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General discussion

Canon XTi vs Sony A100: Image Stablization

May 22, 2007 5:00AM PDT

Right, so Canon IS is built into the lenses and the kit lens doesn't come with it. At the moment I only have enough for either the XTi with the kit lens or the Sony with it's kit lens. The Sony is cheaper, it has image stabilization built in, it comes with a slightly better lens. The XTi has less noise at higher ISO and slightly better image quality.

The question I have is: will all my shots be shaky with the Canon, or is it worth getting the Canon to build a collection of lenses that I can use with other bodies, should I upgrade?

The ergonomics are a bit of a wash: I like the Sony's grip better and it seems to have a magnesium piece surrounding the lens mount, but the Canon has a better shutter release and the black on white menu seems like it would show up better in the sun.

I'm interested primarily in "artistic" shooting... like mucking with saturation, shooting with a wide open aperture, using gelatin filters, long exposure. But shoot different things with this approach. The lens choice on the Canon is what has me leaning towards it: with 20 years of lenses to chose from it seems like I have more options.

As an aside, anyone use the Zenit Fisheye for the Canon? I hear good things and it's a bargain...

Discussion is locked

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Oh yeah...
May 22, 2007 5:24AM PDT

Maybe I should also be looking at Nikons... gah too many choices!

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Canon/Sony/Nikon... /Pentax?
May 22, 2007 7:50PM PDT

The in-camera stabilization is a GOOD reason to pick the Sony A100 over the Canon XTi. Canon makes stabilized lenses, but these are more expensive than non-stabilized versions, and in the long run, if you plan on buying several lenses, that will really pay off. Plus the Sony is compatible with many older but good Minolta lenses. The Canon wins out in high-ISO noise, that's a consideration. If you want to capture a lot of low-light action, you'll want either high-ISO proficiency or a fast (large aperture) lens, or both.

The Pentax K10D is another option, loaded with features, and generally very good - it also suffers a little at high ISOs, where some "banding" type noise can occur. But this camera also offers built-in stabilization, and a wide range of compatible Pentax film and digital lenses.

Then there's Nikon, namely the basic model D40 and the advanced D80, which is comparable to the XTi and the K10D. Nikon produces great ergonomics, excellent photo quality (the D80 is known to lose a little detail at ISO 1600, because it applies in-camera noise reduction, but will therefore also offer better out-of-camera grain/noise control. Although post-processing noise reduction will probably offer somewhat better results, a good noise reduction program might be costly), and great flash availability and control. Neither the D40 nor the D80 offer in-cam stabilization, it again being built into the lenses (termed 'VR' in Nikon's lens system). The D80 is about the cost of the K10D. The D40 has one major downside: no in-camera focus motor means only a limited, often expensive, selection of lenses will auto-focus. There are a few inexpensive options, especially if consumer zoom is on your agenda, and if you don't plan on a large collection of lenses, the D40 is a super choice for straight-up image quality for the cost.

There's a quick going-over of the major choices in the range. There are others, like the Olympus EVOLT E-500, also the Pentax K100D, which might be better compared to the D40, being in that price-range.

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Nikon FTW?
May 23, 2007 9:19AM PDT

Alright... based on advice from co-workers, a professional photographer, and reviews, this is what I've heard:

1) Canon or Nikon should be the top choice.
2) Buy a cheap one to start with and build up a collection of lenses.
3) Megapixels are a bit of a myth at this level.
4) Dust can be fixed just as well with a bulb blower... all the pro-level cameras (Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II, Nikon D2X, Hasselbad) do not have any sort of "sensor cleaner". The consensus amongst my pro friends (one works for the paper/AP, the other is an artist) is that the "dust removal" feature is a consumer gimmick.

I've been using a Powershot A95 and a Holga for years... so yes, I have a tripod. But I do a good bit of "handheld" shots (especially when I'm just riding the train around town and poking around). Everyone I talked to told me that lens stabilization is superior and they clued me in on a few 250-500 lenses from Nikon and Canon that provide stablization.

That said, I'm leaning one of two routes: get the Rebel XT and a Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM (for $420 from amazon) or the Nikon D40 and the Nikon 55-200mm f/4-5.6G ED IF AF-S DX VR Zoom Nikkor Lens($240 at amazon). Both lenses are way better than the kit lenses and have stabilization built in.

I tried out both in the store and I have to say, that despite the lower MP rating (not really a big deal) and fewer AF focus points, the Nikon really feels better in hand. I tried a D200 and a D80 as well and I kind of prefer the Nikon ergonomics to the Canon.

Any opinions on those lenses? I'll also be picking up a full manual fisheye (the Zenitar comes in both Canon EOS and Nikon mounts). As for the AF motor argument... I see plenty of AFS lenses I'd like in decent price ranges, plus Canon doesn't even bother with a built in AF-motor, so that's not really a big issue on the D40.

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kit lenses
May 23, 2007 9:39AM PDT

Keep in mind that, should you buy a model with kit lens, the Nikon D40's kit lens is much better than the Canon XT/XTi series kit lens. I would buy the Nikon's body with kit lens just for the wide shooting, as that 18mm allows for some excellent landscape shots.

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D40!
May 23, 2007 9:44AM PDT

Yeah, I kind of like the D40 better... not just for price, it really seems a little smoother than the XT/XTi (which are both great cameras).

That and the D80 seems to be a really sweet body... I could see myself upgrading in a year or so. Which is part of my concern: going gaga over my first dSLR (i.e. spending too much) instead of investing in lenses and adopting a "system" (Canon, Nikon, etc).

More glowing praise for the D40...

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shooting wide open aperture with long exposure
May 22, 2007 8:35PM PDT

You will need a tripod. Sony IS gives you less than 3 f stop IS stabilization, whereas Canon IS lens can give about 3-4 stop assistance (the newest 70-200 mm f/4L IS has state-of-the-art 4 stop image stabilization). But if you have long exposure, then you will still likely have blurring even with IS. Canon IS lens costs about several hundred dollars more than its non-IS versions. Some of the premium Sony lenses, the G series and those made by Carl Zeiss, cost more than the Canon or Nikon equivalent lenses with IS.
The Olympus has live view LCD, which may help you see your composition and fine tune the effect you want a little bit more easily than using the viewfinder. The live view LCD let you take pictures using the LCD screen, just like how you use the PS cameras. The new E-410 and upcoming E-510 both have live view LCDs at more affordable price than the E-330.
You should talk to other people who do your kind of artistic photos, and find out what you really need.

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Forgot to mention
May 22, 2007 8:42PM PDT

The new Olympus E510 has IS built into the camera body, just like the Sony and Pentax, and the E510 also has live view LCD. The E-510 is expected to be sold for $800 body only. The E-510 is coming soon. The Olympus E-410 is $100 cheaper, without IS.

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Lens stabilization is also called optical stabilization. It
May 22, 2007 10:58PM PDT

is superior to in-camera (electronic) stabilization, and will yield a better image (photograph). Note that Nikon also uses optical stabilization.

It sounds like your preferred photography will find stabilization irrelevant. You will want the camera on a tripod for your shots. Canon will provide you with a vastly superior set of lenses, and a vastly superior upgrade path for your photography. Canon is the only vendor which offers full frame cameras.

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Zenit Fisheye lens
May 23, 2007 9:13AM PDT

I haven't used it. But this is a user review:
http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/reviews/fisheye.html

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/reviews/wide-angle-lenses-2.html

If you plan for using this type of lens, probably stick with the more traditional D-SLR like Canon or Nikon which have available adaptors for this fisheye lens. I'm not sure whether it can be mounted on Sony. Olympus has a different 4/3 system and may not be compatible.

As mentioned above, image stabilization is not good enough for long exposures most of the time. You will need a sturdy tripod and a remote or shutter release cable to minimize camera movement.

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Tough call
May 23, 2007 9:34AM PDT

Seems like the Zenit is better built and more usable... but that with the APS-C reduction it might get cropped out more. The Peleg has a cool effect, but it sounds like a nightmare to deal with the thing!

Maybe I should check flickr...