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Question

bootmgr missing - Need help fixing hard drive

Sep 11, 2017 8:30PM PDT

My desktop PC has a 1TB Seagate Barracuda hard drive. Its separated into 3 partitions: #1 is System Reserved (100MB), #2 contains all the system files, and #3 is for personal files. The #2 partition is my C: drive and the #3 partition is my D: drive. The #1 partition does not appear in Explorer. A few days ago, I noticed the warning that my C: drive was nearing capacity. Then, it stopped booting properly. I was able to hit F8 and access the command prompt. After doing some research, it was suggested I set the #2 partition to "Active" which I did using the command prompt, and now it doesn't boot at all. I get the Bootmgr is missing screen and all I can do is access the BIOS screen. I pulled the drive from the desktop PC and have been able to access it as an external drive on my laptop. As an external drive, it appears as 3 separately labeled drives: #2 shows as the Active partition, which I believe is correct. The #1 and #2 partitions currently show <4MB of remaining space. I'm afraid to delete anything from those since I am not too familiar with those partitions, but I'm wondering if that is causing some issues. The #3 partition is 1/3 used. The #2 partition does have the Windows folder with a Boot subfolder. Is there something I can do to this drive while connected to my laptop that will fix my problem? Is it possible its getting ready to die, or do I need to create some additional space in the #1 and #2 partitions? Any assistance is much appreciated. I do not have a Windows 7 recovery disc or boot disc. Thanks!

Discussion is locked

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Answer
You have to have the W7 DVD to do most repairs.
Sep 11, 2017 8:35PM PDT

I can't guess why you don't have this or if you can go get it from https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows7

It's a laptop so is the story about opting out of restore media? If so, order it now. And here it's never a problem since we took the entire office from w7 to w10. This way we can get an install stick anytime we wish without the CD KEY requirement.

Last week we used the last change W10 upgrade to catch up on a laggard employee.

That said, you could try EASYRE from https://neosmart.net/wiki/easyre/

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Can I get it onto a flash drive?
Sep 11, 2017 9:00PM PDT

Since my desktop is out of commission, it looks like I can put it on a flash drive since my laptop doesn't have a cd/dvd drive. How do I get the 25 digit product key? My laptop and desktop came with Windows installed. Do I have to search for the paperwork that came with it or can I pull the product key off the laptop somehow? Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "opting out of restore media"? The hard drive issue is with my desktop, not my laptop. I am simply using my laptop to view the hard drive that I pulled from my desktop. I have a windows 10 upgrade disc, so if I can get this windows 7 machine back up and running, maybe I should bite the bullet and upgrade it. Thanks!

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The W10 upgrade
Sep 11, 2017 9:04PM PDT

Is done while the w7 is running otherwise money. As to the product key, now that we know it was pre-installed, Microsoft will not give you a copy. That comes from the laptop maker. It's really a shame folk pass up the move to W10 as I can give you the how to create the install media and there is no key required.

So exits are to order restore media or try EasyRE. I don't think you are asking me about EasyRE since the link wrote "EasyRE can be downloaded on any PC or Mac, then burned onto a CD or USB."

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I was hoping to be able to...
Sep 11, 2017 9:50PM PDT

...fix the hard drive using the laptop. I figured something just got misplaced or the boot partition is full and needed to be cleaned up or something. I believe I have the Professional version of Windows 7, so it looks like $40 to purchase EasyRE. If it works, I suppose its worth it. So, even though I have a legitimate copy of Windows 7, I can't create a boot disk? Would there be a product key somewhere in the computer box or paperwork? I have the box to my laptop somewhere.

I've been putting off the upgrade to W10 since my family is so used to W7 and I've seen W10 and it looks more complicated. I guess my plan now is to either wait and see if someone has a cheaper/easier solution, or get EasyRE and see if I can get it to work. Its late now so I'm probably waiting until tomorrow any way. Luckily, I was able to copy all my files from the hard drive. I have a backup, but I recently added a ton of photos which hadn't been backed up yet. I'm just glad I was able to recover them. Thanks R. Proffitt!

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Windows 7 Product Key..
Sep 11, 2017 10:16PM PDT

Is on the bottom of my laptop. Granted, its not the product key for the desktop, but are the boot disks the same? Does it matter? Will I be able to create the boot image on a USB flash drive using the product key from the laptop, and use it to repair my desktop? Thanks!

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Re: product key
Sep 12, 2017 12:28AM PDT

Doubtful.

I'd start with downloading the Windows 7 iso from the link Bob gave and boot from it on your desktop. Then see if Startup Repair works. You don't need a license key then. Or see if you can use diskpart from the command prompt to undo the active setting you made.Or delete some files of the c:-drive, for example in c:\windows\temp, or the folders in Program Files from a few big programs (like MS Office) that you can easily reinstall and see if it boots then with more space available.

To do a clean reinstall you most likely need the original license key from the desktop. That's on the original disc.

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Here we moved the entire office and homes to W10.
Sep 12, 2017 6:26AM PDT

There were many reasons but mostly because our apps must work on machines folk buy now. W7/Vista/W8 is all tested out and we didn't find W10 to be any harder to use.

I mean, Chrome works the same on all these (and Linux too.)

The real payoff for W10 for us came when a few clients had crashed the OS (no one will write you can't break Linux, Windows, etc.) and we used the Microsoft Media Creation Kit to make the restore/repair/install USB stick. W10's repair facilities are a decade ahead of W7.

Anyhow, let's hope either the W7 DVD/USB or EasyRe pulls it back.

I wasn't going to write this but the tinkering with the partitions looks to be bad advice by someone. When I get low disk space like that I simply booted up Safe Mode and cleaned up or if Windows would not boot due to low space I would boot up a Linux to do the work.
Some call that advanced but I shared that tip years ago at http://tips.oncomputers.info/archives2004/0401/2004-Jan-11.htm where they found out "It's not as hard as we thought."

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What version of W7 do I have?
Sep 11, 2017 10:19PM PDT

I forgot another question. If I do go the EasyRE route, can I use the desktop's hard drive to tell me exactly what version of Windows 7 I have on there? I'm not sure if it's Home Premium or Professional. I guess I have to know the specific version when purchasing EasyRE. I'm hoping it can be found on the hard drive somewhere? Thanks!

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Recovery
Sep 12, 2017 1:40AM PDT

Look in your desktop manual and see if it talks about system recovery/restore.
With luck you have a restore partition.

Look on the desktop maker's site and see if you can download or buy the recovery media.

Never run one of these machines without a backup.

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Answer
Only one active partition allowed in windows
Sep 12, 2017 7:51AM PDT
"After doing some research, it was suggested I set the #2 partition to "Active" which I did using the command prompt, and now it doesn't boot at all. I get the Bootmgr is missing screen and all I can do is access the BIOS screen."

You may have had a hard drive problem first that prompted the system asking to set partition #2 as active. Since you can only have ONE active partition in windows system, and #2 is where your windows folder was already, then you probably suffered some sort of data corruption or a sector loss on the hard drive that lead to it being "non active". It is a Seagate drive and I don't know what year, it would be on the hard drive itself, but many Seagate drives have had problems in past few years.

See this image;
http://media.gamersnexus.net/images/media/2014/news/blog-fail-drives-manufacture.jpg

http://www.online-tech-tips.com/computer-tips/set-active-partition-vista-xp/

1) A logical drive or extended partition cannot be marked as active, only primary partitions can be changed to active.
2) You can only have one active partition per physical hard disk. Trying to do otherwise will cause all kinds of problems.
3) If you have several physical hard disks on your computer, you can mark a partition as active on each disk, but only the active partition on the first hard disk detected by your BIOS will start up the computer. You can go into the BIOS and change the order to detect hard disks.



https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/315261/the-computer-does-not-start-after-you-change-the-active-partition-by-u
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I agree with this. Hope they can undo.
Sep 12, 2017 8:00AM PDT

Undo, undo, undo.

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Answer
Try this first
Sep 12, 2017 7:59AM PDT

Hook to the laptop as external again, then when it shows the #2 as active partition on the drive, set the #1 partition back to Active instead. Put in desktop and boot up.

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Ok, that worked, a little...
Sep 12, 2017 8:44AM PDT

I set the #1 partition to Active and it looks like I'm back to where I was originally, which is a step in the right direction. So the desktop starts to boot and ends up running Startup Repair, which basically results in "Windows cannot repair this computer automatically". This is where I was a few days ago. I can, however, access the Recovery options screen. The issue I had with this before is, I tried to use System Restore, which is one of the options. I have a recent restore point, but when I get to the "confirm" screen, it says Local Disk C: = There is not enough free space to restore the disk. Remember, C: is partition #2 with all the system files. There is <4MB of space remaining. I deleted the temp folder, but other than that, I wasn't sure how to free up space. I tried increasing the partition size, but it said it would change the drive to dynamic, so I opted out. I have plenty of space on the drive, just not in the #2 partition. Any ideas what I should try next? Should I delete some Program folders for software I don't use or need? Thanks!

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IF
Sep 12, 2017 8:55AM PDT

If the cause is what you noted up top about the lack of disk space, any good bootable OS will let you get in and copy out what videos or such that you can remove to free up space.

That's covered in many discussions (nod to my old advice at https://www.cnet.com/forums/post/ca6d1e83-bce3-4af6-ad89-47c3d1d53611/ ) You can use any of the bootable OSes to get there.

I've even used my W10 USB install stick to boot and get to the W10 command prompt to chkdsk /f /r /x the C drive as well as clean up. However this may not let me copy stuff out since USB support is not assured.

DELETING PROGRAM FOLDERS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. Why? If something is in a startup item and you delete the folder, you may break it real good.

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Lack of Space is on System Partition Only
Sep 12, 2017 9:20AM PDT

As mentioned, the hard drive has plenty of space, its just the System Partition that is full. The partition that I use for personal stuff (photos, videos, documents, etc) is only 1/3 used. I actually removed quite a bit of stuff out of that partition already. I do have access to the Command Prompt now, so I wondering if I can somehow make some extra space of the System Partition. I tried running defrag from the Command Prompt, but its telling me that 'Defrag' is not recognized as an internal or external command. Any more ideas to free up some space on the system partition are welcomed. Thanks!

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GParted
Sep 12, 2017 9:37AM PDT

I would make a backup of all files on the #3 partition first. If you run the Linux Mint I suggested from LIVE DVD, it has GParted on it. That program will allow you to first shrink the third partition, and then you can extend the second partition to the right toward the third partition, giving the second one the added space you want.

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Want to learn more about this...
Sep 12, 2017 10:31AM PDT

Thanks James. From the Windows 7 Disk Manager, I was previously able to shrink the #3 Partition, but when I went to increase the #2, it said the disk would change to "Dynamic" which I heard is a bad idea. Your suggesting I download Linux Mint, which has a tool (GParted) that will allow me to expand the #2 partition without changing it to Dynamic? I'm not sure what you mean by LIVE DVD. The only working DVD burner I have is in my desktop, which is the problem PC at the moment. Can I boot from USB? Or, is there a way to do this when I connect the drive to the laptop without changing it to Dynamic? Thanks again!

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Before you do anything else.
Sep 12, 2017 10:42AM PDT

I take it you have a full copy of this on another drive (clone!) ?

If not I worry such changes will only make this worse.

At least you had a chance to backup your files and won't complain if it melts down and you have to order restore media.

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GPARTED will extend without requiring Dynamic Disk
Sep 12, 2017 10:43AM PDT

I can fully manipulate standard partitions.

That said, why would you want to avoid Dynamic Disk? IN Linux I use a Logical Volume Manager and not had any problems with it, which is about the same if not exactly the same as windows dynamic disk. In Linux I can have standard partitions and the LVM with other "volumes" in it at the same time. Maybe Windows can do one or the other and not mix them?

https://support.wdc.com/knowledgebase/answer.aspx?ID=282

https://www.partitionwizard.com/help/what-are-basic-and-dynamic-disks.html

https://www.partitionwizard.com/dynamicdisk/dynamic-disk.html

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I worry they are playing with the system hidden partitions.
Sep 12, 2017 10:45AM PDT

Let's hope they are talking old drive C and not something else.

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Hopefully
Sep 12, 2017 10:58AM PDT

That will show up on GParted graphical display, if he can post an image of what it finds, or run the parted -l (small L) in terminal and post that readout.

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One thing's certain
Sep 12, 2017 11:35AM PDT

He better leave partiton #1 alone, that's where his bootloader obviously is, since it's the "active" partition. Does W7 do this on all installs? I don't remember it doing that when I put on my wife's computer, although that was an upgrade 32 bit version.

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I made space
Sep 12, 2017 11:16AM PDT

Apparently there were some media files in the #2 partition that I was able to delete. As a result, I was able to run System Restore, but now is telling me that my restore point from 08/30/2017 is no longer available. Apparently, it was in the temp folder that I cleared out??? OMG!!!

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LOL, just make a new one
Sep 12, 2017 11:21AM PDT

Since it seems you are back up and running OK with it. Make a new one every month from now on too. You can always remove the old restore points as they fall further behind.

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Not back up and running
Sep 12, 2017 11:29AM PDT

Still stuck at System Recovery. I am guessing that, while deleting temp files, etc I deleted my restore points. This sucks. I just tried to restore all the files I deleted from the Temp folder, but it still didn't work.

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Maybe time to consider
Sep 12, 2017 11:39AM PDT

that your HDD is failing and some now unobtainable system files were lost because of it. If this was a retail copy of Windows 7, I'd tell you to do a "dirty install" over top of it, but if it's an OEM version, that's up the creek with no paddle and a hole in the boat.

Considered W10?

Hope you have a backup you can save all your personal files to first.

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In regards to Maybe time to consider
Sep 12, 2017 11:48AM PDT

It's a shame they didn't make backups, have restore media and so on. They could have other non-cost fixes but now as it stands they are looking atL

1. EasyRE. I'm unsure if that was tried but the tinkering with active this, partition size changes, deletes may have removed that option.
2. Restore Media from the maker. These are getting rare as time passes.

My office and home moved everything to W10 as I found keeping track was taking too much time. Like for that Clmpay laptop, do we have restore media. Now try keeping track of some hundred models. With W10 we can use the one USB stick to fix and maybe clean install across the enterprise. And with digital entitlement we are not logging CD Keys any longer. This is great.

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You described similar to why I moved to Linux
Sep 12, 2017 11:58AM PDT
"With W10 we can use the one USB stick to fix and maybe clean install across the enterprise. And with digital entitlement we are not logging CD Keys any longer. This is great."

I can use a LIVE DVD or USB, it works to fix all computers that runs Linux, and no Product Keys or Codes to enter. Added benefit is it's FREE, although I make DONATIONS, and in a pinch, the LIVE DVD or USB can run for me until I make any repair of HDD install (rarely needed). I've always hated tracking down the Product Key, doing the Activation and then having Genuine Advantage screwing it up unjustifiably.
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From memory System recovery
Sep 12, 2017 11:41AM PDT

Doesn't use restore points. Here's a tech article on System Recovery.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/17101/windows-7-system-recovery-options

But did you notice there is no "System Recovery"?

-> HERE'S A THING. I noted that Norton and other antivirus suite break system restore and maybe a few other repair tools.

And it's HORRIBLY BROKEN. Proof? https://support.norton.com/sp/en/us/home/current/solutions/v51118464_EndUserProfile_en_us

What kind of help is that if you need System Restore to bring back a dead PC?

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Here's where I'm at
Sep 12, 2017 12:31PM PDT

It appears system restore points are not stored in the temp folder, so I probably didn't delete any, but for some reason it was showing the latest restore point from 08/30/17 and now all my restore points are gone. Apparently, they are stored in 'System Volume Information' folders. I have these folders in partitions #1 and #2 and they cannot be accessed. I was hoping this would be my saving grace, but apparently not. At this point, I have all my personal files saved except for emails, which I'll have to figure that out later, but I guess my decision at this point is, do I try the EasyRE product and see if I can get it booted, or just wipe it and purchase W10. Anyone know where I should purchase W10 if I go that route? Seems prices vary quite a bit from different sources. Thanks!