boya84's help needed PLZ! I need a camcorder fast! PLZ

I'm still not sure on what kind of camcorder I should buy. It seems to me that you still do not recommend a HDD camcorder? true? As far as high definition goes, do you really recommend me to increase my budget to maybe $600 - $700 range to actually get one? Is it worth it? I'm sorry, I really can't make up my mind. I really want a good decent camcorder to last me through college years nd possibly couple of more years after graduation, so roughly 5 - 6 years. Can you please help?
I read somewhere that miniDV camcorders are being phased out? Is this true? I don't want to get a camcorder that in couple of years no one will use?
As far as flash camcorders, What's the difference between flash and HDD? Isn't it almost the same thing? Does flash use "memory cards" and HDD obviously uses hard drive? Does flash drive also uses that AVCHD technology, which I read will causes quality loss?

I just bought a hp dv4-1140go laptop, with 320 GB of hard drive, 4 GB of ram, but only 2.0 GHZ. It does have expansion slot (PCMCIA and ExpressCard), so I can do the firewire expansion. I am also planning on using my desktop in college, which is a 2.6 GHZ dell, so if there is some computing intensive editing or processing, I might be able to do it on my desktop (but then again, it doesn't have a DVD burner, but my laptop does).
I also have a sony digital cybershot camera, and I bought a 2 GB memory stick, so I was thinking, maybe I can use it with a camcorder, if it turns out to be a sony, that uses a memory stick. Good idea or not so good idea, since it is only a 2.0 GB?
Also, as far as DVD burning that you mentioned, I can't use a regular 4.7 GB DVD to get my videos on them? If not, what kind of DVDs do I have to buy for burning? I thought those were the only ones!

are OK, so that helps.

A 2 gig memory stick from your CyberShot *might* be used with Sony camcorders, but won't buy much video record time. And they may require the higher-end Memory Stick Pro cards because they write faster. I would stay in the realm of DSC/DSLR for stills and camcorder for video.

I did not say you cannot use the 4.7 gig DVD blank - I merely indicated that if you want to copy the video data files, you will be using a LOT of single layer discs. It is likely that DVD burner in the laptop can only burn to the 4.7 gig single layer discs... some DVD burners can use the double layer 8.5 gig blanks... But at the 14 gig or 44 gig computer hard drive space per hour of imported DV/HDV, you could be burning a lot of blanks - and if you go to the DVD authoring application method, VOB file format (up to 120 minutes of standard def on a 4.7 gig single layer or up to 120 minutes of standard def on a 8.5 gig double layer) you will lose a lot of quality if you want to edit later.

If you want MORE space than these provide, then you are moving into the world of BluRay - I think the blanks start at 25 gig (the drives seem affordable enough, but the blanks are fairly pricey - I guess at the $/gig level, they aren't too bad).

I used to be an IT manager. I spent WAY too much time working to recover data from hard drives or sending them to DriveSavers (they do a great job, by the way). On top of that, the whole archive process for video from HDD camcorders is just foreign to me. I know there are others on this board who think they are great. I think they have a place - limited to when you must have a long record time. If the hard drive cannot be accessed - this could be a result of a hard drive crash or the camcorder breaks, getting to that data can be a challenge. If you have not transferred the video files and the camcorder is stolen, then you could be out multiple hours of video.

With flash memory and miniDV tape, that removable memory is handy for several reasons. With miniDV tape, don't re-use the tape. It is the archive. No extra step to make an archive copy. Typically, if the camera is broken, just get the tape out and use another camcorder - same with flash memory. Though flash memory has archive issues similar to HDD cams - flash memory is not a stable, long term, archive media. If the camcorder is stolen, you might be out the single tape or single memory card... but the others will be safe and you need only get a compatible camcorder to read that media. With flash memory, you can even ski the replacement camcorder and use a cheap card reader.

It may be possible that at the consumer level, miniDV tape is being "phased out". If it is replaced by anything, it will likely be flash memory. Perhaps even direct wireless connection to the server far in the cloud. I cannot see 10 or 15 years into the future. But 10-15 years ago, VHS started going away. You can still buy VHS decks to play VHS tape. You can still buy VHS tape. 10-15 years is much longer than the "couple of years". And as long as the pros keep using miniDV tape (reference the Sony HVR series, Canon XH and XLH series, JVC GY series), there will be tape transfer methods available. Many local stations still use Beta. The only manufacturer to be a little further ahead on this is Panasonic. The have flash memory cams in their AVCAM pro series that uses AVCHD with a higher bitrate than the anemic consumer AVCHD bitrate. That said, their P2 card flash memory pro cams continue to do DV and HDV (and DVCPRO and DVCPRO HD).

The file formats flash memory (yes - memory cards, Canon uses SD cards) and hard disc drive camcorders write to (excluding the little pocket cams) are basically the same, so their video quality is the same. Highly compressed MPEG2 files that many times need to be converted before editing - or AVCHD files. Not as good as miniDV tape based camcorders with similar pricing and functionality, but well ahead of standard definition DVD based camcorders.

The "quality loss" in AVCHD is not that huge - but it makes enough difference to me... video compression = discarded video data = reduced video quality. To be fair, DV and HDV also compress the video - just not as much as the other formats.

I can't know what you will deem as "worth it" to move to high definition. The difference between it and standard def is HD has 4x more data - that's why it is so crisp. On a close up, it can mean the difference of seeing someone's face or seeing their pores and wrinkles, too. Or seeing a flower vs seeing the pollen sacks at the end of the stamen. So your question is up there with a lot of what we are seeing in our economy on anything you might consider purchasing - if you can afford it, get it - if not, don't.

and checked out FS10, FS100, and FS11. I couldn't figure out why one was more expensive than the other, except the fact that one of them has 16 GB internal memory (is it like a hard drive?), the other has 8 GB, and the last one has none. So, if I were to get these, how many SD cards would you recommend me to get? Can I reuse the SD cards to save money? I looked at a 64 GB (four 16 GB) SD card for about 100 dollars; it is very expensive and is gonna blow my budget. Since these are standard and not high definition, would a 16 GB SD card hold only about roughly more than hour of video for me? Thanks so much for your response!

I suggested cheap miniDV tape, remember? Yes, flash memory is more expensive than miniDV tape. No, flash memory is not an archival media (same issue with HDD). Flash memory uses the same file type storage as HDD.

Canon ZR900, ZR930, ZR960...

Please keep in mind these (and the FS series and pretty much any camcorder from any manufacturer under about $1,200) are consumer grade - so small lenses and small imaging chips. I alert you only because you really need to stay away from low-light environments and take extra care when shooting indoors.

If you like the FS series, I would go with the one without any built-in memory. For storage time, check the canon.com product page for the camcorder - downloads... the memory record times are in the camcorder manual.

I am thinking about the Canon FS100, so with no internal memory, just like you suggested. It is on sale for 349.99 instead of $399.99 at bestbuy right now. Is that a good choice?
Also, what do you think of the "package deals" that places like bestbuy offer? They give an extra battery and a case for about 80 dollars, instead of getting them separetely for about $100. Would I need the extra batteries anyways? How long do these batteries last on a highest quality setting? My research has been inconclusive, so it's really frustrating.
Lastly, I am thinking about buying two 8 GB of SDHC for total of 16 GB. Is that enough? The canon site says that at highest quality, an 8 GB gives about an hour and 50 minutes of recording. So, both of them should be about 3 hours and 40 minutes at highest quality. Therre are three settings: XP, SP, and the lowest quality, which is LP. Should I avoid the lowest quality, LP, and use the other two settings?
Thank you sooooooooooooooo much!

I think the extra battery and case are a good idea and look to be an acceptable "deal".

Battery life is in the manual (I *know* you have downloaded it and read through it), but for everyone else's benefit
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=2544&modelid=16185#DownloadDetailAct
The Drivers and Downloads tab. See page 100. "Actual times may vary". While you are at it, be sure you are getting the appropriate SD cards on page 29. I would stay with best quality as much as possible... Lower quality allows more video time on the cards by compressing the video - you already know my opinion of video compression. Also, you *could* always buy more cards - we don't have the lock on consumerism...

And a tripod or monopod would be handy...

archive this video how?

I bought a Canon FS100 a few months ago. Here are some of my experiences.

I bought a class 6 16G SDHC (yes you need SDHC min class 2). It will hold about 5-1/2 hours of standard quality video. The SD card cost my CAD70 at the time but it should be about half by now. If you archive your video daily, you should need only one as a bare minimum. I would prefer another 8G as backup.

Canon comes along a cd that has a program which will convert the recorded file (in a .MOD format which is basically MPEG2) into mpeg2 when you transfer your file from your FS100 onto your computer (USB2 and READ THE MANUAL, very important).

The battery will be good for about 2-1/2 hours recording from full charge; and charging can be done by directly plugging the transformer into the dc jack. Most people don't really need to record more than 2 hours of video every day, I think.

The camcorder is very light because it does not have any moving parts other than the lens motor. So holding it steady will need a bit practice. However it also means that you can use it by holding for a fairly long time. And because there is bare minimum moving part, there is virtually no internal noise appeared in you recordings.

Unfortunately for picture quality it is not very great while still be acceptable to me. Remember this is only a entry level machine and how much you paid for it. The 37X optical zoom is very handy. Low light condition is not very good but again you get what you paid for. I find the picture quality better than I expected when the video is burnt as a dvd and played on tv.

For video editing you may consider Sony Vegas movie studio which is only CAD99 here in Canada. It is a crippled version from the more professional Vegas 8.

Hope this will help you.

OK, Since the date of my flight is fast approaching, I'm going to go ahead and buy this camera tomorrow,unless you adivse me not to?
Unfortunately, for the money that I am going to pay that is basically what I'm gonna get. I read how people are not happy with the video quality of that camera, but what can I do? I wish the hard drive cameras did not have the possibility of failing. They would have saved me some money, since I didn't need to pay for the memory cards as well as they would have provided me with alot more capacity than with this flash memory. I would only be able to get 16 GB of memory cards for about 50 dollars. BTW, would a DVD camcorder be better than this camcorder?
As far as archiving, you are completey correct. I don't think I can really do the true archiving that is possible with miniDV camocrders, but then again I'm really helpless in that area as well.
I just hope that after I get through school, I would be able to get a much better camera, but then again I would be in debt in hundreds of thousands in loan. But, by then I would at least have had the opportunity to do some editing and learn. BTW, what would be a good way to go about that, if you are like me and a novice who has never don editing?

When you say 5 hours of standdard video on the 16 GB, do you mean SP, since SP is the middle one of the three options that canon has? XP, SP, LP(Lowest quality)?
As far as the memory cards, Bestbuy is offering a sale on 8 GB of SDHC at 25 bucks each. Is that a good deal or not such a great one? Would I be OK with only the 16 GB for now?
How easy was the file conversion and the transfer to the computer? I?m a novice who has never done that before and has never done editing. Would I have too much problem? How long do I need to dedicate to reading the manual to at least get started and do some basic stuff?
I agree with you on being able to hold the camera steady. I tried playing with it at the local store and I had trouble holding it steady for some reason, which is not good, but I?m hoping it won?t be a big problem.
Thanks again!

Hard drive camcorders have a chance of failing similar to other camcorders - mabe a little greater, but not by much. The key is recovering out of that failure - Removable media is more forgiving.

With your budget and other requirements, the only way you would see improvement in video quality will be jumping into bigger lenses and imaging chips.

DVD camcorders are painful to edit. In standard definition, the VOB files are hugely compressed and quality for editing can be very poor due to the compression. For high definition files, they are the highly compressed AVCHD files - and we already know they can cause pain.

I am still on the page of miniDV first choice and flash memory second choice... but that's just me. I will not advise you not to buy the FS100. It will be fine when used within its limitations. This is the same with any equipment - whether camcorder or not.

There is another option... if the item is not affordable, don't get it. Personally, to be in debt hundreds of thousands of dollars on a student loan, I consider a camcorder is frivolous.