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causes of theistic religion

by netsky / November 15, 2004 3:18 PM PST

netsky short-form- philosphy- the basis for the creation of theistic religions

-religions evolved for three basic reasons.

One reason is base: control of populations

Another reason: to give comfort and meaning to mystery of life and death experience.

Third reason: to instill morality into the bulk of mankind that cannot possess the natural gift of natural morality towards his brothers.

Define morality:

-to stomp your feet no further than where my toes begin.

-to do no active harms.

-to preserve lives.

Define "do no active harms"

-to err is human. To err is not immoral. To err for purpose is immoral

====comments, additions, rebuttals... entertained, entertaining===


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Conscience and Consciousness
by Chorus-Line A1-QMS / November 15, 2004 5:32 PM PST

====comments, additions, rebuttals... entertained, entertaining===


You said, "Causes", I would say, "Reasons", and I prefer comments than the other options?

If you ask people why they believe in their religion, you would probably hear all kinds of testimony. Ask them again, they probably say, "Just because" or "I don't know". The "I DON'T KNOW WHY" is perhaps the scariest of all responses.

In my opinion, one cannot define their morals if they have no set of beliefs to begin with. (Religious, no religion or other philosophical related convictions). Why do people cling to various kinds of religion or philosophical beliefs?

It is a matter Conscience and Consciousness that determines our values to satisfy our needs (reasons). Our conscience is the highest of all reasoning authority, our keeper of morals and ethics that monitors our relationship to our actions and choices. While our consciousness (awareness - education and knowledge) is the program, we use to train our conscience.

So basically, all these beliefs system are merely TOOLS. If you do not know how to apply the proper tool where it is appropriately required, then the operation is unsuccessful. Oh! I would also say, don't forget to calibrate your tools in order to determine just about the right calculations to BALANCE OUT.

Not going to debate. Happy Done this too many times.

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My take but (but not the whole of it)
by Steven Haninger / November 15, 2004 8:26 PM PST

Some say God/religion are a chicken/egg dilemma. I will add this but will not say it's my total belief or is it truth.

Q=Why would man invent God? A=fear. Q=What is to fear? A=The possible finality of death. Q=Why is that to fear? A=I do not know why but I fear death. Q=What is the best thing a belief in God could give us? A=That God is good and can give us hope for eternal life. Q=Then, what would God want from us in return? A=That, for one thing, we are also "good" and want His gifts? Q=But I already want to be good....with or without a belief in God. Why should I believe? A=Maybe God is already helping you to achieve eternal life.

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as always, you add much good to any topic
by netsky / November 15, 2004 9:10 PM PST

yes, it all fits into me as you wrote it perfectly but a bit different in form.

I put it dry to make it simple, short for once. the most undeterminable question? would that be the chicken/egg aspect?

Dunno unless my dog can tell me about what god means to him. And that he cannot conceive of god, means only that god-systems nor atheisms prove or disprove there is a God.

I do not deny existance of God, but only try to demonstrate why He came to be thought of at all.

I happen to -think- there is no God per se, but that is a shallow and selfish assertion if it were made by me. No more valid or valuable than my wishing, say for SP to have been convicted.

Actually, the two thoughts sort of juxtapose nicely in my pea head: WHY should i project belief OR non belief, beyond the merest of casual references to mixed company?

So really, i do not because i know nothing for certain, except that Man is a great rationalizer and will manufacture to no end things to use for his various conveniences. God as orgainized by the world's theistic religions, may be one such "creation of man" to give man something more tangible to worship than merely the vastness of unknowable, impersonal star fields or bunnies hopping through the grass.

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About your dog and other animals
by Steven Haninger / November 16, 2004 5:43 AM PST

I suppose it is impossible to know this. Is man the only animal that has any real idea what death is....and knows enough to fear it? Can your dog fear death? We hear plenty of stories of animals "mourning" in various ways when their mates, pack mates, masters, etc. are found dead or disappear from their lives. But, do they really understand that it is going to happen to them also?

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You omitted a possible explanation ...
by Bill Osler / November 15, 2004 8:47 PM PST

IMO, you omitted THE explanation.

What if one of these religions is more-or-less correct in its description of a real God? In that case, "man" did not "invent" religion and religion did not come into existence by "evolution".

Proving the existence of God is not possible, at least not within a legal/scientific framework. That is hardly the same as saying God does not exist. If God does exist then it is reasonable to conclude that we can make statements about God that are at least approximately correct. From there it is not much of a leap to the notion that God would have guided the development of a religion that conforms to reality.

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A good point- let others comment- it's out of my depth.
by netsky / November 15, 2004 9:28 PM PST

water deeper than six inches..

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If Washington Should Come To Life
by netsky / November 16, 2004 3:30 AM PST

from memory, edison cylinder record, 1906

If Washington should come to life
And see how matters stand
A smile from George's lips
Would surely fall.

Instead of all the wasted fields
And planed of barren land
He'd find the Greatest Country
Of them All.

I wonder what he'd think of Teddy Rose-velt?
I wonder how'e'd like Political Machines?
I wonder if he'd try..
To -never- tell a lie..
If Washington should come to life to-day.

+there is reason why i put this here and now. wait+

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Woefully short on the possibilities. It is, of course,
by Kiddpeat / November 16, 2004 4:56 AM PST

possible that theistic religion was initiated by Ho Theos. It could be that I AM called Abram to obedience so that many people would know HIM. It could be that Logos came among us, and revealed that He is I AM just before He died for our sins. It could be that the King of Kings rose from the dead, and we now worship HIM.

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Re: causes of theistic religion
by Dan McC / November 16, 2004 5:28 AM PST

Taking the rest of human creation as a guide, chances are pretty good that some guy thought up religion as a way to get girls or money or both.


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Here's another way to look at religion
by SteveGargini / November 16, 2004 6:44 AM PST

But not in a religious text if you know what I mean.

I get this letter sent to me from people who have dedicated their life to searching out ghosts.

Those who do not believe in life after death will be in for a rude awakening when they pass beyond the grave. Look around you and you will see people in all stages of life. Some will be young and death is the last thing on their mind, others will have one foot in the grave and one foot on this side of life. They may have worries about life after death. Some may be looking forward to the next life. When they hear about a ghost or a haunting, they simply discount it as hogwash. For them, ghosts are not a part of the reality of life. Yet, we suggest that ghosts are the evidence of life beyond the grave. Ghosts are the real world of the dead, not some theory about life where we play harps for eternity, but the real world where once we are on the other side, our hang-ups will still remain with us.

This is the life to get rid of our hang-ups. This is the time to let go of our bitterness and anger about past events or family issues. Life is too short to hold onto the weight of negative baggage. When we say let go, we are simply suggesting that we release the psychological and emotional anchors we hold onto so that we are free from those burdens. This does not mean we allow ourselves to be placed back into those positions that caused us such anguish, but we can learn from negative experiences while letting them go. If we have a toxic parent who is nothing but poison, let go of the anger and move on with life, but do not go back to that parent again. Forgive them, but avoid the venom so they cannot poison you again.

The whole letter

The above is just a part of it, somethings I agree with, but not all.

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Intersting stuff, here...
by Dragon / November 16, 2004 7:27 AM PST
D?Aquili and Laughlin argue that we exhibit an automatic drive to find out why things occur in our environment. This "cognitive imperative" arises from the interaction in the brain of the left frontal lobe and the left orientation area,21 and forces us to look for causes in any chain of events or "strips of reality." It is a basic human drive that has served brilliantly to help us to understand and adapt to a wide variety of changing environments and situations. The difficulty is that human beings experience events for which no immediate cause may be apparent: sudden illnesses, storms, mysterious coincidences and the like. When such things occur that are not easily fit into our present model of reality, "the machinery of the brain is not turned off. It still automatically constructs models of reality out of juxtaposed material drawn from the various sensory memory banks."22 Hence the brain is forced to invent causes beyond those that are immediately apparent: gods, spirits, and eventually entire myths. This is an automatic process that is hardwired into our brains. Even those who do not believe in supernatural beings as real causes for unexplained phenomena find them cropping up regularly in dreams and fantasy life.

Also, the amygdala may play a part. Wonder if differences in this part of the brain may be part of the equation? What if theres a difference between the balance beween the "...two mutually inhibitory subsystems..." mentioned below, which plays a part in whether or not we are 'believers'?

Within the brain, the autonomic nervous system regulates and adjusts baseline body function and responds to external stimuli. It consists of two mutually inhibitory subsystems: the sympathetic or arousal system and the parasympathetic or quiescent system. The arousal system is the source of our fight or flight response, and is connected to the adrenal glands, the amygdala, and reaches into our left cerebral hemisphere. It is sometimes called the "ergotropic" system because it releases energy in the body to react to the environment. The parasympathetic or quiescent system (sometimes called the "trophotropic" system), on the other hand, conserves energy, promotes relaxation and sleep, and maintains basic body function and growth. It includes the endocrine glands, parts of the hypothalamus and the thalamus, and reaches into the right cerebral hemisphere. Although this material is highly complicated, the most important relationships to keep in mind here is that the dominant (analytical) mind is connected to the arousal system and involves the amygdala, and the non-dominant (holistic) mind is connected with the quiescent system and involves the hypothalamus and hippocampus.28
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