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Can John Kerry Lead In Wartime?

by C1ay / March 20, 2004 10:49 AM PST
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Which came first................
by Del McMullen / March 20, 2004 11:32 AM PST
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I wonder if the guy that did that picture doesn't like Kerry?
by Bill Osler / March 20, 2004 12:04 PM PST

That is an amazing caricature. The creator even managed to put the American flag on the lapel upside down.

It's too bad that our political campaigns tend to revolve around slash-and-burn tactics like that.

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Maybe he got the idea ...
by Evie / March 21, 2004 10:31 PM PST
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Re:Maybe he got the idea ...
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / March 21, 2004 10:39 PM PST

Hi, Evie.

Apparently "Joe" doesn't know that flying the flag upside down is a signal of distress, and was a very common form of VietNam era protest by loyal, patriotic Americans VERY distressed at the immoral actions being done ostensibly in their name. I suspect it's still used by some of the more extreme anti-war demonstrators, but Kerry is definitely not in their number.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Apparently ...
by Evie / March 21, 2004 10:48 PM PST

... you can excuse anything. I don't think anyone that ever put a picture like that on a book bearing his name should ever be President of the US, and don't give me distress, that is no excuse to disrespect the flag of our country Sad

Curious, has Kerry ever come clean about the lies he told the Senate? I hear CSPAN will be airing the entire testimony. Should be an interesting education. Gotta thank Kerry for one thing, many like myself in my generation know little about the era. We now have cause to look a little into some of what is surfacing and it just isn't very pretty nor patriotic Dave.

Evie Happy

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Somewhat snobbish, Dave...
by J. Vega / March 22, 2004 1:35 AM PST

Dave, you said, "Apparently "Joe" doesn't know that flying the flag upside down is a signal of distress...". If he didn't, why would he have made a point on calling attention to it? I find your implication about Joe's knowledge to be somewhat snobbish.
Dave, don't you find it curious that that Kerry book is so hard to find? Trust me, the price it goes for on the collector book market is amazing. Isn't it a strange turn of events that a canidate for President has a book that he does not people reading? 180 out from John Kennedy's Profiles In Courage.
Here's a thought, Dave: What if somebody playing "political hardball" got a copy of it and started posting it on a web "throw away" site under a bogus site owner name, knowing full well that Kerry wants it suppressed. What would Kerry do? The last thing he would want to do is to make a "stink" demanding that it stop, as that would only call attention to that book's contents. Yes, Dave, I well relize that the publisher would be the one to raise legal Hades, but that would not only accomplish the same attention, but also force Kerry to comment publically on that book that he'd like to see vanish.
In this senario, obviously the publisher and Kerry would win, but it'd be like the DeCSS code that lets people copy DVDs, once it hit the net, copies of it would spread like a cockroach, and like the cockroach, would never be eradicated. This, Dave, is real "political hardball". Dave, it's only March, and the players on the field are not throwing hard pitches yet, but I think that I see such coming.

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Still find it amazing that you think aiding the enemy is patriotic...
by Edward ODaniel / March 22, 2004 4:10 AM PST

and that is EXACTLY what you demonstrators did.

McCain even stated many times how his captors paraded all the media coverage of the demonstrations and especially the VVAW demonstrations in front of the prisoners to degrade and demoralize them.

Get it through your head that your actions as demonstrators WERE NOT PATRIOTIC. They were providing aid and comfort to an enemy.

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Re:Most people are hoping he won't have to...
by Mary Kay / March 20, 2004 9:31 PM PST

But if he does I,m sure ,just like Bush, he will have advisors. I just hope these advisors are more correct and honest.

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Re: Most people are hoping he won't have to... -- Unfortunately, not possible
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / March 21, 2004 3:06 AM PST

Hi, MK.

Bush is right that we're in a war with terrorism, and it'll last a while. Even Euorpe is starting to realize that. But why couldn't Kerry lead in wartime -- unlike Bush at his selection, Kerry has wartime service and medals to his credit.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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According to Bush's military records ...

... he showed exemplary leadership abilities during his service (that you and others disgracefully poo poo) back then. Leadership qualities that have served him well in office. There is not much in the way of leadership to be found in Kerry's history, military or otherwise. There is scarily little there demonstrating an ability to provide steady leadership during tough times when tough decisions must be made and stood by based on conviction. He hasn't even been able to lead in the Senate by sponsoring and ushering to passage of any major piece of legislation during his long and supposedly distinguished career.

Evie Happy

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Re:According to Bush's military records ...
by Josh K / March 21, 2004 11:31 PM PST

Don't you mean "exemplarary?"


If his leadership skills were so great, how come hardly anyone even remembers seeing him?

And I'm sure Kerry isn't the only one eager to hear Bush boast of his time with the ANG while Kerry was in Vietnam.

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The problem, Josh...
by J. Vega / March 22, 2004 1:41 AM PST

Josh, the problem is that we are still waiting to see Kerry's military service records. Then we can compare records. Why does not Kerry call for their release, as was done by the Democrats with the records of Bush?

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(NT) Speaking of [broken] records.....
by Josh K / March 22, 2004 1:54 AM PST
In reply to: The problem, Josh...


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Why does that still upset, you, Josh...
by J. Vega / March 22, 2004 2:31 AM PST

Josh, why does the sound of that record, which you woild have us pass off as a question that should not be answered, upset you when played?
Many people would , to use your analogy, like to hear the sound of that record, which will still fully play out, no matter how many times you try to dismiss it as "broken" or not of interest. Questions have been raised, and a release of those records might answer them. Why does not "Stonewall Kerry" ask for their release? That would end that "Where are they" question asked in many more places than this forum.

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Doesn't upset me at all, J
by Josh K / March 22, 2004 2:39 AM PST

Your one-man crusade to create an issue out of this is pretty amusing (and wonderfully ironic), though not nearly as entertaining as some of Ed's efforts.

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One man, surely you jest, Josh...
by J. Vega / March 22, 2004 2:57 AM PST

My " one-man crusade", surely you jest, Josh. Do you honestly believe that there are not many more other veterans (as well as a lot of non-veterans) who have called for the release of those records?
It's funny, especially when Democrats scream about somebody bring that up, considering the repetitious use of names like Nixon or McCarthy or words like "Bushies", "Neocons" by them in their political campaigning.

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Thanks for not asking if I was joshing :-)
by Josh K / March 22, 2004 3:11 AM PST

I can only go by what I read or hear, and the only place I've seen anyone making a fuss about the release of Kerry's service records is in your posts.

I'm not sure I understand the Nixon or McCarthy references in terms of this topic.

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I don't know ...
by Evie / March 22, 2004 2:07 AM PST

... probably because you wish to dismiss the comments of anyone that does remember him from his original unit? The record is clear, he was a top notch pilot and was praised for his leadership abilities -- factor #1 in my book for an effective CIC. It seems that Kerry was a bit of a loose cannon from those who have spoken out about what they remember of him. If he and his spokespeople continue to point to his service and heroism in Vietnam as qualifiers for him to be CIC, and since he is so snittily proud of the fact that "he served", you would think he would want that record released and discussed in the campaign. Wonder why not ...

Evie Happy

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For the record, Josh.....
by Bo Boggs / March 22, 2004 4:18 AM PST

'And I'm sure Kerry isn't the only one eager to hear Bush boast of his time with the ANG while Kerry was in Vietnam.'

Had George Bush merely 'put in his time' in the NG, your comment might have some merit. Unlike those (that most left leaners lump GWB with), who did use the NG simply to escape the draft, GWB volunteered for pilot training. I for one can tell you that learning to fly ain't easy. Flying supersonic fighters, especially the Century Series that were the mainstay during that time was extremely dangerous.

But more to the point, is that this course of action required 21 months minimum of ACTIVE DUTY to get through flight school. Then the NG active duty requirement for the remainder of the 6 years. It is very possible that GWB spent more time on active duty than John Kerry did.

'how come hardly anyone even remembers seeing him?'

Many have come forward from his regular Texas assignment to verify his attendance and participation there. In fact, the records show that he was ahead of his requirements for time served when he requested transfer to Alabama. In that environment, he was essentially a temp. serving only in make work type duties, so it is not strange to me that few if any would remember him.


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" Even Europe" ?
by Richard Jones Forum moderator / March 21, 2004 10:55 PM PST

Hi Dave,

Huh? Seems to me that the Europeans have a firsthand knowledge of terrorism that far predates the U.S.A's.


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