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CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS

Illinois Democratic Senator **** Durbin draws a comparison between American armed forces and Nazis, Stalin's murderers and Pol Pots butchers, and Democrats are silent. Then along comes Karl Rove. Now bear in mind here that Democrats probably hate Karl Rove more than any other living breathing human being. They believe Rove the man to be solely responsible for their electoral loss in 2000 and again in 2004. So Karl Rove speaks to the Conservative Party of New York and has something to say about how liberals reacted to 9/11. Rove said "Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 in the attacks and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers."

Oh my! Were the Democrats upset!

The same cast of characters that had nothing to say about Durbin's remarks sure had a lot to say about Karl Rove.

San Francisco's Nancy Pelosi, the House Minority Leader said that Republican charges that Democrats were undermining the war on terror with their criticism of administration policies amounted to an act of desperation.

Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid said that "Karl Rove should immediately and fully apologize for his remarks or he should resign, I hope the president will join me in repudiating these remarks."

Hillary had to weigh in of course: "I would hope that you and other members of the administration would immediately repudiate such an insulting comment from a high-ranking official in the president's inner circle."

Other Democrats called Rove's remarks "Vulgar and nauseating."

Bear in mind ... these are the same Democrats who had nothing to say about Durbin's comparison of American men and women in uniform to Nazis. But let someone say that liberals lack the will to fight to fight terrorism .. and all hell breaks loose.

By the way .. .Rove had it about right. And he wasn't through with his slam on the left. He also had something to say about **** Durbin. "Let me just put this in fairly simple terms: Al Jazeera now broadcasts the words of Senator Durbin to the Mideast, certainly putting our troops in greater danger. No more needs to be said about the motives of liberals."

Atta boy, Karl.

Rove also denounced Sen. **** Durbin's comments comparing interrogation at the Guantanamo Bay prison camp to the methods of Nazis and other repressive regimes. He said the statements have been broadcast throughout the Middle East, putting U.S. troops in greater danger. The Illinois Democrat has since apologized for the remarks. (not)

"No more needs to be said about the motives of liberals," Rove said.

http://boortz.com/nuze/


says it all dont it shame on you democrats

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Of course, Durbin's complaint was substantially accurate, as

In reply to: CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS

the FBI report bears out, to say nothing of those from the Red Cross and Amnesty International. His problem was making the same sort of over-the-top comparison that Amnesty International did. Rove's remarks are complete revisionist history with no relationship to reality. For example, there was almost universal support for the invasion of Afghanistan (the exception largely being Christian pacifists), not only among Americans, but among the non-Arab international community. It was when the mission changed from preventing another 9/11 to getting revenge for Saddam trying to kill Bush's father that liberals jumped off the bandwagon -- and they've now been joined there by a msjority of the American population, and the overwhelming majority of the world's. And while Rove isn't apologizing, the White House is backing away -- this morning the "Communications Director" (whatever happened to "Press Secretary?") told Matt Lauer on Today that Rove's criticism wasn't aimed at liberals in general but at "liberal extremists" like Move-on.org.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Stop defending Durbin's statements

In reply to: Of course, Durbin's complaint was substantially accurate, as

and respond accurately to the posted link and story, DK.........or can't you admit that the Dems complaining about Rove's statement is hypocritical since they never complained over Durbin's far-fetched comparison statements?

TONI

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(NT) (NT) Bull, Dave on all counts

In reply to: Of course, Durbin's complaint was substantially accurate, as

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Only if we were running gas chambers like the Nazis....

In reply to: Of course, Durbin's complaint was substantially accurate, as

would Durbin's remarks be accurate. Are you really that uneducated about who and what the Nazis were?

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No, Clay, I'm not.

But one has to remember that the extent of the Nazis' evil and tactics evolved, partially because of what they could get away with. Earlier on, when they were a minority party running a coalition government, they had to be much more "gentle." And with the Soviets, their tactics "mellowed" with time -- the KGB under Andropov was not nearly so brutal as the NKVD under Stalin. Besides, I've already said that those comparisons are over the top. The problem is, folks on the right are using that inapt comparison to ignore the rest of Durbin's message -- that the way America is handling foreign prisoners in Iraq, Guantanamo, and Afghanistan is disgraceful, and not at all in keeping with what we preach to others about respect for human rights.

Durbin's message was 90% accurate -- the focus is on the 10%. Rove's message is 90% revisionist history, maybe 10% accurate (because maybe 10% of liberals opposed the Afghan war). To compare the two is therefore inappropriate.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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You're a disgrace to our troops

In reply to: No, Clay, I'm not.

Durbin's message was 90% accurate...
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Have you read the FBI report? OTOH...

In reply to: You're a disgrace to our troops

It detailed numerous types of degrading and abusive treatment not in keeping with civilized codes of conduct. The fact that the insurgents do much worse (as did the Nazis and Soviets) is no excuse for our side's actions. OTOH, we're speaking of a small minority of US troops here -- almost all "line" and support troops, and even most prison guards, are serving honorably and with distinction to serve their country, and they deserve praise for that. So to claim I don't support the troops is nonsense -- we've even contributed to "care boxes" for them. But one can't morally ignore wrong policies, and some wrong actions, just because it's our side that's responsible. That would make me as morally culpable for their actions as Rumsfeld and the abusive prison guards themselves.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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I doubt you've read the report ...

In reply to: Have you read the FBI report? OTOH...

...

For starters, it details some SPECIFIC treatments of a select FEW detainees that were most dangerous or "in the know" of active terror plots against Americans. None of it even comes close to true torture -- OK maybe the Christina Aguilera music, but ...

Anti-American is indeed a true term to describe you. At every turn you deride and denigrate those that allow you to safely pursue the American dream. Sickening Sad

Evie

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No, Evie.

In reply to: I doubt you've read the report ...

I'm very much pro-American. I strongly believe in freedom, democracy, and human rights, the principles on which America was founded, and which Bush claim were' fighting for. In the name of expediency, however, we contnually fail to live up to those ideals -- VietNam, Chile, El Salvador, Cuba, and now Iraq are all examples of this failure to a greater or lesser extent.

A country that's truly dedicatedto human rights, as we claim, should not be having to argue about whether our treatment of prisoners is actually torture, or merely abusive and degrading. Especially when we're engaged in a war where our leaders say once again (as in VietNam) that victory depends on being able to "win the hearts and minds" of the neutrals in the country that's the battleground. We may still win them -- but only because the suicide bombings targeting ordinary Iraqis are disgusting them even more than our own actions and attitudes.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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More crap

In reply to: No, Evie.

We've freed millions in Afghanistan and Iraq. The isolated incidents of abuse (that will occur in EVERY country) have been dealt with.

I have yet to see a pro-American post from you. Even when you have something positive to say you usually have to add in a "but" and it has gotten worse over the years.

Evie

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Of COURSE there's a BUT, Evie.

In reply to: More crap

If there weren't a BUT it would mean I thought we were perfect -- surely even you don't think that, do you? (And I don't mean that there are still too many liberals around...)

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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no

In reply to: Of COURSE there's a BUT, Evie.

not perfect but your not the answer

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wish we good have your kind

In reply to: No, Evie.

arrested for sedition, you sure dont support your country that gives you the right to talk crap

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How 'big' of you

In reply to: Have you read the FBI report? OTOH...

>>>>>almost all "line" and support troops, and even most prison guards, are serving honorably and with distinction to serve their country, and they deserve praise for that. So to claim I don't support the troops is nonsense -- we've even contributed to "care boxes" for them. But one can't morally ignore wrong policies, and some wrong actions, just because it's our side that's responsible.>>>>>>

That comment about the 'care boxes' contribution is like saying 'you even let a black family move down the street from you', DK.

The facts are, however, that you have NOT supported the troops in SE in any fashion at all.....you have deliberately made sure that every one of your posts about the military have been negative ones. I'm still waiting for you to post at least three news stories showing the GOOD our military, country, or this Administration has done, and you have either ignored me or you don't actually know how to use google effectively.

TONI

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Del's posted more than enough about the good we do

In reply to: How 'big' of you

for everyone, Toni. American troops have always been kind to the "locals" -- candy for the kids, helping out with rebuilding, etc. And yes, that helps win "hearts and minds." OTOH, when your enemy claims that you're warring on his religion, do you really think the various actions and comments that seem to fit in with that impression help us?

Human nature (and I'm certainly human) is to take the good for granted and focus on what needs correcting -- that's also the only way progress is made. Self-congratulations about what you're doing right while ignoring what you're doing wrong isn't constructive. Besides, the balance of opininion here seems to be "Everything's just peachy keen" with the war and the way it's being fought, so the opposite viewpoint is needed for balance. If for some reason I were forced to post on a site dominanted by "the US is the Great Satan" types, my overall tone about the US would be MUCH more positive (though one would still have to acknowledge we're not perfect) because that's what balance would require THERE. And now I have to get to work...

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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and JP and others have posted

In reply to: Del's posted more than enough about the good we do

more than enough about the flaws in our government and military, DK.....they don't need your help, but you give it gladly.

You're just so one-sided that you won't even make an attempt at finding anything good to say.....even going back to reference Vietnam forward to today's time in history, with never a word about all of the attacks the US has endured over the years at the hands of terrorists other than to smugly insinuate with your constant negativity that we've had it coming and deserved it all. And those attacks were long before Iraq and this Administration.

Go to work and do what you seem to do best....writing grants....and thinking about other ways to say the same things over and over and over.
Do you honestly believe we are warring on their religion, DK? A terrorist version of that religion that even THEY don't follow? Do you honestly believe that the only good thing the American troops are doing over there is handing out candy to the kids and 'helping' rebuild what their own terrorist leader deprived them of for years?

Human nature indeed focuses on what needs correcting....when you ARE human and possess humanitarian traits. Do you believe the terrorists have those qualities, DK? Are they looking for progress or are they attemping to stop it completely like they did before by keeping their people suppressed and under their control?

Terrorists give themselves self-congratulations every day as they kill more and more of their own innocents in order to continue to boost their own morale. Evidently THEY know how to get that job done and we should take lessons from them here in our own country regarding our own troops.

Do you EVEN READ your own words and comprehend what you say to the extent that what you say can be used on both sides of the fence without much trouble at all? NOBODY here on 'our' side of the fence has said that things are 'peachy keen......and I actually wish you COULD be forced to post on a site dominated by the "US is the Great Satan" so that we could visit the site and actually read SOMETHING you wrote that's in favor of your country for a change.

Your balancing act needs more practice.....lopsided wire-walkers tend to fall ungracefully......but at least YOU have a safety net from prosecution and/or death called US citizenship.

TONI

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I'm still waiting, I also am waiting

In reply to: How 'big' of you

Now will you answer a question for me?


Using the same criteria as you are applying to me when you want an example of Canada helping the US during a disaster.

Can you give me an example of the US ''helping'' Canada during a disaster?


I did my best, but i am weak, and after you asked Dave twice, to respond to your request for proof. I felt obligated ( since I at least attepmted to answer your questions) to ask you to respond to my question to you.

Even if you didn't agree with my answers I did give an answer.
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I named a number USA disasters

In reply to: I'm still waiting, I also am waiting

and you gave me two examples of Canadian 'help'. One was to have the planes diverted after 9-11 and one was for electrical help in Florida after perhaps one hurricane out of how many? Were both of those incidents due to your government's intervention or by an immediate response via a local power company and an FAA offer that had nothing to do with your leaders/government acting? So....name me a couple of Canadian disasters so I can research and reply.

TONI

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here's three

In reply to: I named a number USA disasters

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Re Hazel only

In reply to: here's three

It went through eastern US first, it hit little ole NC pretty damn hard too. This particular disaster left us pretty busy licking our own wounds, perhaps worse than Canada's problems. Surely you wouldn't suggest how much we helped then would be an indicator of how willing we are to help?

Perhaps not the best example choice, since it hit both countries pretty damn hard and both were busy picking up the pieces at home?

Canada Hazel
On Oct. 15, 1954, the most famous hurricane in Canadian history struck Southern Ontario. Hurricane Hazel pounded the city of Toronto with 110 km/hr winds and more than 200 millimetres of rain in less than 24 hours. Bridges and streets were washed out, homes and trailers were washed into Lake Ontario. Thousands were left homeless, and 81 were killed ? 35 of them on one street alone.


NC Hazel

The coastal region where Hazel made landfall was also battered by some of the most destructive winds in North Carolina's history. Estimates of 150-mph extremes were reported from several locations, including Holden Beach, Calabash, and Little River Inlet. Winds of 98 mph were measured in Wilmington and were estimated at 125 mph at Wrightsville Beach and 140 mph at Oak Island. As Hazel swept inland, its winds endured with freakish intensity. Grannis Airport in Fayetteville reported gusts of 110 mph, and estimates of 120 mph were made by observers in Goldsboro, Kinston, and Faison. At the Raleigh-Durham Airport, the wind-speed dial was watched closely during the storm, and gusts to 90 mph were recorded around 1:30 p.m. Most incredibly, wind gusts near 100 mph were reported from numerous locations in Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Delaware, New Jersey, and New York as Hazel curved a path through the Northeast on its way to Canada

Conversion
100 mph = 160.0 kmh

Damages and deathsHurricane Hazel--A Category Four Hurricane that came ashore in North Carolina in October, 1954, and then brought hurricane force winds as far inland as Canada. Passing 95 miles to the East of Charleston, South Carolina, Hazel made landfall very near the North Carolina and South Carolina border, and brought a record 18 foot storm surge at Calabash, North Carolina. Wind gusts of 150 mph were felt in Holden Beach, Calabash, and Little River Inlet 100 mph gusts were felt farther inland at Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Delaware, New Jersey, and New York. Hazel carved a path of destruction that left over 600 dead, and damages exceeded $350 million 1953 U.S. dollars.

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Lets visit how much

In reply to: I named a number USA disasters

world aid Canada gives compared to the USA!

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So

In reply to: Have you read the FBI report? OTOH...

OTOH, we're speaking of a small minority of US troops here

They're not the troops that will bear the brunt of the hostility fostered by Durbin's remarks. He has stirred up the hornets nest by feeding the likes of the Al Jazeera's so that they can antagonize the insurgents. American lives will be lost because of people like this and syou seem to condone it. Even if there was something for congress to investigate about Gitmo it is inappropriate to share that with the enemy when it will cause harm to americans. If anyone in this country were eligible for the draft I'd wish it were you.
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Wrong numbers

In reply to: No, Clay, I'm not.

Durbin was referring to a "report" (some e-mails actually) that was over two years old and described some things that happened that in no way approached Nazi or Gulag type behavior and which do not reflect the currebnt situation at all. So he was 0% accurate.

Rove was referring specifically to a petition distributed by Moveon.org and to some others and was 100% accurate.

You are 100% wrong.

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(NT) (NT) WOW :-(

In reply to: No, Clay, I'm not.

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why as others asked why you bash all time

In reply to: Of course, Durbin's complaint was substantially accurate, as

you agree with durbin?
you should walk in a soldiers shoes, but your not good enough to walk in them.

you disparge the us soldier, if we could i would love to see people like you who say your garbage shown the door.

why do you keep posting these attacks when its a tos, you should ban yourself

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(NT) (NT) Cuz he's zinger exempt....

In reply to: why as others asked why you bash all time

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(NT) (NT) and if he gets a tiff he pull it

In reply to: (NT) Cuz he's zinger exempt....

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No Mark.

In reply to: (NT) and if he gets a tiff he pull it

I only pull messages that are PERSONAL attacks -- and not all of them, by any means. The TOS and forum policies mandate discussion of ISSUES, not personalities. Unfortunately, many are no longer able to seperate the two, not just on the Forum, but in society as well Sad

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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bs and you know it

In reply to: No Mark.

remember you pulling posts with the words sub humans

we have sub humans here?

your a biased moderator

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(NT) (NT) Enough !

In reply to: why as others asked why you bash all time

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