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C-Section Refusal Leads to Murder Charge

Do you think this mother committed murder? Did she choose death for her infant or just didn't choose life for her infant? I guess a lot depends on whether you're pro-life or pro-choice.

"SALT LAKE CITY, Utah (AP) -- A pregnant woman who allegedly ignored medical warnings to have a Caesarean section to save her twins was charged Thursday with murder after one of the babies was stillborn."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/03/11/mother.charged.ap/index.html

Now this makes a lot of sense:

"In January, the state Supreme Court ruled that unborn children at all stages of development are covered under the state's criminal homicide statute. The law exempts the death of a fetus during an abortion."

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Re:C-Section Refusal Leads to Murder Charge

In reply to: C-Section Refusal Leads to Murder Charge

I personally don't consider it murder.It's not a choice I would have made but then my choices are probably determined by my religious background and
family values. And considering the ruling was made in UTAH, where they are sometimes confused themselves about their moral standards because of Long standing but now illegal practices, I'm sure there will be much discussion about this b4 it comes up for appeal.

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Re:C-Section Refusal Leads to Murder Charge

In reply to: C-Section Refusal Leads to Murder Charge

I'd like to see the results of a psychiatric evaluation before too long. She seems to be a couple of balls shy of a full rack. And she looks doped up in that picture.

Dan

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I don't think I would call it murder, ...

In reply to: Re:C-Section Refusal Leads to Murder Charge

I doubt the intent was there or a certainty of results when she chose not to have the Caesarian section. However, her reasons for not having it, if true, makes her guilt of child endangerment in my opinion and if I were sitting on a jury I would find here guilty in a heartbeat.

What floors me is the state Supreme Court ruling, I think it stinks. It should be stated the other way around. An abortion is premeditated, the intention to kill is there and the results are sure to be death. Murder, plain and simple.

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Re:I don't think I would call it murder, ...

In reply to: I don't think I would call it murder, ...

I think her mental capacity and condition are key factors here, and both are suspect. The reasons given here sound like the kind of thing that prosecutors release to get the case some ink and start the talk radio guys raving.

Dan

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I thought the fetus wasn't human until it took that magic trip down the birth canal.

In reply to: Re:C-Section Refusal Leads to Murder Charge

How much difference a few centimeters make!

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The law is backwards.

In reply to: C-Section Refusal Leads to Murder Charge

I don't think anyone can be forced by law to have a C-section. Be an interesting case to follow. If you can force someone to have a C-section for delivery, what's to say you couldn't force them to have an abortion to save their life?

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Hardly a legitimate comparison ...

In reply to: The law is backwards.

You are citing a situation in which we literally have to choose which of two beings will survive. This is not in any way comparable.

As I understand it, in this case the mother chose to willingly endanger one of the twins because she did not want a scar from a Cesarean Section. The issue is complex because the mother's mental competence has been questioned. There are a whole raft of issues present.

I don't know whether or not the mother's actions constitute murder under Utah law, but her actions were certainly irresponsible and irrational.

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Looking at it from the natural birth standpoint.

In reply to: Hardly a legitimate comparison ...

A woman decides in spite of her health or the baby's health being injured to still insist on natural birth process. Both C-section and Abortion remove the child from the womb in an unnatural manner. Yes, one results in death, maybe the other will save the child. The question I have is should we say a woman can't choose natural birth, or be at risk of prosecution for insisting on a natural birth process, even if it endangers her or the child?

She was worried about the scar? If the doctor was good, she wouldn't have much of a scar and the cut would have been hidden by the natural crease or hair. They do have cosmetic C-Sections available.

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Do you recall the first recorded C-section? It was partly successful, things have improved.[nt]

In reply to: Hardly a legitimate comparison ...

.

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There are good reasons to avoid a C-Section if one possibly can.

In reply to: C-Section Refusal Leads to Murder Charge

http://www.health.family.org/babies/articles/a0000537.html

In 1970, 5.5 percent of babies were delivered by cesarean section. By 1988, the percentage was up to 24.7 percent....Cesarean births, however, are expensive, require a longer hospital stay than vaginal births and leave a scar in the uterus as well as on abdominal skin....For a number of reasons, many women don?t conceive another child after a C-section....In Great Britain, researchers found that once she started to try and get pregnant after a cesarean, one in eight women took more than a year to conceive. After natural birth, the figure was one in twelve.... (more at link)
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I don't think this was one of those times. However, one can't know

In reply to: There are good reasons to avoid a C-Section if one possibly can.

much about the actual case from reading that one article. As has been said in this thread there may factors we don't know about, there usually are.

In my opinion the law is really screwed up. To be able to charge a mother with murder when the intent to kill isn't there, even in drug use, yet abortion is not considered murder when clearly the intent is to kill the baby.

We kill babies so casually and then we are shocked when our youth turn into killers.

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Re:C-Section Refusal Leads to Murder Charge

In reply to: C-Section Refusal Leads to Murder Charge

There is definitely something wrong with this mother - and I don't mean refusing a Caesarean.

The baby tested positive for alcohol and cocaine and the father was smoking pot with her three weeks before the delivery. She kept going out to smoke before the delivery. It's a miracle either one survived.

She now says that she didn't refuse the Caesarean.

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Yes,more than CS here, so why this particular charge faulting the refusal of a CS?

In reply to: Re:C-Section Refusal Leads to Murder Charge

Sounds like they don't have any other law to punish her on and this is the best they can whip up on short notice and without "womb abuse" laws enacted, yet. Would this qualify as "straining at the law" like someone on the toilet?

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