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General discussion

Breaking: 12 y.o. boy raises allegations against Jacko ...

Nov 18, 2003 1:54AM PST

... numerous police are currently executing a warrant at his Neverland Ranch. Apparently porta potties have been brought on scene, so this is gonna be a thorough one!

No links yet.

My gut feeling has always been that this "man" interacts inappropriately (criminally probably) with children. I am amazed that ANY parent in their right mind would let their kid within 100 feet of him.

Evie Happy

Discussion is locked

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Here's a link
Nov 18, 2003 3:22AM PST
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Re: Breaking: 12 y.o. boy raises allegations against Jacko ...
Nov 18, 2003 3:26AM PST

Hi, Evie.

I think this is a case where "innocent until proven guilty" is even more important than usual, as a lot of people (including me) share the same "gut-feeling," which makes him a really easy target for someone seeking 15 minutes of fame plus a book and movie deal.
-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Re:Re: Breaking: 12 y.o. boy raises allegations against Jacko ...
Nov 18, 2003 3:32AM PST

I agree with that thought. Wait $ see

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True ...
Nov 18, 2003 3:34AM PST

... but after his own comments in his book or that documentary (can't remember which but they were his words), the stuff about sharing a bed with unrelated children being a natural thing was just way too over the edge, I think he is worthy of more rather than less investigative attention.

The way he weasled out of the last situation left much to be desired. Jackson benefitted more than his victim IMO.

Well, we'll see what develops!

Evie Happy

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Rare agreement ...
Nov 20, 2003 1:34AM PST

because when children or other "vulnerable persons" are involved far too many forget how our justice system is designed and start demanding proof of innocence.

The very vulnerability of these vulnerable persons tends to make them more apt to say what the police, parents, reporters, psychologists, psychiatrists, etc. WANT them to say rather than what they actually know or experienced.

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I agree too ...
Nov 20, 2003 2:20AM PST

... which is why unrelated children should not be in the same bedroom as any 45 y.o. man in the manner in which it occurred with Jackson. HE should avoid that for the same reasons that others, particularly those who are "celebrity targets", should avoid situations that could lead to "he said she said* or other such allegations. Billy Graham has often stated how he will never be alone with a woman besides his wife -- I think this is very smart. My advisor in grad school would always leave the door open whenever I was in his office. Given the 1993 case, it's beyond bizarre for Jackson to admit to sleeping with children!

Evie Happy

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Money buys almost ..........
Nov 18, 2003 4:36AM PST

Watched the weekly series TV program "Las Vegas on NBC last night. The top manager (boss James Caan) of the Casino/Hotel ordered that this rich "whale" be evicted. (I didn't catch the reasons why?) He resisted strongly, reminding that he was the 7th richest man in the world. J. Cann's subordinates were having some difficulties trying the eviction. Course the main part of the program was about someone trying to murder the celebrity singer at a special show in the casino. The eviction of the "whale" was just a sideline of the program. Near the end of the program James Cann came face to face with the 'whale' with cordial greeting and ordered him with his baggage to leave the premises regardless of his wealth. The 'whale' finally gave a big grin and said that he had recently purchased large amounts of stock in several casinos/hotels including the controlling stock in this one. He said he was giving James a 'test' and was happy with the way he handled "whales" and that James and his staff would be staying on. James made it clear that he James alone would be the controlling manager of the Casino/Hotel and is a salary raise INVOLVED?

Jacko does seem to spread money around kids parents from what I can observe.

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An arrest warrant has been issued
Nov 19, 2003 1:54AM PST

Michael Jackson is going to be charged with one count of child molestation. The warrant has been issued but not yet served. I'm not bothering with a link since there is still not much detail.

This is a tough one to suss out at this point. On the one hand, describing Michael and his interactions with children as "strange" would be an understatement and his willingness to pay $20 million to settle that previous case doesn't make him look good. On the other hand, his prior accuser was willing to take the money rather than have his day in court and (at the boy's urging) did not press charges, which IMO can call an accuser's motives into question.

It's much too soon to tell whether this is someone trying to make a quick buck or a legitimate complaint.

One thing I think we can all agree on: What Michael Jackson has done to his face is a crime.

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Re: An arrest warrant has been issued
Nov 19, 2003 2:32AM PST

Hi, Josh.

Did you happen to see Michael's "message to the children of the world" last Christmas or New Year's? It made my skin crawl!
-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Re:Re: An arrest warrant has been issued
Nov 19, 2003 2:37AM PST

Hi Dave:

No, I was lucky enough to miss it, but I've seen other statements he's made including his teary-eyed protestation of innocence after the last alleged incident, and those made my skin crawl. His pleas sounded awfully like the kinds of things you hear pedophiles say.

Michael just may be twisted enough to not understand what is wrong with his behavior. If he's charged and the evidence against him is compelling, I wonder if there might be an insanity defense....

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I think he's always wanted to be white, not black.
Nov 20, 2003 12:13PM PST

Looking at what he's done to his face and other features, it certainly wasn't to enhance his genetic Negroid features, but almost all of it is done to appear white or of European rather than African background. Look then at who he has associated with, almost exclusively all his life. Look at the children he seems attracted to, all of them white. He's been a sick person mentally for years in my opinion with a severe identity problem in accepting himself and his race. I remember the studies they did of black children years ago, showing them pictures of black and white children and then asking them which was pretty and which was ugly and almost all of them chose the black child as the ugly one. Michael Jackson, in spite of, and maybe due to, his early childhood fell victim to that syndrome to a greater degree. No matter what psychological problems he may have encountered growing up however, it doesn't justify the things he's been doing to children. I get the feeling that he has rejected his race, rejected his family, and somehow thru illicit contacts with these white children is trying to share or capture something he felt he missed out on growing up as a child of color. His race and how he perceives himself in relation to that may not have any bearing on this, but looking also at his sister Janet (of Good Times fame) who also has followed his same odd "whiter looking" type of plastic surgeries, it makes me wonder what Michael and Janet actually went through themselves growing up.

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Re:I think he's always wanted to be white, not black.
Nov 20, 2003 10:12PM PST

Actually I think you meant LaToya, not Janet. I'm probably not the only person who has wondered whether LaToya and Michael are really one person. Have you ever seen the two of them together?

Happy

I think there may be some element of truth in your speculations. I was discussing this with my wife just this morning, how every cosmetic procedure he has had has made him look more female and more caucasian. I don't think either of us is in a position to guess as to why he does it or why he thinks sleeping in the same bed with children (even if there is no sexual contact) is OK.

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He's a Sick Freak, add two..............
Nov 19, 2003 9:50AM PST

FFs onto that name.

I haven't heard mention anwhere yet of when this latest "alleged" act happened.We don't know if it was last month,last year,5yrs ago,add infinitum.

If anyone would like to read the '93 complaint against this jerk,it's here: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/mjsearch1.html

Later,Tony

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Oops.............
Nov 19, 2003 10:00AM PST
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Re:Oops.............
Nov 19, 2003 10:09PM PST

Hi Tony:

One thing about the allegations in the '93 case struck me as odd. Michael Jackson has been a fanatic about protecting himself from germs for years (the surgical masks, etc.). At least two of the specific acts alleged don't jibe with that, know what I mean?

Also, if the alleged molestation occurred some time ago (the DA said the raid had originally been planned for several weeks ago but had to be postponed), the likelihood of recovering DNA evidence is probably slim to none.

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Re:Re:Oops.............
Nov 20, 2003 3:16AM PST

"DNA evidence is probably slim to none."

DNA evidence can be obtained and readable that is over 10 years old. (Ref: Cold Case Murder/Rape Files)

DNA evidence may be one, but I think the evidence that they are mainly looking for is video tapes.

JR

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Re:Re:Re:Oops.............
Nov 20, 2003 3:21AM PST

It can't be obtained if the sheets or whatever have been destroyed or otherwise disposed of, and apparently Michael has known for months that this thing was brewing.

So far he hasn't turned himself in....

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Re:Re:Re:Re:Oops.............
Nov 20, 2003 3:33AM PST

Yep, and what I kinda think is that there is probably 50-100 security cameras on the ranch, with some both video and still and/or the small 'pencil' type.

What is strange to me is that the arrest warrant allows him time to turn himself in, and from one report he was escorted by sheriffs deputies to the Las Vegas airport for take-off in his private jet to ??, and not arrested in Vegas.

??

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Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Oops.............
Nov 20, 2003 3:40AM PST

Well let's face it, with a face like that it wouldn't be easy to fly off somewhere and disappear by blending into the population.

Happy

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He just turned himself in
Nov 20, 2003 4:32AM PST

Breaking news on CNN.com, he's in police custody.

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Re:He's a Sick Freak, add two..............
Nov 19, 2003 10:01AM PST

I agree ... and the TV talking heads have been sanctimoniously critical of the smile on the sheriff's (or DA not sure which was which at the press conference) face. It is my impression that law enforcement felt totally f****d by the settlement in that '93 case, and they even saw fit to make prominent mention that the CA legislature changed the law about required testimony due to that debacle. I think this time the case is pretty good for them to be justifiably exhuberant over getting a sick "man" away from any he would hurt.

Honestly, I think he should be sequestered in a psyche ward for LIFE ... he should have been long ago. Traditional prison for him solves nothing, and quite frankly is not the solution for the other perverts of society either. But keep them away from potential victims, and restrict their activities w/o affording them rights free and non-criminals have to work for and I'ld be happy.

Evie Happy

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What has me really wondering
Nov 20, 2003 3:36AM PST

The publicity from past incidents have been news for a long time. Where was this mother ?? What parent in their right mind would take her child there. Sorry I don't want to be judgmental but there has to be some responsibility on her part.

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I don't think you're alone there!
Nov 20, 2003 3:41AM PST

There may have been a relationship that grew slowly because Jackson apparently sortof adopted the entire family and paid the medical bills. Desparate parents who can't afford medical care for their children might do things they would otherwise see clearly as "off" if not in that circumstance.

What were McCauly Culkin's parents thinking!

For MJ to say "if it's OK with your parents" in reference to kids ASKING to stay in his bedroom, that's just crazy. I'm not a parent, but I can't envision ANY situation where my kid requested of me to stay in "Uncle Jacko's" bedroom that I would even entertain the idea let alone not be immediately lecturing my child why they don't want to be going into the bedrooms of adult men!

Evie Happy

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An interesting "side development" ...
Nov 19, 2003 10:22PM PST

... that has been mentioned is that Anthony Pellicano (the oft called "investigator to the stars") was recently jailed on an illegal firearms possession charge with a drastically reduced sentence. The buzz is that he's singing up quite the storm, and of the many cases he is familiar with/involved in, he is certainly someone who knows more than a little about "where the bodies are buried" vis a vis Jackson. Will be interesting to watch.

I hope they find good homes for his children and they haven't been irreparably damaged by his bizarre lifestyle. His own words as regards sleepovers with unrelated children should be enough to make anyone's skin crawl IMO!

Evie Happy

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"What a revoltin' development this is!" (
Nov 20, 2003 2:17AM PST

Santa Barbara District Attorney Thomas W. Sneddon Jr. may have a strong urge to "get" Jacko after the past failure and the "song".

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,103485,00.html

".......a profile of Sneddon on the official Web site of the National District Attorneys Association mentions that "he's the only DA in the nation to have an angry song written about him by pop megastar Michael Jackson."
http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Music/11/19/jackson.prosecutor.reut/index.html

"Authorities released no details about the child or the time of the alleged molestation. A judge ordered affidavits in the case sealed for 45 days." However, my wife watched a NBC TV program this morning and supposedly the accuser is a angry mother who has had funds cut off ..... My search of NBC reveals a reference to Fox News and to the stories of a boy cancer patient helped by Michael.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,103557,00.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,103603,00.html

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Re:An interesting
Nov 20, 2003 11:01AM PST
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Re:Breaking: 12 y.o. boy raises allegations against Jacko ...
Nov 20, 2003 4:37AM PST

I'm listening to the radio while I'm supposed to be working. Jackson just arrived in handcuffs at the Santa Barbara Sheriffs office after arriving by private jet from Las Vegas. Apparently there was quite a caravan of vehicles from the airport. Jackson's PR people are already characterizing the family as gold diggers and claiming to have video from a couple of months ago where the family defends Michael's strange ways.

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One thing ...
Nov 20, 2003 4:51AM PST

... Judge Napolitano said in discussing this, is that this boy is under the age of consent. So even such a video saying the boy and/or his parents were OK with this, it wouldn't change the legality, or illegality, of the alleged actions because the kid was under the age of consent.

The differrence this time is that criminal charges are already on the table, and apparently the family has agreed not to sue Jackson civilly, or at least not until the outcome of the criminal trial is determined.

Evie Happy

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Don't forget the difference in the law this time
Nov 20, 2003 11:58AM PST

If I understood the reference on CNN at work other night, the law was changed after the last case was dismissed.

Now they supposely can require the victim to testify, not up to the victim to withdraw charges if a settlement is reached.

Sort of like most of time now if cops are called because of a domestic dispute, even by neighbors by what they overhear, and see any evidence of it, someone is going to be charged, no matter if the spouse will press charges or not.

roger

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I always wondered, Evie...
Nov 20, 2003 1:08PM PST

Evie, I always wondered how he ended up with the custody of his kids. That's not the norm, as there does not appear to be even joint custody, although I'll admit that I do not know the legal details of that situation.