2 system cache you are getting the older cpu.

The 745 Pentium M 1.8 and 745 Pentium M 755 are both priced too high as they are the top of the line -- the Pentium M 725 1.6 is $400 less than the 2.0 if ordering at HP/Compaq custom and you won't miss the tradeup.

Save your $ for a faster RPM hard drive (5400 or 7200 instead of standard 4200 on notebooks), more RAM (but order less from manufacturer and get more yourself later -- notebooks only have 2 RAM slots so don't fill both), and get the best DEDICATED video RAM you can afford -- at least 64mb dedicated video is good and 128mb dedicated video is ideal.

Note, shared or integrated video is not dedicated and should be avoided if possible as you cannot upgrade your video card easily on a notebook like on a desktop.

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

HI,

Thanks a lot for your good help!

But what is a dedicated graphic card? Is it that you can remove it easily like in a desktop?
Also, how much time does lenght the battery of a laptop with amd 64 bits pross?
Moreover, in centrino technology, there is the battery life that is emprouved, the iwreless connection and what more? Cause if it's just this, almost all laptops have an integrated wireless card (802.11g), so the centrino only have the battery life.

Thanks a lot,
Blacko

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

Sory, I have another question...

Does AMD are doing pross specially for laptops?
Also, if I buy a laptop with a 64 bits pross, 1 Gb of ram, 80 Gb HD at (at least) 5400 rpm, will is last long? how much time?

Thanks again,
Blakco

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

Yes, nearly all quality notebooks out now over $1,000 -- and even some slipping below $1,000 -- have a built in wi-fi card -- make sure you get the 54G/B as G is up to 5x faster then the older b (backwards compatible).

Only a few companies are making 64bit (Athlon) systems so far -- Compaq/HP (they each make a model but they are similar as they are the same company now) and E-machines. Those are the 2 I know about.

I think you might get 2.5 hours of battery life perhaps with an Athlon versus about 2 hours for a Pentium 4.

The Centrino (Pentium M) standard is a Pentium M cpu, a special chipset designed to maximize battery power and wi-fi performance, and an approved built-in wi-fi card (but as you indicated you don't need Centrino to get wi-fi).

For example, the Compaq X1000 series I have (same as HPZT3000) has a 15.4" widescreen and weighs 6.5 pounds. The similar Toshiba M35 series is 6.2 pounds. They both get 3.5 - 4 hours battery life using wi-fi more or more not. You can get larger batteries on the Toshiba to go even longer with battery life but the batteries are smaller and more efficient on the Centrinos to save on size and weight.

The Compaq Athlon 64bit system as the same 15.4 widescreen but it is thicker (as more width needed to cool an Athlon relative to a Pentium M) and weighs more. I think it is 7.9 pounds or so.

See X1000forums.com for the X1000/HPZT3000/HP business nc7000 triplits - you can also get specific questions answered there for these models -- also you can ask about 64bit.....

There are a lot of discounts you can learn about there also like 6% student discount or 12% qualified employer discount, $100 custom order rebate through 9/1/04, etc.

Or Toshiba has 10% off custom order notebooks online right now ....

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

A dedicated video card (mostly ATI or Nvidia) means that a video card is in the notebook and it has its own video memory on that board (not 'sharing' system RAM).

Many cheap desktops or notebooks simply have a graphics chip in the motherboard and share your system RAM. This is ok on a desktop as nearly all can add a video card later at anytime.

You can't do this on a notebook.

The video card is probably the single most important thing to consider (in addition to the LCD size and resolution itself as you only have 1 native resolution unlike CRT's) as you are stuck with what you buy on a notebook.

On the HP/Compaq a custom order 64 mb video dedicated is only $50 more than 32mb dedicated so that is definitely worthwhile.

The Toshiba M35 has similar dedicated video (but Nvidia not ATI) but cheaper Toshibas only have shared video memory.

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

OK,

So on the centrino laptop, the only difference I'll see is the baterry life is it this? Also, what is faster? A P4 3,4 HT or a centrino 1,8 PM? Does the P4 will lag because of the heat?
Also, If I buy a laptop, is it easy to change the cd/dvd drive?
What should I watch if I want to buy RAM later? Should I only buy 256 with my laptop them upgrade by myself? Does all the RAM (coimpagnies)are compatible?
If I buy a 64 bits pross with a laptop with 1 GB R$Am, and a 80 GB HD 7200, will it still be good uin 2-3 years?

Thanks,
Blakco

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

Also, i've looked for some 64 bits pross, there is no laptop with a 64 bits pross that has a video card with 128 of memory... Do you kjnow some?

Thanks,
Blacko

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

Is it easy to change the HD of a laptop?

Thanks,
Blacko

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What is Suse 9.1?

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

"Otherwise, the full benefit of 64bit chips will not be seen on the consumer level until the next generation Windows Longhorn Operating system is released in 2006 likely or later."

Suse 9.1 ships with the 64-bit kernal and XP-64 is free for one year.

Benefits start today.

Bob

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: centrino / 64 bits / HT

Hi, I have another question... (is there an editing button in this forum)

What does the heat from the P4 pross do to the laptop?

Thanks,
Blacko

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

As Bob says, there are some 64bit applications out there already and the new Windows XP SP2 takes advantage of it (hardware virus/worm security) but I have no idea what Suse 9.1 is.

For the mainstream computer market until Windows Longhorn appears (servers are using 64bit already also)Pentium M Centrinos are nice but if you think you will benefit more from the 64bit Athlon notebooks buy one.

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

1) A Pentium 4M in a notebook will run fine but only get one if you will use it as a desktop (on your desk plugged in most of the time or using it on battery for short periods only around the house, etc.) Because they use so much heat they are not good for having on the 'lap' and they are much heavier and thicker due the need for larger batteries to compensate, larger heat sinks to cool the processor, etc.

2)Yes, ordering only 256mb from the manufacturer and adding 512mb yourself (to go to 768mb for only about 80.00 after rebate when on sale (Kingston, PNY, etc) or buying 512mb 1 slot (notbooks only have 2 slots) and going to 1gb yourself if a good idea for cost savings.

3)Yes, you can easily order another compatible hard drive later from Newegg, etc that is a faster speed (example 7200rpm Hitachi). As long as you know how to transfer the hard drive information (via Ghost) or you reload the operating system and drivers from scratch you will be ok.

4) A Pentium 3.4ghz 4M with hyperthreading is definitely faster than a Pentium M Dothan 1.8 -- the Pentium M does not have hyperthreading (although that benefits only when multitasking) and the comparison is 1.5X or better so a Pentium M 1.8 is at least as fast as a 2.7 Pentium 4M and perhaps better (up to 3.0ghz or so) but not 3.4

5) many students order the Compaq X1000/HPZT3000 with the smallest hard drive (4200) they can get and then get only 256mb RAM and add themselves later. Also, you can order different LCD resolutions (XGA, SXGA, UXGA). This is 15.4" notebook widescreen Centrino. Check this forum out even if you order something else as your questions about the ideal configuration, best value, etc will be answered. X1000forums.com

6) No, I don't know of any 64bit systems with a 128mb dedicated video card. HP/Compaq, Emachines, etc are only a few even offering a 64bit Athlon notebook. The HP/Compaq can be ordered with 64mb dedicated video and that is decent (can play Doom 3 at lowered settings -- see X1000forums.com).

If you really want the 128mb dedicated video get a Pentium 4M and use it as a desktop or get an Acer that has it (but they are only sold prebuilt) or Dell 8600, etc.

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

HI,

Is it hard to replace the HD of a laptop?
Is it hard to replace the RAm of a laptop?
So on the centrino laptop, the only difference I'll see is the baterry life is it this?
Also, what is faster? A P4 3,4 HT or a centrino 1,8 PM? Does the P4 will lag because of the heat?
What should I watch if I want to buy RAM later?
Should I only buy 256 with my laptop them upgrade by myself?
Does all the RAM (coimpagnies)are compatible?
If I buy a 64 bits pross with a laptop with 1 GB RAM, and a 60 GB HD 7200, will it still be good uin 2-3 years?
Also, i've looked for some 64 bits pross, there is no laptop with a 64 bits pross that has a video card with 128 of memory... Do you kjnow some?
What does the heat from the P4 pross do to the laptop?

Thanks a lot,
Blacko

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

HI,

Can I change the video card of a laptop?

Thansk again,
Blacko

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

You have not been reading the other posts on this forum. Choosing your notebook video card and video memory is the most important aspect because you cannot easily upgrade the video card. It is soldered to the motherboard.

If you were an expert you could change it (as they do have to replace them if they go bad under warranty) but you would have to take the entire notebook apart and know how to solder, etc. Also, it is only $50 to go from 32mb Dedicated to 64mb Dedicated if ordering upfront custom so it is not worth it to get another later (will cost much more than $50).

Also, if you buy integrated graphics you couldn't even put in a dedicated video card as it would not fit in the case and the notebook bios would likely not support it.

So, choose the notebook that has the dedicated video RAM you are confortable with (get 64mb or 128mb) and then you can customize or upgrade later most of the other components (but choose the notebook processor wisely also as this is more of a hassle to upgrade as well).

Putting in new RAM is easy (just be grounded to a large metal object and have notebook unplugged and the battery removed when putting in the new module) and hard drive replacement is easy to do hardware wise but you have to know how to load the software (under the notebook).

Go to X1000forums.com and they have threads with photos that show how to remove the keyboard (to access parts underneath, replace the hard drive, etc if you are interested). And they have large discussions about swapping the old hard drive to new hard drive image usign Symantec Ghost, etc (you have to get an external enclosure for the 2nd hard drive to do this).

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

Hi,

Thanks for all your help...
I would like to get a 128 video card...
Also, what is :"hard drive replacement is easy to do hardware wise but you have to know how to load the software (under the notebook)."

Thanks,
Blacko

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

HI,

But if I don't need a long battery life, and I plan to buy a P4 pross, it would be better to biuy an amd 64 pross no? It would last longer...

Thanks again,
Blakco

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

I am saying the that hard drive is easy to replace physically (usually open a slot underneath the notebook with a screw and pop it out, change the notebook adaptor to the other hard drive, and pop it back in.

The complexity is either loading everything on the new hard drive from scratch (Windows XP and drivers are usually supplied from the manufacturer on CD's) or taking an image or 'ghost' of the old hard drive using Symantec Ghost --but this requires setting the up the 2nd hard drive in an external enclosure, writing from one hard drive to the other, and then swapping out the 2 (putting the new one into the notebook with the 'ghost' image.

If you insist on a 128mb dedicated video card look at the Acers that have it (Ferrari or Acer 2000 series) or the Dell 8600). Both of these are Intel Pentium M Centrino notebooks.

Or, if you want the maximum power and don't mind terrible battery life and heavy weight get a Pentium 4M (HP and Toshiba have large 17" Pentium 4M's but the battery life is under 2 hours and they weigh almost 10 pounds not including the A/C adaptor).

People who value gaming over all else (and don't want a desktop) are buying these 17" monsters.

For all around use (and wi-fi use inside and outside the house or dorm) however a 15.4" widescreen Centrino fits the bill (Acer Ferrari and 2025 and Dell 8600 fit this bill with the 128mb)

I have a Compaq X1000 series with the 15.4" widescreen that weighs 6.5 pounds and can easily be carried in a notebook backpack (Targus, etc). You can get 32mb or 64mb dedicated video with this but not 128mb.

For the 17" notebooks I have only seen satchel bags (not backpacks) as they are so wide.

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

Yes, an Athlon 64bit notebook is absolutely a better option for the future then an Intel Pentium 4M (for a notebook). It runs cooler, gives you the increased 64bit performance for current and mostly upcoming software (and Microsoft Longhorn), etc.

But I doubt you will find any Athlon 64 system with 128mb dedicated video.

The Compaq R3000Z or HPzv5000z (likely same machine -- just different case appearance) will fit your bill for the Athlon 64bit cpu and up to 64gb dedicated video.

You can use the student discount 6%, $100 custom order rebate, etc that is detailed at x1000forums.com. You can also order 256mb RAM, etc to cut costs.

You will have to research the E-machines or any other Athlon 64 notebook candidate yourself.

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

Thanks,

But before going around and lookinbg for a 64 pross with a 128 video card, i would like to know what does the heat from the P4 pross does on the laptop (the consequences)

Thanks,
Blacko

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

Also,

We have to multiply by what the 3000 amd pross ghz to get it equivalent to a P4?
What is the equyivalent of an amd pross 3700+ in a P4 pross?

Thanks,
Blacko

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

An Intel Pentium 4M notebook is heavier and thicker to accomodate the required larger heatsinks and ventilation requirements for the Pentium 4 cpu just as a desktop does. Therefore, the notebook will run fine but it will just run much hotter, be heavier, and use more battery power than a Pentium M cpu. But if you basically want the raw power of a desktop in a notebook and are willing to sacrifice much of the mobility, battery life, and size factors of a Centrino notebook (or to a lessor extent an Athlon 64 notebook) then get a Pentium 4M notebook .. but then this is a desktop replacement notebook not a true notebook for traveling around (or even carrying around campus, etc).

AMD Athlon chips generally have their chip named with their estimated equivalence to the Pentium 4 chip in their names (So an Athlon 3000 is equivalent to a 3.0 ghz Pentium 4. The actual running mhz of the Athlon chip is usually stated somewhere. This is a comparison by AMD Though not Intel.

The Pentium M cpus have a 1.5x to 2.0x performance ratio (use 1.5 to be conservative) versus the Pentium 4M (both cpus are Intel).

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Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

In reply to: Re: centrino / 64 bits / HT

As I already told you I don't think you are going to find an Athlon 64 notebook with a 128mb dedicated video card.

Post it here if you find it.

Sager and Alienware, etc have more options related to gaming but then they either cost more, have less certain support than the big companies, or both.

In that case, either order an Intel Pentium 4M system (there are many available with the ATI 9700 with the full blown desktop processor) or order the Pentium M notebooks that have the ATI 9700 option:

Dell 8600 (order custom)
Acer Ferrari or Acer 2025 (but can't custom order)
Sony has it on some models but Sony is nearly always the most pricey for what you get.

There are likely some other Pentium M Centrino models that have it as well if you search..........

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