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General discussion

Book: "Invasion" by Michelle Malkin

Apr 24, 2006 4:56AM PDT

After someone posted a link to her site, a book caught my eye -- Invasion.

It didn't take long for it to affect the way I thought about illegals. Though I had previously considered the amnesty for illegals due to the impracticality of sending them all back, I soon changed my mind. We have a de facto amnesty program, now. The 'catch and release' program should be abandoned. The INS needs to be disbanded or taken over by the FBI. The Congress and the Senate needs to quit listening to the lobbies (and there are a lot of powerful lobbies!!!) who are interested more in money and efficiency than in security. And, needless to say, my position is opposed to Bush's idea of amnesty; I think he is mistaken.

Malkin has named names, quoted quotes, and documented a lot of bad things. We have captured and set free known killers, many times. This is not acceptable, especially since 9/11. Mexicans aren't the only ones crossing the borders.

I think someone made this point: Who knows how many illegals are in this country? Nobody. "They" throw up an arbitrary figure based upon thin air for all I know which could be far less than the actual number. How many of those are criminals? Nobody knows that, either...well, aside from the fact that they are all criminals by the very fact that they are here illegally with the help of Americans who are supposed to be in charge of keeping them out.

I am more disgusted now than I've ever been, and I've only read a 100+ pages of the book.

Discussion is locked

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I agree with you........
Apr 24, 2006 5:03AM PDT

Amnesty does nothing to help the situation, all it does is tell the illegal if they wait long enough they are free and clearSad

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It is Mexico's policy to encourage illegals
Apr 24, 2006 5:19AM PDT

coming into this country. They are given material helping them to cross the border along with instructions on what to do once they've arrived. Fox has said, in an official capacity, that by the year 2035, all borders will have completely disappeared (my paraphrase). Of course, in the mean time, he is vigorously defending his southern border...

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Consider the source, and try reading more widely
Apr 24, 2006 6:06AM PDT

It was a "gimme" that Michelle Malkin would be against the situation her President did nothing to stem for the last 6 years. Remember she's a Party hack in Jornalists clothing. Try finding a "fairer and somewhat more balanced source".

Are you willing to fund a sufficiently impermeable border? That means two walls 20 feet apart going down to bedrock and 20 feet high with hooks facing towards Mexico. Could be a bit pricey.

Rob

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Fairer and somewhat balanced
Apr 24, 2006 6:12AM PDT

This coming from someone who really has no say or interest in this country.

Tom

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Yeah, right, "No say," just a vote, and property and familiy
Apr 24, 2006 9:56AM PDT

and taxes and 40 years of my life from birth on. Perhaps good manners would help you in dealing with a fellow countryman despite my current residence in Canada.

Rob Boyter.

Rob

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Sorry, you're not a fellow countryman
Apr 24, 2006 9:59AM PDT

I hope they change the law. Once you became a Canadian citizen you should lose your vote in our elections. More's the pity that's not the case now.

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This is funny, that NOW........
Apr 24, 2006 10:01AM PDT

He claims to be an American! After all the times he has said how glad he is to be Canadian! I wish he would make up his mind where his loyalties lieSad

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The other Bobbsey twin heard from. I have expressed my
Apr 24, 2006 10:40AM PDT

somewhat surprised pleasure at living here. I have said that I think there are things the US could learn, not just from Canada but from every other civilized democracy, ie. Health Care, social assistance and a number of other things.

It took me at least 2 years to get comfortable here; I grew up with the same prejudices everybody at the forum has, and just as convinced that there was no where as good as the good old USA. Well it turns out that there are some places just as good. It turns out that you don't have to have the crime rate like the good old USofA in order to live in a place almost as good. But you do have to pay taxes to live there.

Now if low taxes is how you judge quality of life, then great. Buy a gun and protect your property day and night. But if there are other things, like wandering the streets at 3AM as we did when my wife couldn't sleep when she was pregnant, or taking American friends to see Shakespeare in High Park and then wandering out in pitch dark enjoying the stars, and soothing our US friends' nerves (Doctors, colleagues of my wife) that there really was no risk and no trouble would happen,and it didn't. If other things are important to you, then explore other alternatives.

I travelled all over Europe 35 years ago like everybody else, and like everybody else, I enjoyed it. I've lived now in 3 countries and so far Canada is tops by a smidgin. There's too much crime in the States, and the cost of living is too high in Britain although I could probably handle it now, given by how much my wife's and my salaries would have risen. If I had to return to the States tomorrow, it'd be great because I'd get to see all my old friends again more often than once a year. Besides David Bromberg has moved to Baltimore and maybe he'd be willing to play fiddle while I got my hand back in on guitar.

It's more than an either one or the other one world guys, get used to it, 'cause it's coming at you big time. What else do you think globalisation means? They've exported the blue collar jobs, and now they're exporting the white collar jobs. God knows what will be left, but I'll be sitting on top happy as a clam at high tide no matter what happens, cause I can live happily anywhere.

Rob

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Wandering the streets at 3am ...
Apr 24, 2006 10:59AM PDT

... there are MANY places in the US where you can do this just as safely as in Canada. Sheesh.

Low taxes = FREEDOM. If that's not important to you ...

It's not one or the other one thing that bothers me. It's your persistent anti-American rants whilst claiming to be one of my countrymen.

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We really prefer.........
Apr 24, 2006 1:37PM PDT

The Evil Twins Devil

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Not this idiocy again. It has been the law for decades
Apr 24, 2006 10:14AM PDT

that American citizens can hold other passports, if not centuries. I pay taxes in the United States on property and on investment income, my kid, as the child of 2 American citizen parents, is a citizen too. There is nothing wrong or immoral or illegal about carrying 2 passports, and if I was a die-hard Bushie we wouldn't be having this discussion. You're just pi$$ed because I'm a Democrat, and can cast that vote.

Perhaps you should be reassured that if I were captured by terrorists they'd behead me just as quickly as any other American. If I can die like one I sure as hell intend to continue to live like one whatever you pickers-and-choosers of "Real Americans" think. I think some of you are crypto-fascists with your love of Joe McCarthy and your desire to eviscerate the Bill of Rights, but that's just my opinion based on what I read here, and not an accusation.

As far as I'm concerned, you can kiss my Maryland born and raised ***.

Perhaps Evie, it would be better to have a longer residency period for citzenship. Say two or three generations, and service in a foreign conflict. I qualify on those grounds, do you.

Rob

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idiocy
Apr 24, 2006 10:26AM PDT

And yet another powerful retort from the faux intelligensia. Always tell a Dem. At least you moved, unlike all those that said they would if Bush were elected. Being so crazy about Canada why don't you sell your "tainted" U.S. property and stocks. I'm sure Canada would love for you to invest in them. Tell us what foreign conflict did you participate, if you don't mind, and for what country, as you are always bragging on the Canadian military. As far as kissing, face the morning sun, turn right and come on down to redneck country and I'll oblige.

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You guys always confuse ragging on this Administration
Apr 24, 2006 1:33PM PDT

as anti-Americanism. But you never think that ragging on a Democratic Administration is Anti-American. So Mr. I-like-to-have-it-both-ways: I think Bush is anti-American because he doesn't believe in democracy or a free press, hence his classifying thousands of documents that have been in the public domain for decades, hence his lying to the American people about Iraq and sending American servicemen to die there when there was no threat, *and then trying to submarine the guy who told him the news that Niger wasn't supplying Uranium ore. And now since he's tied up all his available troops for the next 2 to 4 years, what's he going to do with the real threat in Iran?

You are coming in much too late on this discussion re service. I am an asthmatic, I have been an acute asthmatic since I was less than 2 years old. I have been hospitalized for it more times than I can count. Therefore I was found unfit for service when I had my draft physical. In 1975 I was hospitalized for an extended period and was not expected to survive. I did even though it cost me my PhD (the illness).

My father on the other hand served in Europe with the USAAF, that's the US Army Air Force if you don't "habla" WW2 speak. Hey, you're the one who started being snotty with me, I'm just replying. He served proudly and well for 3 years. I thought he was terrific and smart, and knew right from wrong. He was a life long Democrat. Now I thought the Viet Nam War was stupid and wrong, and so did he, but it wasn't an issue for me as it was for so many others. You're the one who's entranced by a Cabinet and an Administration full of draft evaders draft dodgers and multiple deferees. Oh yeah, and an AWOL President who "forgot" to get his flight physical. Any airman, or son of an airman knows that without a flight physical you can't fly. I don't know, maybe it was intentional, maybe he heard something from his Dad about the ANG getting to serve in Viet Nam. But I'm not pointing fingers, it just seems incomprehensible to me that a guy "bright" enough to be President couldn't remember to show up at the Alabama ANG and couldn't remember to keep his physical up to date.

The United States isn't tainted and I'll keep what I have thanks very much. We have money invested here too, but in case you haven't noticed, it's a small world and investment circles it very quickly. And who the hell do you think you are to tell me what I can and can't do? Just because you support the idiots in Washington right now makes you one of them, not better than them.

Oh yeah, and about moving. It was an accident. My wife is a Doctor of Internal Medicine and an Endoscopist, she learned Endoscopy like many other Americans up here in Toronto at the Wellesley Hospital, which had a superb Endoscopy Unit. They offered her a job, and we debated and decided to stay. 6 years later the Conservative Provincial Government much influenced by Republican ideas closed the Hospital and we went to Britain to see what they had to offer, what more could be learned. Quite a lot it turned out. 4 years later my wife was head-hunted to head up the Endoscopy Unit at her hospital, not least because of her American and British experience so we came back.

I may be in Virginia in a few months so if you want to come up to God's country (Virginia's almost Maryland) and get down on one knee you're on.

Rob

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BS ...
Apr 24, 2006 1:39PM PDT

... or are you saying that the crime rates and healthcare etc. are ragging on Bush? No, America doesn't fit your preference of socialism. So you've gone elsewhere. Fine. But don't expect "fellow countryman" comraderie!

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Saying that you have found National Health Care to be a good
Apr 25, 2006 7:17AM PDT

thing in 2 countries is not running down the United States. Saying that you believe it would be a good thing for the majority of Americans is an expression of personal opinion, and not a denigration of the United States. Pointing out that all industrialized democracies except the United States have a National Health Care plan is merely fact.

Pointing out that the crime rate in Toronto is lower than that for any comparable city in the United States is again what I believe to be true, from the statistics I have read.

I have been strongly opposed to the Privatization of Social Security, because I think its bad for the majority of its recipients. It is my belief and opinion that Bush is only concerned with the well being of his class, that is the top 1/2 of 1%.

I am a liberal, not a socialist, though I don't fear that term, because I've seen it at work in 2 countries so far and found it indistinguishable from regular politics except that they at least pay lip service to the good of the bottom half of the population. I now find American politics elitist and directed at the top 10% of the country regardless of party. But that's just my opinion based on 25 years of living away from the one eyed view of itself and the world that passes for popular thought in the States.

And whatever your opinion of the law, it is the law. You guys are supposed to revere the law as laid down and insist on strict interpretation. Well, strictly speaking, I am breaking no laws, I am abiding by the law, and while you may not agree, that's tough. I'm legal. Get over it.

Rob

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Tom, once we decided to stay in Canada I decided to
Apr 25, 2006 6:52AM PDT

read their history. I found it interesting and an enormous contrast to the history of the United States. The British, because Canada was a colony until 1867 always sent the Army and surveyors in to the territories occupied by the Indians, before settlement could begin. Then they set up police forces to handle the settlers. There was no Wild West in Canada.

I post things about the Canadian military because as an American, despite working on a PhD in History, I never heard of any of the military history of Canada. I found it interesting and impressive, and have posted it just for information's sake. I am not trying to run down the US military, I'm just trying to provide additional information. Canadians are our allies in Afghanistan. They're trying to ensure a stable move towards Democracy just as the American troops there.

You are mistaken if you think I'm trying to denigrate American troops by talking about the good things other troops have done. You guys get that information every day. But you don't hear what the Canadians are doing or have done.

Somebody here posted that Canada has lived under the protection of the United States since 1776, conveniently forgetting that we the United States declared war on them in 1812, and that most of Canada's 19th century infrastructure was built as far from the border as possible because the US was perceived as Canada's only threat.

Canada has to some extent derived some protection from the United States in the Post WW2 era, but the US has also acted somewhat unfairly and improperly in my opinion in its exercise of power politics and trade with Canada.

I once accused someone here of a monocular view of the world. He didn't understand what that meant. If you're looking at the world with one eye, you see the world without depth, and only about 60% of what you would see if you use both eyes. I think most Americans look at the world through one eye, and have a diminished appreciation for things not American because of it. Now the odds are I will be accused of having a poor understanding of the world and trying to foist that on the American people in general (at least that's what happened the last time I tried to express this opinion). Having lived elsewhere, and having read opinions from elsewhere, some of them even in other languages, I find America's view of the world very limited and with little depth.

Now that's just my experience having lived in 3 countries, and trying to get an idea of how 3 different cultures view the world and issues. When you're buying something, do you buy the first thing you see, or do you do a bit of research, ask a number of people, try to get as much information and as many views as possible. That's what I'm advocating in terms of understanding other countries, formulating foreign policy, and formulating domestic policy.

I keep coming back to a sort of democracy of ideas. If a number of democratic countries have found something useful, the obvious example being state run health care, then doesn't it make sense to at least examine it? Not in the way it was "examined" under Clinton amid a barrage of misleading self-serving advertisements from Health Insurance Companies, but in a careful critical all-sides-of-the-argument way, because the United States is the only industrialized democracy without a national plan. That makes us a majority of one, but not part of the democracy of nations.

Rob

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(NT) (NT) Nice sidestep
Apr 25, 2006 7:20AM PDT
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Service in a foreign conflict?
Apr 24, 2006 10:27AM PDT

which one? I thought you skipped out on Vietnam? Am I wrong?

Not that I care.

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Or I'll work to get the law changed
Apr 24, 2006 11:00AM PDT
Devil

Which I have the right to do as a resident American citizen.
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(NT) (NT) So does Rob...
Apr 24, 2006 11:36AM PDT
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For now
Apr 24, 2006 11:39AM PDT
Devil
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(NT) (NT) BRAVO ROB!
Apr 24, 2006 11:37AM PDT
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Idiocy
Apr 25, 2006 12:26AM PDT

I don't care if you are a member of the Elvis for Prez party. You like to say things and then deny them, tell people to get the facts yet the facts you use are incomplete because if you gave the whole ball of wax it wouldn't fit your agenda. Did you or did you not write this?
"and service in a foreign conflict. I qualify on those grounds, do you."
Now you say you were physically unable to serve. Slick Willy had nothing on you!

Tom

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Perhaps you should clarify how you "qualify" Rob
Apr 25, 2006 12:33AM PDT

By your qualifications, George W. Bush has you hands down, because near as I can figure you are relying on service of your Father to meet the "service in a foreign conflict" "requirement". Well, Dubya's dad was a war hero, AND Dubya served admirably in the Guard. Of course we all know facts don't get in the way of your slander.

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Rob, Not just this President.........
Apr 24, 2006 6:15AM PDT

there hasn't been a President in the last 40 years that has done anything to stop the flood of illegals.
So bash the rest of them and quit attacking the current one in officeSad

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Flood of illegals?
Apr 24, 2006 9:45AM PDT

Do you mean the many Russian and Irish people coming undocumented? Or Scandinavian people? British people?

When it comes to Mexico the problem is that they are too low paid in their home country and therefore are willing to take the risk to come to the USA to get more paid for doing anything (very often cleaning up from the wealthy people who don't want them to "flood" the country...). Once the USA puts an interest into the well being of the Mexicans in Mexico, big part of the problem is solved. But we will keep doing the opposite since we want the cheap labor there. It's good to have an oasis for the capitalists so they can close down a few factories here and open up new ones on the cheaper side or the river.

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The vast majority of illegals ...
Apr 24, 2006 9:48AM PDT

... are from Mexico and places south.

Conditions in Mexico are NOT the responsibility of the US Government or US citizens.

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Problem is...
Apr 24, 2006 10:42AM PDT

That US usually is a threat to improved conditions in the region as you know very well. Examples? What happened to Chiapas? Did the US cooperate with the Zapatistas? Don't think so. Nicaragua - SSDD. Venezuela - Although I don't have any proof (and that's the whole point from those trying to create the chaos) I strongly suspect that some of the chaos the country has experienced is created by someone who has an interest in overthrow Ch

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Venezuela ...
Apr 24, 2006 11:02AM PDT

... is a socialist workers utopia. Why would anyone from there want to leave to come here? LOL

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I took it as an example
Apr 24, 2006 11:15AM PDT

which you are perfectly aware of. I mentioned the little wish from the US to cooperate with countries that try to improve the conditions for the masses. Not only through tax cuts for the wealthy. And as long as development for the masses are being worked against, there is a very big chance that the people will try to improve their conditions by going to the big country up north. But you knew that already.