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General discussion

Building a new PC

Jan 11, 2004 12:31PM PST

I'm going to try my hand at building a PC for the first time. I've upgraded and installed many of the components in my existing system but I've never actually built a computer from scratch. I do have a couple of friends who have some experience building PC's who are ready to help me. I've compiled a list of components from NewEgg.com. I'd love some feedback/suggestions. I'm most likely leaving something out or overlooking something. I am going to use my existing monitor and hard drives. I also plan to purchase a case from a local shop. Let me know what you think.

http://secure.newegg.com/app/WishList.asp?position=current&submit=view

Discussion is locked

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Re:Building a new PC
Jan 11, 2004 12:58PM PST

well, your newegg wish list is empty . . .

first question, what do you want to DO with this new computer? gaming? video editing? etc -fj

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Re:Re:Building a new PC
Jan 11, 2004 1:40PM PST

I was afraid that list wouldn't show up. I'll just list the components here then. And I'll be using the computer mostly for gaming. I play many of the newest games and my old computer simply isn't cutting it.

GIGABYTE 865PE Chipset Motherboard for Intel Socket 478 CPU, Model "GA-8IPE1000-L" -RETAIL

ATI RADEON 9800PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -RETAIL

COOLMAX 450W CT-450N POWER SUPPLY RETAIL W/ 2 Fans, 3 Speed Fan Control Switch ( Auto, Low, Medium)

Intel Pentium 4/ 3.0C GHz 800MHz FSB, 512KB Cache, Hyper Threading Technology - Retail

Corsair Value Select 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - OEM

Plextor 16X DVD-Rom Drive, Model PX-116A, OEM

Plextor 52x24x52 CD-RW Drive, Model PX-W5224TA-BPS, OEM Bulk pack

Creative Lab Sound Blaster Audigy ES PCI Sound Card, Model "SB0162" -OEM

D-link 10/100Mbps PCI Ethernet Adapter, Model DFE-528TX

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Consider DVD+/- all format recorder.
Jan 11, 2004 9:04PM PST

A recent sale bagged an 8X DVD all format recorder with software for under 99 bucks. It also does the CDRW chores...

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Re:Re:Re:Building a new PC
Jan 17, 2004 2:03AM PST

With all those goodies, the only one thing that I would do is up the ram to 1GB. For gaming 512MB might get a little sluggish, if at all. But to play it safe you can't make a mistake with having enough ram. Most of my friends use 1GB of ram and have never had a problem.

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Re:Building a new PC
Jan 11, 2004 2:33PM PST

>>ATI RADEON 9800PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -RETAIL

If you are building this as a gaming rig then make sure you are getting the 9800Pro that comes with Half-Life 2. Or, you could splurge and get the 9800XT. I have it and EVERY game is beautiful on it. I know it is expensive, but it is definitely worth it.

>>Intel Pentium 4/ 3.0C GHz 800MHz FSB, 512KB Cache, Hyper Threading Technology - Retail

If this is a gaming system, then maybe you want an AMD processor...? Read around the internet and form your own opinion about Intel vs. AMD processors (although I'd go with AMD!) And if you go with AMD, I'd say pick the Asus A7N8X with dual network cards, USB 2.0, etc.

>>Corsair Value Select 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - OEM

Do you really want to scimp on the RAM? For a gaming system I would suggest more than 512 MB. Maybe you could use the money you save with an AMD processor to buy Corsair TwinX dual channel memory to take advantage of whichever motherboard you choose. Trust me, you won't be dissapointed if you do.

>>Plextor 16X DVD-Rom Drive, Model PX-116A, OEM
>>Plextor 52x24x52 CD-RW Drive, Model PX-W5224TA-BPS, OEM Bulk pack

Unless you are going to be copying A LOT of cds, why don't you get a combo drive? I don't know if Plextor makes any, but Samsung makes the SM-352B with 52x24x52CDR and 16x DVD read speeds. I have it and like it, and you can get it for around $60 OEM with 2MB buffer, or $70 retail with 8MB buffer.

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Re:Re:Building a new PC
Jan 11, 2004 2:56PM PST

I'll have to check on the Half Life 2 thing. It didn't mention it but I'll check again.

I've heard the age-old debate about Intel vs. AMD. I guess it comes down to the fact that I've always used Intel and I've heard AMD chips do have some stability issues.

I should have mentioned that I'm going with TWO sticks of 512 MB RAM for a total of 1024.

I have the two drives there simply because I play so many games that I don't want to swap CD's more than I have to.

And does anyone have any good OR bad experience with NewEgg. I've always heard positive things but I want to be sure before dropping this much cash. And is it advisable to buy OEM products or would it be much wiser to go with Retail versions?

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Re:Re:Re:Building a new PC
Jan 11, 2004 8:37PM PST

ill insert my 2 cents here i work in a shop and i run an AMD 2800
i wouldnt set sight on either a P4 or AMD go for the price.
and my amd runing xp pro is so fast and stable id never have to chose but your choice

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Re:Re:Building a new PC
Jan 11, 2004 9:51PM PST

There are so many overheating problems with AMD processors that it would be unwise for someone with little experience to build a system with one.

There are no reasons you would want an AMD processor over an Intel Processor just because you play games.

I have friends that have built systems for 20 years, and will no longer touch AMD, because of the stability issues with the processors and motherboards.

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Re:Building a new PC
Jan 11, 2004 2:43PM PST

oops, almost forgot... do you have all the necessary cables (IDE, floppy)? And don't forget to get a heatsink for your CPU or you'll have a $250 paper weight in 2 minutes. Hope all of that helps, good luck...

Brennen

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Re:Building a new PC/other tips
Jan 11, 2004 9:55PM PST

Since you've done some upgrades, you are probably aware of this but thought it worth mention. You already have read over and over to make sure your power supply is more than adequate so that does not need to be rehashed. I have built or rebuilt several and find it very easy to get too comfortable with the process and even get a little sloppy and make mistakes so here is how I would go about it. If the case comes with a PSU, remove it and set it aside. Remove drive cages and anything else to get good access to the inside of the box. Pay particular attention to the fit of the motherboard. This is critical. Also be aware that the I/O coverplate that is on the case may not match the connections to the MB. Make sure it comes with the proper adapter. New Egg is good about providing decent pictures of what you will get. The case will come with "standoffs"s for the MB and the case will be drilled and threaded to accommodate many configurations. You will need to ensure that the board is properly supported but that no metal standoffs are placed where there are no holes in the board for screws. When you first place the board into the box, be careful to avoid damaging the many springy fingers on the I/O cover or allowing them to get caught inside the ports themselves...especially USB. This is easy to do. Once the MB is in place and seems reasonably aligned, install the screws one at a time but do not tighten them completely. Do attempt to center them as best as possible and don't hesitate to start over if something does not fit just right. Once you are happy with the fit (screws are still not fully tighened) test the fit of your add in cards and especially the AGP video. It should lock firmly in place and not try to lift at either side or flex the MB when you lock the set screw. if it does, find out why and fix it. Once you have a good fit of all the add in cards, you can lock down the MB. Get to the screws you can with the add in cards in place and then remove them to lock the rest. Do not over tighen them or leave any loose. There is probably plenty of other advice on specifically how to get the MB in place but I think it is critical to get a good fit and not "force" anything into place. You will also need to follow reasonable anti static precautions. There are mats and wrist straps if you want to use these. I think the clothing one has one and the environment are just as important. If you work from a chair and are constantly standing and then sitting, you may be building static charges. Your shoes can be a problem source too. I tend to ground the PC case and keep one hand touching it as I pick up and place components such as boards and memory modules. There are preferred methods for doing this. Basically, just be patient and pay attention to detail. I also like a nice clean final cable layout with everything dressed and neatly tied but that's another detail issue. Good luck with your project.

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Re:Re:Building a new PC/other tips
Jan 12, 2004 2:29AM PST

Thank you all for the help. It's nice to have a place to come to where people actually know what they're talking about. Still no one has brought up the OEM issue. Is this something I need to worry about or would I likely be safe getting it? Also the reason I went with a Gigabyte mobo was because a friend of mine had said they were pretty good. Anyone have an opinion on it? I checked TomsHardware and it seems like Asus boards are the main ones over there. Would I be better of sticking with Asus?

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OEM issues.
Jan 12, 2004 2:44AM PST

On the hardware front, OEM parts can be a little cheaper, but support non-existant.

On the OS front, you can't ask Microsoft any questions and will not be able to get patches that you have to call in for.

Bob

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asus boards, cases, etc
Jan 12, 2004 4:25AM PST

I have had not-so-good experience with asus AMD boards, one I bought from econoPC, never worked right, the other from a local dealer-- the 1st had all kinds of problems of blue screen errors, the second one melted.

I now have an MSI board with an AMD 1800 xp chip and have had no problems at all for a year now, but this is just a basic board, so . . .

when you buy your case I suggest keeping COOLING in mind . . . the bigger the better imho. I have fans everywhere now-- on the drives, etc.

I have had okay dealings with newegg. tigerdirect has also treated me well.

--fj

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Re:Building a new PC/other tips/personal experience
Jan 12, 2004 5:27AM PST

As far as MBs are concerned, I have had very good luck with ASUS boards in systems that I have built or ones that I have had built for a local school I provide hardware help for. I started asking for the ASUS boards back in 1996 on units built for the school and there has not been a single board failure to this day. Some of the old P55T2P4s I wish would die are still alive! I'd say the number of machines involved is 50 to 60, all of which have or cycle through my home from time to time. It's not a world record but more than the average user sees. I have found ASUS to be reasonable about providing BIOS updates as well but I cannot speak about customer support from them because I have never needed to call. I can recommend their boards but would not attempt to deter you from chosing another. I don't build gaming machines so can't offer much with performance tweaks. I also insist on certain brand name components and not generics or "equivalents". My school job is volunteer only so the less time I spend fixing hardware problems the better. So far I have been luckly.

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Re:Re:Building a new PC/other tips
Jan 12, 2004 12:17PM PST

From the list of components that I posted, do I need to go with a 450 Watt power supply or would 400 be sufficient? The reason I ask is becaus I may get a case that comes with a power supply.

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About power supplies.
Jan 12, 2004 8:46PM PST
http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/20021021/ is a good read. If you step back and think about it, upsizing the power supply moves you away from the issues of taxing a power supply. There is no downside to fitting an extra 100 Watt capable supply.

There are however plenty of upsides.

1. It will last longer.
2. It may run cooler.
3. It may be more efficient.

Bob
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Re:About power supplies.
Jan 14, 2004 11:01AM PST

A friend suggested that I de-activate the nic, sound, and usb capabilities that are built into the motherboard. He suggested turning them off in the BIOS and getting seperate cards for each. I was already planning on getting a sound card for the system but now I'm wondering about the USB. Would it be wise to get a card for the USB ports or are the ones on the motherboard likely fine?

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And another case question
Jan 14, 2004 11:05AM PST

This will probably sound really dumb, but looking at the cases, they have mid or full cases. What exactly do I need to be looking for?

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(NT) I like mid-size and ones that have obvious air-flow potential.
Jan 14, 2004 11:21AM PST

.

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Re:(NT) I like mid-size and ones that have obvious air-flow potential.
Jan 14, 2004 12:18PM PST
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Here's one I have at home.
Jan 14, 2004 9:50PM PST
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=V90SEL is what the kid's P4 1.9 GHz with GeForce 3 Ti, DVD, CDRW and such lives in. Seems fine. No USB 2.0 on the front ports, but the internals were rolled edges to avoid cuts and gives it some extra rigidity. The power supply is not stressed with what's inside this one. I fitted one more case fan and it runs very cool.

The http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=328-4HLW-BK is the same, but with the side cooling unit. For Intel builders this is OK, but the power supply would need to be checked out for the Athlon.

Bob
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(NT) I've only had issues with the onboard sound. LAN and USB usually just fine.
Jan 14, 2004 11:20AM PST

.

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Re:(NT) I've only had issues with the onboard sound. LAN and USB usually just fine.
Jan 15, 2004 1:21PM PST

Tomshardware recently did a test on some OCZ RAM. From the looks of it, its pretty good stuff. I had never heard of it before reading that article. Its roughly $6 more per stick at newegg. I've always heard Corsair was about the best RAM. Think this OCZ stuff is worth a try?

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mobo
Jan 16, 2004 6:09AM PST

And what's the difference between 848P and 865P? Is one better than the other? I'm looking at two Asus boards, priced the same, but this is the only real difference I can find.

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(NT) Help us out with links to products you are wanting comparisions. See if www.tomshardware.com has reviews...
Jan 16, 2004 7:04AM PST

.

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Re:Building a new PC = Asus 865P looks super.
Jan 16, 2004 9:26AM PST

I like the USB 2.0 ports and that 1000BT Ethernet can be a bit of future proofing.

Bob

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Re:Re:Building a new PC = <br> <br>Asus 865P looks super.
Jan 16, 2004 1:53PM PST

Money has become a slight issue so for now I may hold off on the video card. I think I'll stick with my existing card (Radeon 8500LE 128MB). It's a bit dated but I think it'll have to get the job done until I'm in a position to get the 9800. And any other thoughts on the RAM; Corsair, OCZ or Kingston?

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price check
Jan 16, 2004 5:26PM PST

IMHO, why don't you check compuplus.com. I've placed many orders with them and have had nothing but sucsess with them. I find they have beat tigerdirect 90% of the time. They have even had items (CPU's) that tigerdirect didn't. I live overseas (military) and that never cause any problem with them (as it's been with other services). At least do a price check...good luck.

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ATI 8500 should do fine...
Jan 16, 2004 9:58PM PST

But worth discussing is what you are running it on now. Moving from say a 2GHz P4 CPU to a 3.0GHz P4 even with HT is not earth shattering. It's been my observation that somewhere above 1GHz in the CPU's the CPU started to not be the bottleneck for things like 3D gaming (with the usual 512M of RAM.)

What else can be done if you don't move the graphic card up is to run smaller maps and a little less detail on the games. My kid's game machine is some 1.9GHz P4 with the GeForce 3 Ti card. It's rare to see it not keep up, but is possible to turn on every detail and try 1200x1024 and at that setting it will get jumpy. In that case, the video card seems to be the bottleneck. But given pulling back to 1024x768 or even 800x600 fixes it, the machine is not getting an upgrade.

I've found zero difference on RAM as long as it's the type intended for the setup in question. Maybe for overclockers they will find that ZUBY memory will go out further, but ZUBY doesn't maintain that one stick will be exactly like another and the observation will fail in a month. (There is no known ZUBY memory company...)

Bob

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Re:ATI 8500 should do fine...
Jan 17, 2004 9:38AM PST

The system I have right now is a P4 1.7GHz, 512MB RDRAM and the 8500LE 128MB vid card. I'm running Windows XP Pro. The latest round of games (Sim City 4, Halo, Deus Ex:Invisible War) really seem to have trouble running on my PC. For instance, on Halo and Deus Ex, I have to run them at 800x600 with graphics settings on low to avoid slowdown. That's why I'm wanting to get this new system.