Captain Trips and Homeland Security

"expose" this problem. Much like the "Shoe Bomber" incident, and it's immense overreaction, I can't wait to see how we overreact to this.

... for years. Considering the dim group we are, I doubt this would be a revelation to Al Qaeda types. Aside from that tid bit, I have seen several movies and TV shows that already used this plot.

Aside from the political ramifications, let us think about how rapidly a virulent strain of Bird flu could sweep across the globe because of a yahoo like this fellow. The Flu epidemic of 1918 occurred in part, because of the world troop mobilization of WWI. I'm sure that modern business traffic accounts for more people moving across the globe in a day than were moved in a week back then. All it takes is one rich maroon (like this guy) who thinks THEY are above rules and regulations to spread the next plague.

As for the lax border security? I suspect the guards were too busy looking for Latino types who could be terrorist sleepers. They should be looking for the blond/blue eyed German with the slight Chechnya n accent... or they could always just check for the fellow's name instead. It's not like this guy was traveling under a false passport. And isn't that the whole point? The guy's name was on a list and we still missed him!

with who-knows-what diseases.

of italy to fly to zurich to cross to vienna to cross to budapest to fly to bermuda to ......

that is what i call "rich" globe hopping...


.,

you don't have to be "rich" to cross borders and carry infectious diseases from place to place. You can be poor or middle class or whatever.

So being "rich" has nothing to do with it. "All it takes is one rich maroon (like this guy) who thinks THEY are above rules and regulations to spread the next plague."

He is listed as a personal injury lawyer. I have heard (but not watched) excerpts from his public interviews where he tearfully (crocodile tears in my opinion) states he is sorry for the distress he may have caused and won't blame anyone for not forgiving him.

Since he is a personal injury lawyer I suspect he cries over the fact that he can't sue himself for liability and endangerment but again that is just my own opinion.

As for poor, illegal immigrants sneaking over the border being as great a biological threat as this guy was? I don't see it as being as severe a threat simply because of the greater amount of people an international traveler comes into contact with. This fellow came into contact with literally thousands of possible disease victims in a matter of days. Just think about this... what if this disease had been highly contagious and had a very short incubation period before new victims became contagious as well? How many folk could he have exposed at not one but 2 international airports within a 24 hour period? How many of those folks would then fly off to other destinations?

I'm not downplaying the fact that disease can spread from any source... but the mobility wealth gives people... the fact that they can be world travelers on a frequent basis... makes them a serious threat when discussing contagious diseases. BTW, let us not forget frequent business travelers as well. In short, poor people make for less of a threat of spreading a disease because they don't associate with as large a cross section of people. I would expect poor folk to have concentrated and somewhat self contained outbreaks of disease. As an example look at the small family groups that have been wiped out by outbreaks of bird flu in east asia. If they were world travelers they could have easily spread the disease and caused larger outbreaks. As another example, look at the limited outbreaks of hemorrhagic fever such as Ebola in Africa... now think about what might happen if a fellow like Mr. Speaker had been a carrier and traveled the way he did. Do you follow my logic?

grim

TB carriers crossing the border than rich ones.

in many cases no diagnoses until late stages if at all. And they probably come in contact with as many, if not more people in the course of a day than Speaker did. Not to mention many illegals work in the food supply chain. Clearly a greater danger than Speaker was.

I think it was just a silly, thoughtless remark

you're busted.

Don't have to prove anything. THOUSANDS of illegals all around the country, compared to one guy. 'Nuff said.

When you can't back up your comment you go on the attack.

One versus one, Ed. One guy on an international flight versus one guy walking cross the Rio Grande. Who come into more contact with other folks in a 24 hour period? You knew the answer so you tried to change the rules of the game instead of eating humble pie.

Take your mental gymnastics someplace else Ed. You ran your underwear up the flag pole and no one saluted.

One guy is in a few airports and airplanes over what, three or four days...versus let's say just ONE illegal with a communicable disease, undiagnosed, for days, weeks, months going to the supermarket, traveling on buses, working in the fields or in a restaurant. Living in a small flat with several other illegals, poor sanitation, no medical care, etc.

Which is the bigger threat? Come on.

Where did our RICH S.O.B. get his infection? From other rich folks?

The only difference his social status makes is that he was more quickly diagnosed and tracked.

You keep piling up "what ifs" on top of "what ifs".

I've been very clear from the start... and consistent as well when I replied to your comment...

"And they probably come in contact with as many, if not more people in the course of a day than Speaker did."

Now you wriggle to change the time frame into "days, weeks, months". No Ed... the time frame is 24 hours.

Aside from that raising the issue of where the rich guy got infected is non applicable as well.

What I asked, and I quote, was "How many folk could he have exposed at not one but 2 international airports within a 24 hour period? How many of those folks would then fly off to other destinations?"


Take your misleading and inflammatory (and somewhat hysterical) suggestions of my prejudice against the rich out of the equation. Take your scenario of the illegal worker spitting on everyone's Big Mac at the busiest McDonald's in the USA out of the equation. Take all the other possibilities away and justify your statement that an illegal worker hiding in the US could possibly be more of a contagion risk in 24 hours than a man traveling internationally and passing through at least 2 international airports.


As an aside... I'm disappointed no one got my Stephen King reference from the original post that started the thread.

It is ridiculous. It in no way reflects the real world.

Fine... I'm bored.


Take the last comment.

your "prove it" does not reflect what I was saying. It is misdirection. It has zero to do with the subject at hand.

You do realize that this story unfolded over the course of several days and much of the time was spent sitting in airliners with a couple hundred people? The number of people considered to have actually been put at risk is relatively small. The number of miles flown is irrelevant.

My post was about MANY illegals who are not diagnosed but may have something deadly. Where exactly do you think these diseases originate? In the mansions of the rich? Just wait until there is an outbreak of plague in the barrio.

"I'm bored" is nothing more than a cop out.

I asked a question and you failed to answer it. Simple as that.

working in the food industry or cleaning motel rooms or driving taxis or buses or subways?

All these in heavily tourist towns like NYC or Las Vegas or Orlando? Heard one woman saying she is afraid to eat anything in Las Vegas. Seems like these could touch and infect more people than one guy on two planes.

Diana

than you'd like.

No, I'm not gonna play your phoney game. Your straw man can burn as far as I'm concerned.

which is kind of the point, isn't it?

Here we are, worried about this one jerk, who is already diagnosed and being tracked, yet there are potentially thousands that we have no idea about, and who we can't know about until there is already a major problem.

But let's not think about that, by all means. Not when there are rich yuppies about.

Look, you made a ridiculous assertion that an illegal immigrant comes into contact with a greater number of people that he could spread a contagion to... than a man traveling from one continent to another on an international flight in a twenty four hour period.

I don't blame you for backing off of that statement. As for phony games? Quit starting them and you won't be forced to quit playing them.


BTW... saying I'm bored is not a cop out. Your insistence on tap dancing around the fact that you purposefully antagonize folks here on SE is a bore. You and I are not stupid. We share different opinions, yes... but neither of us are dumb. When you act this way it bores me. Why do you find that hard to comprehend?

I did NOT make the assertion that ONE illegal alien comes in contact with more people than your yuppie. Not that it's impossible. Learn to frickin' read: And they probably come in contact with as many, if not more people in the course of a day than Speaker did.

The whole entire point is that there are THOUSANDS coming across every day that we know NOTHING about, medically.

See also: Lots of them crossing the southern border...

and...THOUSANDS of illegals all around the country, compared to one guy. 'Nuff said.

Got it?

... which is that one of my original points raised by my tag-line about HOMELAND SECURITY... is the utter failure of our government to address border security to the point where, after billions of dollars were spent on homeland security... we can't even stop a guy from entering the country whose name is on a stop and detain list!!!

Now... you Ed... are trying to turn this into a class warfare issue characterizing me as prejudiced against the wealthy. Never mind the fact that Mr. Speaker is wealthy and that was who I was talking about... you want to say that thousands of illegal immigrants represent a greater health hazard. You love these hot button topics because they give you fuel to rant on and listen to yourself. If you only thought about it though... it is the populations outside of our country, that cultivate and harvest and pack the produce we enjoy in our grocery stores, that are the real health hazard. Think (for once) about the salmonella outbreaks that killed or sickened hundreds at Chi-Chi's restaurants across the nation. The foreign imported green onions that were linked to the illness had nothing to do with your illegal imigrant. No, you overlook the fact that the illegal immigrants you are fixated on, start getting health care when they reach mainstream american cities. Remember that is one of the complaints about illegal immigrants? That we pay for their health care?

No Ed... I was talking about a single man exposing as many people as possible... but you knew that. Now your last post was half way sensible. Too bad you were too busy baiting me all day to say "let us be concerned about other sources of contagion". Nope... you were too busy trying to say that an immigrant could expose more people over months than one privileged international traveler who didn't want to be inconvenienced and change his wedding plans. The same guy who strangely enough, has a recording of a doctor saying it was OK to travel. The same guy who then publicly states he knew he was so sick that his only hope to live was to get treatment in Denver. That statement sounds like he knew what he was doing so how can he then claim ignorance about his actions when it comes to the return trip?

No Ed... just like Mr. Speaker... you have known all along what I was asking and opining about. What is obvious is that you made a silly remark and then spent all day back peddling away from it. If your real concern truly is all the phantom undiagnosed sick illegal immigrants that are out there then I would ask you one simple question. Why should we even have to worry about sick illegals slipping into our country almost 6 years after 9/11? Seems to me that those holes should have been sealed up as soon as 4000 americans were killed on US soil. Of course that leads back to the little fact that we spent less than 2 minutes checking a rich white guy at the border who was making an indirect entry into the US for no apparent reason, after traveling to Europe and back... WHOES FREAKING NAME WAS ON A STOP AND DETAIN LIST!

Let's see, we have our phantom threat of sick illegal aliens or a demonstrably real threat of some rich white guy who didn't think he should play by the rules. Yeah, lets talk about the immigrants and give the lawyer a pass.

total BS.

First of all, it was not I, but YOU who made it into a class warfare issue with your petty bigotry. I didn't make a careless remark; you did. And I did not try to backpedal; you did.

The POINT is, his being rich is irrelevant.

Second, I NEVER in any way gave the rich white lawyer a pass. That is just a complete fabrication. All I did was try to point out that it is not the rich who pose the greatest danger. We are not under attack by phantom yuppies.

I suggest you read and think before accusing. But why bother? You won't.

plain and simple:

All it takes is one rich maroon (like this guy) who thinks THEY are above rules and regulations to spread the next plague.

It could NEVER be that a poor or middle-class person could spread the next plague. Illegal immigrants are very observant of the rules and regulations.

Not that that statement of yours is only tangentially related to Mr. Speaker. It regards ALL rich travelers as potential plague carriers.

That is entirely irrelevant.

No, I do not follow your logic. It smacks of prejudice to me.