Canon vs. Nikon

I'm not being critical of anyone in particular, but... I get tired of hearing the "well, I'm a little biased in favor of Canon, but...".

Any of the cameras mentioned will be great. Handle them all in store (check out Best Buy or somewhere similar). Many, myself included, feel that the XTi is a little too small, and a bit plasticky. The Nikon D80 has a better feel, and feel is, well, somewhat important - not all-important, surely, since you will adapt to any camera, but a more natural handling camera will prove more sure in the hand, and pull in a few shots that wouldn't have been handled so well otherwise. Again, only somewhat important.

Nikon has a better menu system, and yes, a better flash system. The XTi has better high ISO in terms of detail, but the Nikon, because it uses noise suppression processing after the shot is taken, will look cleaner out of camera, at the cost of some detail loss when viewed at full size.

There is no "better" or "worse", only different approaches to making a darn fine camera, and both of these companies succeed. Research the individual aspects of each (this will give you some advance knowledge of the camera you will buy, as well, so it's valuable), and pick your favorite, 'tis that simple.

Yes, there are many people who ask the same question over and over again in forums like this and other ones. And of course, the replies are somewhat the same. For people who have been visiting and throwing out advice for some time in the same forum, the questions and answers may seem repititive and tiring.
But the person who asks the question is asking it the first time, and is genuinely needing some opinion. I have taught a number of bright students in the past (including Stanford and Harvard graduates), and believe me, they all ask similar questions no matter how bright they are. And they should, because those are good questions that perplexed the mind of many others. And I patiently give them the same answer with the same enthusiasm as if this is the first time I answer the question. Every person's opinion is biased, including yours. We all give our perspective because that is our experience. The inquirer will simulate these information and make his or her own decision.
The bottom line is you don't need a fancy camera to take breathtaking photos. Alex Majoli has been using Olympus PS camera to take professional photos that get published and get him awards. The master worries about the work, and the apprentice worries about the tools.

It is a good thing that Canon users are biased towards Canon, and Nikon users are biased towards Nikon. That means they are great products. Here is an interesting link to a famous photojournalist who uses PS cameras to make his masterpieces:

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6468-7844

Facts You Might Already Know

D80 Pluses:
-Nikkor lenses are best in the industry
-SD cards are slightly smaller (when you go hiking in the high peaks, every ounce counts...)

Canon Pluses:
-Self-cleaning sensor
-Canon lenses auto-focus on even their entry-level DSLR's, unlike Nikkon's D40

For what it's worth, Canon covered my S80 P&S on a minor issue a month beyond warranty expiration. As far as P&S's go, it'd be a clear choice- Canon, hands down. Nikon's Coolpix series has done dumb things like eliminate the viewfinder (not the only dumb thing). No viewfinder = more blur cuz you can't hold it against your forehead to hold it steady.

When I've shopped for cameras in the past, I compared features for months, both online and in the stores hands on. I nearly always end up with Canon. My first was bought in the 1970's, a Canon EF with 1.2 lens; stolen in a burglary in 1980, I replaced it with a Canon A1 and 1.2 lens. It is still my only SLR. My digital is a Canon S50, and I have 3 Canon printers. Each time I need something new, I carefully shop it, and 7 times out of 10 I go Canon, and for various reasons.

Only twice in 30 years has any of my Canon products needed service, and those were both my fault. The one complaint I have with the company is their owners manuals are consistently user-unfriendly, but then my last Sony camcorder and Panasonic DVR manuals are difficult to interpret also. If I knew, for instance, that a large part of the manual for one of my printers was on the included discs, I would have factored that into my decision and come up with a different unit; it's been a real pain to search for answers in user's guides that are only computer accessable. Paper manuals are quicker to search and don't require scrolling.

I can't speak to Nikon because I've never owned one. A lot of professionals use Nikon. Plenty use Canon cameras. I can only say that in the last 30 some years, for reasons germaine to each occasion, I've always chosen Canon cameras and never Nikon.

(Hopeitworkx: SD cards are smaller and a better choice for weight-smart hikers? What are you talking about, Dude? Get real! A micro-ounce ain't gonna make no never mind. But SD cards are too small for a man's fingers - I disdain them. Unfortunately they are becoming predominant, and I will stick with my camera that uses Compact Flash cards I can get a grip on).

Haf Canadian,

Try a few days of backpacking over mountainous terrain, like you have in the Canadian Rockies, or in the Adirondacks if you're on the Eastern side, then you'll see what I'm talking about.

Or maybe you won't- either way, I'm not going to let someone disagreeing with me bring me to name-calling.

Done my share of packing 50 lbs aroung the Cascades. Reckon I'll have to pluck a couple hairs off my head to make room for the extra weight of my Compact Flash card.

I can?t imagine the weight of a flash card ever making much difference to me, but there is one other consideration that is very important ? durability! Not so much the durability of the card itself, but the pins that come in contact with them. I have had the Nikon D70 with compact flash and now own the Nikon D80 with SD card. I always worried about the Compact flash card bending the tiny pins inside the camera as I inserted it. If you look at the holes in the card you can imagine how tiny and fragile the pins must be. SD cards have a different setup that allows the cards to slide up against the pins. There are about 50 very small pins on Compact Flash and only 9 on SD cards. Maybe it?s just me, but I never worry about sliding in the SD variety because of this difference in design.

Because it's very strong along the lines of force that is applied to it. Much like a nail it bends only when the force is from the wrong direction.

The only failure I witnessed was some owner that stuck coins in there. You can only imagine why.

Bob

I agree: the card bay in the camera aligns the inbound/outbound card such that there is little if any chance of any side force bending pins on Compact Flash cards. I have little concern about that. Again, it is the larger size that to me makes Compact Flash easier handling, and therefore that much less likely to get lost, overlooked, or accidentally dropped into or onto some card-inhospitable place, like water, mud, or inaccessible crevice. Downsizing electronics is great, but there is a limit at which, unless you have small fingers, things become clumsy to use, and the technique known as "human engineering" (making things physically manageable considering human body mechanics) comes into critical play. A compromise point has been reached where smaller lady's hands or a teen's hands have no trouble with SD cards, but men's typical fingers find Compact Flash easier; given that neither gender would complain about the manageability of CF cards, I should think they would be the proper choice for cameras in a family. In that circumstance card size should therefore be a factor in buying any digital camera.

From what I've seen of tests which have been run, sensor cleaning technology is largely ineffective. I wouldn't choose the XTi for just this reason over any other camera.

My friend owns an XTi, and has almost as much problem with dust as he would with a non dust-reducing camera model. The fact is, you'll still have to clean it out once in a while, until they create some truly effective technology for sensor cleaning.

I wouldn't be able to comment on the effectiveness of the self-cleaning sensor, not even possessing a DSLR myself. I'm waiting until I outgrow all the capability of my Canon S80 P&S first. The concept makes sense to me- it vibrates the sensor every time the camera is turned on/off to "shake" off the dust. I can't see how it wouldn't reduce dust somewhat. But I'll defer my opinion to someone who already has one- any takers?

My concern would be as to the sensor life being affected by being shaken repeatedly over several years.

Is it possible to lets say compare the 700 is to the XTi? Only asking because I was looking at the 800is also but how does it compare. If you took the 700is and compared it to the xti using just pictures you had taken how would they compare or matchup?

I currently have a Canon G2+Flash and a SD550 point and shoot camera. Shopping for a DSLR will be a tuff choice for me. I did the research for months, narrow down to XTi & D80 and ended up with D80.
Everybody has different tasking, but this is my personal reasons:
D80 has bigger viewfinder: Remembers on these 2 DSLRs, you won?t be able to see ?live preview? on the 2.5?LCD before shooting, therefore, the viewfinder is what you will depend on.
XTi has dust reducer sensor: Good if you swap the lens regularly. If you?re planning to have only 1 zoom-lens (I do) like a kit lens or 18-200mm if you dare, you don't have to worry about dust sensor.
Flash and lighting: D80 has wireless transmitter signal (up to 30Ft) to SB800 or SB600 flash, a nice option for studio Portrait that I have to pay $200 extra for XTi
Multi Exposures: this is a fun option, I used it in the past with my 35mmSLR and I still love it. D80 has this feature.
XTi has smaller body: This is nice, D80 looks big, but once I saw 30D, I?m glad that D80 isnot a monster.
Made in Japan: Yes, on XTi. This is the downside for me for the D80. I found out most of the Nikon camera (incl. the D200) are Made in Thailand.
Top LCD information: This is a bonus of D80 if you?re not considered a Pro look.
Picture Quality: According to Dpreviews, I found XTi has slightly sharper in picture, but that?s with the cropped/enlarged image. After comparing sample pictures on both DSLRs. I see D80 isnot far behind.
Menu: D80 has more than XTi, more than I think.
That?s enough comparison for me to pick the D80. I decided paying an extra $$$ for the D80, I won?t regret it later.

How about posting a link to this lab test?

May be this Lab test link? Right here, at CNET itself...
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-11396_7-6654246-7.html?tag=btn

Anybody can implement high levels of noise reduction. The trick is to achieve a high ISO WITHOUT significant noise reduction. That's where Canon excels.

Noise reduction is a negative because it removes and/or blurs fine details in the image. That is not a desirable thing.