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General discussion

Building PC

Jun 16, 2004 9:50PM PDT

Do you feel like it is better to have a pc built to your specs or purchase Dell etc.? If having it built. what is the best tower,motherboard,video card,memory etc.?
Betty Ament

Discussion is locked

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Re: Building PC
Jun 16, 2004 10:26PM PDT

Buy a Dell first and it'll save you many headaches. My second pc I handbuilt. So I thnk Dell for getting me into computers again. Before that I got soured on win 95 and packard bells.

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Re: Building PC
Jun 16, 2004 10:37PM PDT

I'm looking at the numbers and its still cheaper to get some Dell or other and change the video card to some gamer card at the end of the day.

Plus you know it works when delivered.

First time builders should buy a working machine, then play with upgrades, then they know if they can/should...

Bob

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Re: Building PC
Jun 17, 2004 1:08PM PDT

ok, personally i would say get the thing built to most u can afford (or build it yourself, i'll talk more on this later)

If having it built. what is the best tower,motherboard,video card,memory etc.?

this is answered by what you can afford,
here is a list of high and mid level ranges of equipment names and models,

CPU- AMD Athlon64 (high level) AMD Athlon64 FX (beyond fast) Intel Penitum4 over 2.8 Ghz (high level)
Intel Pentium4 XE (extreme ed.) 3.2/3.4 GHZ (beyond fast)

Video Card- ATi Radeon X800 Series (brand new, super fast) ATi Radeon 9800/9800pro/9800xt (3 different cards there, all of them high performance) nVidia GeForce6800 Ultra (not even out yet, super power)
nVidia GeForce FX 5950 Ultra (current king of the hill for nVidia)

the tower (case) is just a personal thing, and it of course needs good cooling.
for example a gamer tower from Thermaltake will give awesome cooling, and cost around $200
while a well cooled tower from Antec or Enermax can be had for around $150 (100 if you find a great deal)

Memory- the RAM should be at least 512 MB or more

Hard Disk- this should be around 80GB or more...

for a mid range system

CPU- AMD AthlonXP (all are very good value) Intel Penitum4 under 2.8 Ghz (still a bit pricey, but not a rip off)

Video Card- ATi Radeon 9200-9700PRO or lower (all of the newer cards are high power, such as 9600XT)
nVidia GeForce FX 5200-5900 Ultra (good cards)

RAM- again 512 MB or more

HardDisk- 80 GB or more


if u get it built by dell, i would reccomend having them customize it a bit.

if you want to build your own, either get some books or go to a local computer store and ask them about that, find the repair tech would be your best bet to get info.
of course you could always just go find some old computer (Penium 2 or 3/ Athlon (nonXP or 64)/Duron/Celeron (under 1.3 Ghz)) and take it apart and put it back together, to learn.
but i would say ask around a little, custom building a pc yourself is simple, just not a cakewalk.
and it does take about 3hrs.
i would reccomend you build your own but that is always your own choice how you get your computer.

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Re: Building PC
Jun 17, 2004 5:00PM PDT

From experience in building pc's for myself or someone else, it is dependant on who you are? If you know nothing about building a pc, it can be very frustrating. Getting the jumpers set correctly, mounting the heat sink on the cpu and in the right direction, know why you want the card you buy and feeling confident about your purchase.

These are some of the easy pitfalls awaiting the new-to-be builder. My recommendation is dont, if you have no tech savy. It's alot of money and can be a great deal of your time and frustration after you have fried a cpu or cant figure out why you cant get passed bios screen because you have a jumper missing or in the wrong place.

Home computer deals such as Dell and other retailers like PC Club, CompUSA have some great bargains, and you get it home and plug it in and off you go. Leave the techie stuff to the techies and do what you like to do with your Home computer.

I have seen the frustration alot of people run into trying to do their own systems. The crazy part most people dont get is having a computer with super fast video cards or blinding speed hard drives is not the real world. Computers for the home for the most common user are not intended for serious real time applications or require responce times improvements measured in milliseconds. More over most would not notice it. Let alone understand why they should need it. Just enjoy your computing experience, thats why you want one right???

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Re: Building PC
Jun 17, 2004 10:23PM PDT

It's better to buy from an outfit like Dell who'll back up their product and most likely have most or all of what you're looking for already built in and at a price most can't match.

However, there's another possibility and an even better solution: build your own yourself! Many advantages: you learn what goes where and why, how to repair or replace a bad piece of hardware, you can pick up inexpensive or used parts to add extra goodies, and it happens to very satisfying when you get it together, hit the on switch, and it all comes together. Really not as mystifying as most people think.

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Re: Building PC
Aug 12, 2004 7:35PM PDT

In most cases you can't get off cheaper by building your own PC. You do however have more flexibility by building your own. If you already have the software you want on your rig then build it yourself and configure it the way you want. Most techno geeks do this, or people who have specific needs and wants. If however you are just an average Joe just buy off the shelf or one of the custom builts. Remember that if you're doing it yourself use the reputable mail order places to save a few bucks. For the most part I recommend NewEgg.com and Micro Center.

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Re: Building PC DO IT YourSelf
Aug 12, 2004 8:07PM PDT

Before you spend your hard earned money on that Dell, try printing out the spec sheet once you have configured it (but not bought yet) and then go to a site like pricewatch.com or zipzoomfly.com and see what you can get all the parts for. If you are not intending to build this as a high-end super gaming machine, you don't need the $200.00 cases etc. Get yourself the type case you want, usually less than $65.00 shipped (be sure Power Supply is minimum 350W, I sugg. 400W). Look on P/W for Motherboard/CPU combo ( AMD Is better value ) most will have everything you need "on-board", but I would suggest you make certain it has an AGP Slot so that if or when you need better video card you can easily upgrade. If running Win XP 512MB DDR Ram minimum (more is better in this case).
When you have all your parts in hand read the manual that came with m/b, use google and cnet and do a search on pc building. You will find more than enough info to help you. If you get stuck or just want to ask a question email me, cudascomputers@gmail.com, I'll gladly give you advice to get you past the sticky parts (no charge of course ).
I assure you that once you've done this you will be very proud of yourself and will have a great machine, cheaply, and the bragging rights will be invaluable..lol. Good Luck New "Techie"

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Re: Building PC DO IT YourSelf
Aug 12, 2004 9:35PM PDT

Thank you for your confidence in me; I hope I do not disappoint. My first attempt to DIY. Antec Sonata case with 380W power supply; Intel D865PERL m/b. Motherboard lights up, fans run, but no response from DVD-ROM or floppy. Also, monitor says "no video signal," then goes immediately into power save mode. Feels like I'm oh so-o-o close, but not quite there. Please, Computerdog, any help...? Thanks.

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Re: Building PC DO IT YourSelf
Aug 12, 2004 11:46PM PDT

Several things could be awry, but since the floppy was not responding, it's probably a power supply problem.

First, check all connectors to make sure they are properly seated - all the way into the slot. Check diagram on motherboard and make sure the floppy is connected to the FDD header(right next to the power connection). The hard drive should be connected to IDE 0 (white on your board - in line with power connection). DVD-ROM cable would go to the second IDE channel - the black one. For this setup, both hard-drive and DVD-ROM should have the "Master" jumpers set. All drives also have a power supply connection - usually a white connector plugged into a grouping of 4 thick pins on the drive.

Is your hard drive receiving power? If so, check the other power connectors by trying them with the hard drive to make sure juice is flowing. If you find a connector that does not send power, your power supply is faulty and should be replaced.

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Re: Building PC DO IT YourSelf
Aug 13, 2004 5:13AM PDT

Thank you to both Marty and Gumdrop. I will double-check all suggested fixes the minute I get home tonight. W.r.t. the memory, I might report that I've got four Mushkin DDR's -- 2 GB worth. Perhaps I will try to remove two of the four sticks and that way attempt to start up with less memory. This will also allow me mix and match among the four sticks, just in case any one is found to be "bad."

W.r.t. the wiring, let me report that both the m/b and the hd's are SATA, so I'm using SATA connectors. Perhaps I'll also try backing off one of the drives, just long enough to get the system running, then add second later. Also, is it necessary to have a speaker card? I notice that one of the sets of wire coming from front panel is for a connector entitled "Speaker." It is an orphan, i.e., with no apparent place to plug into on the m/b.

Finally, there is a point of confusion regarding the "Power ON' connector from the front panel. The chart on the m/b appears to say it should be connected between the "2" and "4" pins, which are side-by-side next to each other. However, the Power On connector has two wires going into the outer slots of its THREE-PIN-HOLE arrangement! (Is that confusing enough?) In other words, you can't get the connector onto its assigned place and still have both wires make contact with their posts. On the other hand, there is a post position on the m/b right nearby where the connector can be placed. It is marked "STR" and I have been presuming it to mean it is the place to connect the Power On..

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Re: Building PC DO IT YourSelf
Aug 13, 2004 12:40AM PDT

One thing that you might want to check out, which is not obvious, is to make sure that the type of memory modules you are using are the right ones for your motherboard. Also, if you are using more than one memory module, make sure they are the same or compatible with each other.

I've run into two do-it-yourself situations where the wrong type of memory caused an apparent video problem ("no video signal"). In both cases, the memory modules appeared to be the right type, but one of the memory modules had memory chips placed on one side of the board, while the other one had memory chips placed on both sides of the board. Seems like they should have worked, but they didn't.

As soon as the same type of memory module (including one-sided or two-sided memory modules) matched, the problems were resolved.

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Re: Building PC DO IT YourSelf
Aug 13, 2004 5:12AM PDT

Thank you to both Marty and Gumdrop. I will double-check all suggested fixes the minute I get home tonight. W.r.t. the memory, I might report that I've got four Mushkin DDR's -- 2 GB worth. Perhaps I will try to remove two of the four sticks and that way attempt to start up with less memory. This will also allow me mix and match among the four sticks, just in case any one is found to be "bad."

W.r.t. the wiring, let me report that both the m/b and the hd's are SATA, so I'm using SATA connectors. Perhaps I'll also try backing off one of the drives, just long enough to get the system running, then add second later. Also, is it necessary to have a speaker card? I notice that one of the sets of wire coming from front panel is for a connector entitled "Speaker." It is an orphan, i.e., with no apparent place to plug into on the m/b.

Finally, there is a point of confusion regarding the "Power ON' connector from the front panel. The chart on the m/b appears to say it should be connected between the "2" and "4" pins, which are side-by-side next to each other. However, the Power On connector has two wires going into the outer slots of its THREE-PIN-HOLE arrangement! (Is that confusing enough?) In other words, you can't get the connector onto its assigned place and still have both wires make contact with their posts. On the other hand, there is a post position on the m/b right nearby where the connector can be placed. It is marked "STR" and I have been presuming it to mean it is the place to connect the Power On.

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Re: Building PC
Aug 12, 2004 9:36PM PDT

Its better to build your own, this way you know what you have in it. My first computer, a Dell, bought 4 years ago, by the way it's still running. I have built 5 computers for friends. I like Abit, Asus components. Intel CPU's, nvidia chipsets for graphics. The cost is a little higher than buying one already built. But, as the saying goes you get what you pay for. Angel

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Re: Building PC
Aug 12, 2004 11:22PM PDT

I built my first PC about 3 years ago.

Pros-got what I wanted, a lot of choices, easy to upgrade, Learned a lot, pride in the accomplishment, not that hard, Now with XP still a great machine, MY machine, works great, Took five minutes to put new DVD burner in it, once built individual parts cheap

Cons -Not a Mac ;-} Not cheaper, a lot of choices (both pro and con), some frustrations, No customer service to call (as if that ever worked), everytbody asks you to fix theirs. Don't expect to do it quickly the first time,
The second was much faster

If you like to learn and enjoy challeges build check out bare bones like at Tiger Direct
If youy want to just start using the computer buy
Terry

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Re: Building PC
Aug 12, 2004 11:45PM PDT

It all depends on what you want to do with your PC. If you are into PC gaming, or heavy duty video editing, then I suggest you do your homework and build your own. The only draw back is that you become your own technical support.

All off the shelf systems these days can handle the tasks most people ask of their machines such as web surfing, e-mail, word processing, spreadsheets, photo editing, and graphic design. And buying a system from a reputable company like Dell, support is only a phone call away. Even if the support person is somewhere in India.

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something else to consider
Aug 13, 2004 3:28AM PDT

while state of the art machines are generally cheaper when bought from dell or similar, do you really need a 64 bit system to read e mail? I just built a very nice spare system for $130, using old parts like pc133 memory and ebay motherboards and chips. Once you have the skill to DIY, if you can stand being a year or two behind the technology curve, you can save a LOT. and most people don't really need more than a PIII.

for a long time there was a pressing need to buy latest and greatest, there were very obvious benefits, but now the economics are more like buying a new vs used car.

I've got a 450 mhz PII machine here that just won't die, does everything, and since it's never on the net it never gets viruses or parasites. also it doesn't overheat like these 1.8 ghz AMD chips which die on me once a year. most of its part are available on ebay for less than $20.

of course, used is used . . .

--fj

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Re: Building PC
Aug 13, 2004 3:38AM PDT

I have been working with computers since 1974, so this is a "no brainer" for me. I always build my own.

If you are going to start BYO start with a really good case, I have a Lan Li Full Tower- lots of room to add drives and stuff and easy to work inside. This case didn't come with a power supply so an Enermax EG651P-VE was added to insure adequate power for future peripherals.This is the NON TECH part of your system so it should be good to go for the next few systems you build.

The TECH part is gonna be a matter of choice and need. My experiance is to get the best you can afford, in my case not a problem so I currently am running a ASUS A8V(939pin)mb with AMD64FX53, 1gig of Crucial PC3200 platnium, 80gig MAXTOR SATA mirrored RAID array boot, 2 120gig MAXTOR 7200rpm storage HD's, ATI AIW 9800Pro128,DVD-RW, CD-RW, flash drive, ect.

This is a high end system and would have cost close to $3000.00 to buy from a vendor. My total cost was $1080.00 for the mb, CPU and 2 SATA drives. Everything else was recycled from older systems.

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Re: Building PC
Aug 13, 2004 3:46AM PDT

There are valid arguements for each I will highlight the most important, which is for you? It is a matter of what you need and your technical expertise (you don't need that much to assemble a PC.)
Purchasing a PC from a company such as Dell or Gateway:
1. Pre-Assembled, Pre-Configured, and Pre-Tested.
- This means that you just gota plug it in and it works!
2. You have someone to turn to if you have problems.
- All OEM's offer toll-free technical support.
3. You get a Year (or can buy more) of Hardware Maintence from the same place.
- No having to troubleshoot problems with your PC down to the component level and then trying to get the vendor to replace the defective part and justify why it is defective. Less hassle.
4. Pre-Configured, Pre-built PC's are a good value.
- Try assembling the same components at the same price! Often you will find the best you can do is save a few 10's of dollars over the OEM PC. Also, to you may have to order components from multiple vendors to achieve the cost savings!

Points to raise for assembling your own PC.
1. Performance.
- You can achieve higher performance by using top quality components over OEM's.
2. Customizable, Personable.
- You can have that custom paint job case with the cool graphic etched in the side window of your glowing red LED's in the case!
3. Lower Cost when compared with premium components.
- If you need more memory, or a faster video card then Assembling it yourself will actually save you money. Here is how it works, when buying a Pre-built OEM system they achieve cost savings from bulk component purchasing as well as assembly line efficiency. When you need these extra's compare the price they charge to install these over their standard Pre-built system components, it is often %30-40 more to add these premium components because they have to add these (labor).
So bottom line is,
If you need a basic PC, OEM's are the way to go.
If you need that speed demon of a system build it yourself if price is a concern, or else just buy an Alienware PC!
-Corey

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Re: Building PC
Aug 13, 2004 5:02AM PDT

Are USB components,IE Drives, Burners, & Capture cards as good as PCI ones?

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Re: Building PC
Aug 13, 2004 4:03AM PDT

Much cheaper AND the same money gets a much larger, more versatile system that can use previously accumulated hardware (example: choosing a motherboard with both PCI and the older ASI slots).
HINT: Don't stint on memory quality -- DIMM sticks AND power supply (which supplies memory voltages). Either can give you subtle operating headaches that are difficult to track down.

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Re: Building PC
Aug 13, 2004 4:46AM PDT

With the best of the ready builts having at least 1 in 5 having serious problems within the first year I build my own. Some of the name brand computers have a 4 out 5 failure rate within the first year. The low cost of Brand Name computers seems to result in very low cost components being inside. I build using the best quality parts and it costs me more just for the parts then a Name Brand costs already built at the low end. At the high end I can build them for less if I do not count my labor. It is not very difficult to build my own, most of the time is finding the best parts at the best prices. Only a couple of hours to assemble the machine then a day to load software.

Build your own and you will save time and money in the long run. Much less likely to have a breakdown.

Thank you, Kris

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hear, hear
Aug 13, 2004 5:48AM PDT

the ready- builts are generally "maxed out" in terms of their components' "upgrade-ability," so if you ever want to add more memory, more hard drives, etc., sometimes you will discover that you have to buy a whole new system for that one improvement. if you build with your own components you usually get more options in terms of pci slots, ide channels, etc. also you don't have to buy proprietary peripherals from the vendor like cd drives, you can get anything from anywhere and it will generally work. - fj

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Re: Building PC
Aug 13, 2004 5:53AM PDT

It is my opinion that it is better to build your own computer because you get all the components thatyou can reserch yourself on the Web and not just be given what components the people like Dell or Gateway etc. have managed to get a deal on(or wish to unload) to save money. You can buy the very best of components.
Building a computer yourself is not nesessarily the cheapest way a to go but you will ( if you do the rearch) get the what you want.
Laurence

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Re: Building PC
Aug 13, 2004 8:26AM PDT

That is the half the fun of building your own PC, learning about all the different boards and what makes them different.

It comes down to what you want in your computer; do you want it to look good? Or just work really well.

Do you do a lot of gaming, if you do then you will need the latest and greatest Video card if not, and you will watch DVD?s then a good video card with lots of ram will be fine (and save you half the money)

Are you going to be video editing or audio? In most cases if you are doing that, you want to insure you have fast hard drives 8 Meg buffers, fast access time. Most serious video and audio people have their files and O/S on one drive, and put their video and audio files on a second separate drive.

You need to do your own research, and then research the best places to buy your parts.

For me, I go with a name Brand mother board, you do get what you pay for when it comes to mother boards. Some can be finicky with O/S's so I like the Intel boards or the Asus something of that caliber.

I have built many systems, and all are different depending on my use. So as a basic system, with min. requirements it?s pretty hard to beat the big manufactures on price, except that you will have a better quality machine if you pick the better parts. If you are making a high end machine, you can usually save some money, and again, have a better quality machine, if you know what you are doing, and have done your research. One good place to find out about boards, drives, chips is tomshardware.com .

Basic Items you will need to buy: 1. Case $25 and up, 2.Mother board $45 and up, 3.Chip ? Intel or AMD both are excellent no matter what anyone says, they both have pros and cons. $60 and up 4. Hard drive $50 and up 5. Video Card $25 and up 6. Ram should be at least 512K of ram Pricing depends on the system u build 256K is good, but for a little extra 512 is great. All depends on what you are using it for, I do web design, and have some powerful programs up, so running programs like Photoshop, dream weaver and surfing the net can slow you down, so I use a gig on my developing computer. In my database computer, I only have 256K. 7. Most motherboards have an eithernet card build in to the board, if not, you will need that for either networking $5 and up, or for high-speed Internet.
8. Modem, $5 and up some motherboards have that, if not and you want to fax you will need that as well. 9. Audio cards that depends on you. I have 5.1 channels on my Intel mother board, and I like it. My friend is an audio nut, so he has a separate board for audio. $10 and up. 10. Floppy Drive (Just for old times sake) $5 and up. 11. CD Player or Burner. Or both, Burners are so cheap, and store a lot of information. $30 and up 12. DVD player or burner, this you don?t need, unless you are watching movies? or Store LOTS of Data.

That?s it in a nut shell, with basic prices, you might be able to shop it, and save a bit more, but that is around the bottom end of the prices, the top, is anything u want to spend?

Good Luck.... the best part is the fun in the learning process, once you have done it a few times.... you'll wonder what all the fuss was about, it is pretty easy.

Willemakit

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Re: Building PC
Aug 13, 2004 4:40PM PDT

I think you mean M (Mb), not K (Kb).

I'm an AMD fan myself. I've found that they give more bang for the buck, and lately Intel's been trying to copy them (which is ironic).

256Mb of RAM is good. Anything higher is even better. Windows loves memory and the more you have the better it'll run. I have 1Gb in my workstation and it rocks.

80Gb and Higher is suggested, especially with the bloat of today's software (even with NTFS Compression).

As for the Video Card, the ATI Radeon X800 cards are awesome, but you do pay for them. If you want a basic card, a plain ATI Radeon or nVidia GeForce will do (as long as it's AGP).

DVD Burners are getting cheaper and cheaper, and they have the ability of burning both CDs and DVDs. Having a DVD Reader in one bay and a DVD Burner in another bay is handy.

If you have a cable modem, you'll need an Ethernet card. This is better than plugging it into your USB port and you usually have less problems.

As for a modem (if you have to have dialup), use a Hardware modem, not a "SoftModem".. A SoftModem uses your computer's CPU to do everything, as a HardModem has it's own processor, leaving your CPU for other stuff. USRobotics makes a good one.

The case is the personality of it all. You can have a mini, mid, or full-tower case. They also make desktop cases (but I haven't seen anyone use them in years). You can paint it any color you want, or make Lexan windows in it. Use your imagination.

..and as for the Power Supply, at least a 400 Watt Power Supply will be plenty. Enermax makes the best ones, and have a solid warranty.

If you really need a Floppy Drive, at least get a SuperDrive. It can read and write to floppy disks faster, and have support for LS120 SuperDisks.

If you're into Audio, a SB Live! or SB Audigy sound card will reproduce the best and clearest sound. I have the SB Live! 5.1 Platinum card and can instantly notice the difference between my laptop's audio and the SB card. It delivers better bass and clearer treble, not to mention it's louder.

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Re: Building PC
Aug 14, 2004 8:12PM PDT

hi, just thought i would mention one thing, when installing a master drive such as the Hard Drive please make sure that the master drive is connected to the end of the IDE cable otherwise the computer will not work correctly.

personnaly i think its better to build your own system its not as hard as what most people think, it may seem like a really big task but you will do fine as long as you read through the motherboard manual and write down the what the motherboard specification is, for example my manual says,

Memory: supports PC1600/PC2100/PC2700, Max 2GB. so i know when i go to the computer shop that my mobo can use those three types of memory and the most it can take is 2GB. (although i recommend you use memory sticks of the same type).

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Re: Building PC
Aug 14, 2004 9:07PM PDT

After reserching the systems and each part in the computers in the shops in town, I found them all severly lacking on some components and over kill on others. I didn't want to go out of town because traveling for repairs is a pain.

My solution was, I had a computer guy build mine for me exactly tho the specifications I needed. We went through each component and matched it to my computing needs. This way I have a computer that meets my needs to a T.

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Re: Building PC
Aug 16, 2004 5:47AM PDT

Getting a PC built to match what you need it for can save a lot of frustration. First, get knowledgeable about the PC. Take a PC maintenance and repair course at a local adult ed, or go to a seminar for building PCs. Go to knowledgeable print sources like "PC Hardware in a Nutshell", or magazines like "Maximum PC" and "Smart Computing". When you know what you want, check out small computer shops in the area, where you can order the components and brands you want and they may assemble it for free, if you'd like (they's check to see that it works).

Don't rely on companies like Dell for the best assembly. You may find that you need to use their parts if you want to upgrade. (In 9/98, Dell reconfigured their motherboard-power supply connection, which caused non-Dell motherboard upgrades to fry. As far as user support - my brother called them for a printer problem and the Dell support person took him through the steps of FORMATTING his computer. He lost all his PC's info, and the Dell support person quickly 'bailed' with a bogus promise to call him right back. Most places like Dell, etc. design systems with a goal for them to be replaced in 2 to 3 years. Let the buyer beware!

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Re: Building PC
Aug 16, 2004 6:16AM PDT

After having built well over a hundred custom systems, I feel that for the average pc user the best deal is to buy brand name. Prices have come down to where Dell can sell it cheaper than I could build it. For high performance systems, custom built is the only way to go, and will be more cost effective. I have worked with many dell/gateway/compaq systems that are more than enough system for the typical home user. For the techies, custom build a godbox & gloat. My system (don't know what the brand name cost would be on it) is a Barton XP2500+ on an MSI KT4V, all liquid cooled, 8X MX440 AGP, 2 gig ECC DDR2700, 4 WD 120 Gig drives 7200RPM striped raid, 52Xcdrw/dvd, 48Xcdrw/dvd, 250 gig external drive, dual redundant power supplies. I know for a fact I couldn't afford that from Dell. The determining factor to the shelf/custom question is this: What are you going to do with it?