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BRAC base closing list released

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15,000 out of Germany and Korea

In reply to: BRAC base closing list released

to be realigned.......I go along with that.

I don't understand the San Diego Medical decision...does that mean that Balboa Hospital will no longer accept military patients or does it mean that it will be privately owned instead and no longer run by the military department? I saw that the Financial and Accounting area in San Diego is also going to be closed rather than be realigned.

I didn't notice if Treasure Island near San Francisco and is a huge Naval Station had changes listed...must have skipped over it or it wasn't in the California list at all.

It appears that most of California's bases will actually gain rather than close or be realigned so evidently whatever is being changed in other states will be merged there. Wondering if the strategy for that is because that entire coastline is the most vulnerable to issues that might come from further West???

TONI

TONI

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I agree with....

In reply to: 15,000 out of Germany and Korea

....the Germany/Korea re-alignment. But the Overseas Commission cautioned that receiving bases, here and abroad, must have housing, schools, and medical facilities in place to receive them.

I don't know about Balboa. I do know that when other military hospitals have been closed, civilian ones accepted the military under a program (it used to be called CHAMPUS, but I don't know if it still is.) Closing them has a big impact on retirees, who often have trouble finding care within a reasonable distance.

The commission has been at work for a long time. I don't know about the coasts being favored (except for the Naval ships). Having seen the tanks at Ft. Bliss on maneuvers, it looks like it takes an awful lot of open land for that. Air bases need a lot of air space.

I watched all of the past hearings. Those commissioners will visit the bases on the list. Changes have been made before, and will again.

Ellsworth AFB in SD is the second largest employer in that state.

Angeline


click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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P.S. I just heard....

In reply to: I agree with....

... an analyst on TV say that now the biggest threat is seen to be from the west, thus the move from the east coast.

So your point was well taken.

Angeline


click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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Lots of land

In reply to: I agree with....

>>>>Having seen the tanks at Ft. Bliss on maneuvers, it looks like it takes an awful lot of open land for that. Air bases need a lot of air space.>>>>

Just a hop/skip to Arizona and Nevada which already has massive amounts of Federally owned land and there are quite a number of Marine and Army bases in California in addition to Air Force and Naval bases. There's also plenty of air space over the ocean for both of those latter branches for maneuvers...course, they would need to employ a larger number of air traffic controllers to keep them from crashing into one another with all the extra traffic. Coordination would be utmost.

Perhaps Derek will stay in California in some type of teaching position after all........if these changes take place....as it appears that California and western states will be gaining the most personnel as things are shuffled around.

From what I understand from the discussions that were going on this morning on CNN, the whole package would have to be accepted for the changes, because even one or two minor alterations to the list would be like a house of cards tumbling down on top of each other as the changes are dependent upon each other heavily.

TONI

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In the ones before....

In reply to: Lots of land

.... there were changes made before the list was sent to the Hill.

The Commission members haven't visited the sites yet. before what they saw resulted in changes. (They split up- don't all go to the same places.)

Hey- I forgot to say that the Navy needs a lot of water. Happy

Fighters need to train over land. I'm not sure about bombers. At the AF bases they have something like ''no fly zones''. Edwards AFB takes uip a lot of that desert land in Southern California.

What makes me nervous is so much going to private contractors. Bases that were repairing tanks, for instance, will close, and the job turned over to civilian contractors.

Angeline


click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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About ''no fly'' and land masses:

In reply to: In the ones before....

>At the AF bases they have something like ''no fly zones''. Edwards AFB takes up a lot of >that desert land in Southern California.

Airspace over all Air Force flying installations is restricted to some degree...

Four AF bases have a combined land mass equal to the 6 New England states (includes base owned training range areas): Edwards, Nellis AFB, Nevada, Hill AFB, Utah and Eglin AFB, Florida.

And yes, the figure for Nellis DOES include Area 51...]:)

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I forget....

In reply to: About ''no fly'' and land masses:

....what fighters my brother-in-law flew in Korea and Nam. Later, when we lived in Dallas, and he was based at Waco, he hated the drive to visit us in Dallas. "Heck, I start landing procedures over Dallas on my way back to base!" Wink

Angeline


click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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No fly and restricted fly zones in eastern NC

In reply to: In the ones before....

is bad enough so private planes have difficulty flying from Greenville NC to the coast. The courses necessary to avoid all the restrict fly zones ends up being longer than driving by car (hearsay, but seeing a map once, I believe it).

Some is necessary, but you have to wonder sometimes how much the military wants.

Disclaimer, there is a hotly disputed outlying landing field site near me right now and some of the "documents and speeches" of the Navy brass have soured me a bit.

JMO

Roger

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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Those....

In reply to: No fly and restricted fly zones in eastern NC

.... military planes fly very fast, Roger. When pilots are being trained, there is another plane in the air with the student. (At least that is how it was at Holloman AFB with the F-17ss -which are not as fast as some others). Even experienced pilots need so much flying time.

Just a guess, but it seems prudent to have as few private homes underneath them in case they go down. The planes are also doing maneuvers, and both they and general aviation planes could endanger each other.

They also need a safe place to practice bombing runs and other procedures.

Inconvenient for those living in and around your area, I'm sure.

Angeline


click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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The no fly zones have little to do with housing actually

In reply to: Those....

and the OLF is simply to allow new noiser Hornets due to be stationed in Virginia to practice touch and go landing/takeoff while reducing the noise complaints in Virginia.

There is talk of two (2) squadrons to go to Cherry Point NC, but TWELVE (12) to go to base near Norfolk Va.

Most of the noise, most of the fumes, are to be in NC, but almost 86% of the planes base (thats where the money flows, salaries and civilian jobs) are to be in Virginia. BTW, Virginia Senator Warner just happens to be Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, a panel on which he has served throughout his Senate career.

Murphey's Law version of the Golden Rule:

He who has the gold makes the rules.


Sigh, just politics as normal, no matter who the party, who benefits, or who loses.

I blame our state representatives less for not fighting the OLF than for being so afraid of BRAC and losing military dollars (which admittedly are huge source of income and economy in NC) that they didn't even try to get equal numbers of planes (and money therefrom) while accepting the noise, pollution, and danger of the OLF.

JMO

Roger

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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Hmmm....and Korea.....

In reply to: 15,000 out of Germany and Korea

Haven't had time to review yet, been so busy......BUT...I spent some time in Korea while in the military , and S. Korea has done wonderful in making cars and other goods for the US and the world, so maybe our efforts in fighting in Korea has paid off. N. Korea with the threat of their missiles is something else that maybe the diplomats can handle and let some of our troops come home.

Gads! We are loosing the rehab of armor of our Hummers at the Army Depot in Texarkana(s).

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(NT) (NT) Time for CT's Dem Senators to get busy!

In reply to: BRAC base closing list released

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Maybe not, Evie.

In reply to: (NT) Time for CT's Dem Senators to get busy!

As for the CT reserve center closings, see my reply to DK in this thread.

As for the New London sub base: The number of U.S. attack subs has declined from 96 in 1990 to 56 today; ballistic missile subs now number 18, down from 32 in 1990.

Now we can argue whether the present force numbers are sufficient; I for one would argue that the number of attack subs is far too small, especially given the reality that the People's Republic of China is now making moves towards deploying a true "blue water" navy capable of extended deployment.

However, given the present force structure, we have far more basing capacity than we have subs to base, and will have such for the foreseeable future.

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On the fence on this myself ...

In reply to: Maybe not, Evie.

... but I do worry that we not repeat the over-exhuberance of the immediate post-Cold War era. The threat from Korea and China is very ''pre-9/11'' if one wants to characterize it as such.

I was actually surprised how few jobs are projected to be lost in the area as a result -- wondering if that is just the base itself Sad I believe Bush's recent idea of locating refineries on bases would be a viable alternative but doubtful that would go over without a fight!

IAC, the voters of CT have continually returned Chris Dodd presumably for his clout in Washington. On matters of defense, Lieberman is more hawk than many NE Republicans. Any time Dodd might spend doing something for his home state is time spent away from making racially charged comments that go unnoticed Wink

How sad a legacy, IMO, that the last christened sub out of Groton might just have been the Jimmy Carter Sad

Evie Happy

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Why all the reserve center closings?

In reply to: BRAC base closing list released

Hi, Angeline.

It seems particularly odd at a time when the Army is Especially at a time when they're offering a new enlistment program with 15 months active service followed by almost seven years in the Guard or Reserves: Army offers 15-month hitch.
Sounds like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing!

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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DaveK,, those will...

In reply to: Why all the reserve center closings?

... be re-aligned with other Reserve/Guard Centers, I am sure. It probably doesn't cost that much more to run a large center as a small one.

Angeline


click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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Why the Reserve center closings? Consolidation, Dave!

In reply to: Why all the reserve center closings?

To elaborate on Angeline's answer to you: It's actually cheaper to consolidate Reserve functions at fewer, larger facilities. At present, fully 50 percent of Guard/Reserve personnel have to travel at least 4 hours to report to their units of assignment, so they aren't affected that much; what is moving are the support, personnel, finance and accounting functions that are best consolidated anyway.

This is the rationale behind all the closings of regional Defense Finance and Accounting Service centers; for example, the DFAS facility here in Indianapolis will gain some 3,500 positions as a result - in a building that's now only 70 percent occupied and which was renovated in 2002.

One Indiana closing that'll displease no one: Newport Army Depot in west-central Indiana, as soon as they finish the chemical destruction of its stockpile of 1,200 tons of VX nerve agent - a process that started last week.

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travel time?

In reply to: Why the Reserve center closings? Consolidation, Dave!

At present, fully 50 percent of Guard/Reserve personnel have to travel at least 4 hours to report to their units of assignment, so they aren't affected that much; what is moving are the support, personnel, finance and accounting functions that are best consolidated anyway.


Without knowing or understanding where exactly each of those now training at a closing reserve center will have to go, I may be wrong, BUT it seems likely to me that with less centers, more will travel farther. And we'll see even less interest in the reserves than present.

We're already making the reserves unattractive by repeated rollouts instead of occasionaly unusual need. If the policy of leaner and more mobile continues, with the associated more use of reserves more often, I foresee a drop in reserve re-enlistment that will make any attrition due to the Iraq war (in itself) look like nothing.

Fewer people are going to be willing to remain in the reserves if they're expecting to have to leave a job, or their own business, every 10 years or less. It used to be a perhaps once in a career proposal (active combat/conflict service). I'm afraid that in trying to 'outsource' primary military talents, abilities, and support to reserves and civilians we're seriously weakening the fewer full time forces we have left.

The end of the cold war left all too complacent and willing to cut the standing military. ALL.

JMO

Roger

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
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Your points are well taken, Roger,...

In reply to: travel time?

...however, I was simply addressing the fact that for mose Reserve component personnel, this won't be a major problem.

The real issue in all this remains whether civilian sector employers will remain supportive of their Guard/Reserve employees. My guess is that they will not - and that will drive the exodus from the Reserve components far more than any hardships that Guard/Reserve membership will entail.

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