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General discussion

Big trouble from installation attempt

Jun 8, 2007 12:59AM PDT

Although this is about hardware, it really is a continuation of my saga about burning CDs. Read and weep!

A while back, wanting to burn an emergency CD of Disk Warrior, I bought a new SuperDrive recommended by a solicitous reader of my message to this forum. I had decided, in the end, to have professionals install it, but when they didn't get back to me, I took Apple's instructions in hand and went at it. How I wish I hadn't!

First, the SuperDrive model I got doesn't fit the available drive space, and it has feet, something I didn't know would further inhibit installation. I learned all that only after I had taken everything apart. I am hoping that I can exchange the drive, but after a trip of mercy to Virginia and waiting for the techs to reply, I kind of doubt they'll do that. I shall try, however, throwing myself on their mercy as I ask which drive I really need.

I then put the CD/DVD drive and Zip drive back as instructed (though some screws on the drive chassis wouldn't stay in (quite a mystery). I was relieved that the old CD/DVD drive still worked -- it was murder getting it in and out -- but the Zip drive isn't recognized, and I have a Zip disk in the computer that I can't get out. I've checked the connections, and they seem just fine, but no go. The light by the drive blinks when I boot up or press on the disk in the drive, but no icon appears on the desktop, which would seem to mean that my Mac doesn't know the drive (or the disk in it) is there.

I can't use Disk Warrior. Even though I still have OS 9 on the computer (Sawtooth AGP G4 desktop), Disk Warrior won't repair the disk, assuming that there actually are things that would allow me to get to the Zip drive, if repaired. It tells me that I have a more up-to-date OS on my Mac, which is totally correct, of course. I have Tiger. It wants the emergency disk that I wanted to burn when I first started my thread in this forum on Disk Warrior. Catch-22.

Any ideas? I don't mean for this to be a pity party. It's just that after hours of working on the computer doing something that should have taken a much shorter time, I'm still upset and exhausted, the following morning. (Among other things the drive chassis and drive fit terribly tightly and awkwardly into the space allotted, the connections for cables are awkward, and the screws were very tight indeed.) Losing my Zip drive is the last straw. I need advice. I guess I can always forget about the Zip drive and use the portable one I have, but I'd really need to get my Zip disk out, at the very least. Holding down the mouse button while booting up doesn't work.

Thanks for your patience, everyone. I know that this is tedious, at best.

jenny

Discussion is locked

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ZIP first
Jun 8, 2007 1:29AM PDT

With your head at eye level with the ZIP slot, you should see a small hole like the ones on CD drives.
Insert a straightened paper clip, preferably a strong one, and push. The ZIP disk should come out.

P

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And the DVD
Jun 8, 2007 1:39AM PDT

It has FEET?!
This does not seem to be the one that you ordered from OWC as being a straight replacement for the existing drive.
I thought you had ordered the DVR112D or was it the drive with the Apple logo on it? (that kinda rings a bell but I cannot see it on their site anymore)
If the drive does not physically fit, get back onto them and complain and get the correct one.
Internal CD drives do NOT usually have feet and, with the exception of some slot loaders and the slim-line drives, are a standard size. There is no physical difference between an internal CD/DVD device for a Mac and one for a PC.
I have the DVD110D installed in my G4.

Let us know what Otherworld Computing says.

P

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I agree
Jun 8, 2007 2:13AM PDT

Yep, feet, and the model shown at the Web site said it was an Apple, but this is Sony. I thought there was something a little odd about it but assumed I was ignorant and that it was the same thing. Never thought about the feet, but I should have. It even came with a sheet of paper touting an adapter for using it as an external SuperDrive, but even then (silly me!), I didn't catch on. This must be an external drive.

I'll go back and check the invoice. Clearly, they sent me the wrong thing. I am quite sure that I ordered the right one.

Thanks, and I certainly shall get back to you on this. As for what is wrong with my Zip drive, I've no clue. Reluctant, too, to go back into the Mac (though I put my hand in to make sure that the connections were tight). It is a task for Hercules getting the drive and its chassis out even a little way but also a matter of delicacy. Getting it in is even harder. Extremely tight fit, and I also don't want to dislodge the two drives' connections. Next time I'll let a pro do it and forget about cost and time elapsed. Nobody's fault but mine, my pride and my impatience.

Best,

jenny

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The story continues (SuperDrive)
Jun 8, 2007 3:00AM PDT

I just spoke to someone at OWC who says that the drive is an internal drive, that I can just take off the feet, that the fact that it is a different size is OK (because, he says, the newer drives are shorter) and that the drive definitely is compatible with the Sawtooth G4. He only asked whether there is a label on the drive (there is) but not for the model number or anything else. Curious! I hope he's right about compatibility and fitting.

Well, I shall have to get a tech in to put it in (he'll have to tackle the problem with the screws that don't stay in the chassis) and to try to unmuddle my Zip drive. The Zip disk still is in the drive. I guess I'll have to wait till the tech comes. Hope I can get the person soon!

No, I didn't get the model that you have (you didn't mention the number), but the Apple/Sony one on sale that you told me about. Nothing at the Web site when I bought it about being meant for both internal and external use, nor anything else except how great it is. With many things on my mind, I never thought to ask questions.

So should I buy Toast or some such thing? Never having burned a disk in my life (nor anything but real toast), I don't know what is needed.

Thanks for your help.

jenny

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Toast or something
Jun 8, 2007 4:36AM PDT

The CD/DVD burning software of choice for the Mac is Toast.
Having said that, once this drive is installed and all is working well, the OS will be able to create CD's for you. The Blank CD will mount on the desktop and you just drag stuff to it.
iTunes/iPhoto/iMovie/iDVD can all produce disks by themselves.
Toast is just more convenient and more flexible than the other methods.
If you don't want to buy the latest and greatest version from them, earlier versions work just as well.
Current version is 8 but 6 & 7 work just fine. You should be able to pick the older versions up fairly cheaply. You will need a serial number with them.

P

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Help! Need NYC tech
Jun 11, 2007 5:40AM PDT

I just spoke to a Mac tech recommended by a friend (though he has a PC). I wrote to the tech about a week ago and sent an email message to follow up. He never responded, but now that I have reached him again, he says that putting new hardware into an old (Sawtooth AGP G4) Mac like mine is a questionable thing, that there could be complications requiring that they be here all day and so on and on.

Does anyone know of a good tech person in New York City who will come to my apartment and put this thing in? I apparently did something bad to my Zip drive when I went into the computer's innards myself, the drive looks as though it might be tricky to fit in (and I have no instructions for that particular model of drive). The tech guy suggested Tekserve, but they want to install equipment that they sell, and the Sawtooth is enormous and heavy and I wouldn't be able to do it for two weeks. If there's anything wrong with the drive I bought, I will be unable to return it and get another that functions well. In fact, it may be late for that already.

Oh, boy! I wish now that I had simply found someone I know who with a computer that has the capability to burn a CD instead of fooling around with things I know nothing about. But I've crossed the river on this and think I'd better just find a more willing or more knowledgeable tech.

All responses most welcome.

jenny

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Time to install
Jun 11, 2007 10:30AM PDT

for any competent Mac tech, or even non-Mac tech, the installation time for the DVD should be less than an hour!

Have you thought of going to one of the Apple stores up there and asking them to suggest an installer for you?

P

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I hadn't thought of that
Jun 11, 2007 11:19AM PDT

Thanks for the suggestion. It's a fine one, and I shall do that if I can't find someone else sooner. It's just that I'm being sandwich generation again?this time my daughter, son-in-law and their two young kids, dropping in on me and my mum before they move to Scotland. I'll be tied up for a while, and it takes a bit of a trip and time waiting at the Apple Store to get advice. I am feeling a bit anxious about the amount of time that has passed since I got the drive and would also love to be able to make that DiskWarrior CD, so if there's any other option, I shall take it.

Many thanks again,

jenny

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Back again (CD/DVD drive)
Jun 29, 2007 6:45AM PDT

You've been so kind that I wanted to update you on this, but I'm getting so discouraged! I finally got someone on the phone that I thought could put in my drive (which OWC wouldn't exchange for me), and like the other guy I talked to, he expressed doubts about installing it. He said he thought my G4 (Sawtooth, 450 Mhz) was too slow for the kind of drive I got?the other guy said it was too old, not possible to install ?said that it would take 2 hours to install it and so on. I liked the sound of the people he worked for, but all that hemming and hawing made me nervous about him. No, I haven't gone to the Apple Store, as you suggested, but maybe I should. I hope they'll recommend someone. There have been so many unavoidable delays!

I really thought that you, Peter, had advised me to get the Apple/Sony drive, but maybe I was wrong. Yet OWC swears that this is the right drive, so what do I know? Get rid of the Apple/Sony drive and get the one that you have, the one that I know will fit? At the rates that people charge to install these things (this last guy was relatively cheap, at $90 for an hour and a half, the company's minimum), it would almost not cost me any more?assuming, of course, that I could put the thing in. I did all the work when I took out the old drive (and put it back in). Maybe that's what I need to do. On the other hand, there was that little fiasco with the Zip drive. I still haven't tried putting another Zip disk in that drive, lest I really damaged it permanently. What do you think? Oh, I'm so sick of this, and you must be, too.

It's hard to believe that there are so few Mac techs in Manhattan, New York City that I can't find even one who will venture to install my drive without mumbling direly about possible problems. Of course, I could take the computer (very, very heavy) to a place I know and let them supply the drive and the labor. That means, in addition to hardware, taxi fares both ways, waiting to be helped (often, a long wait), doing without the computer for who knows how long. . . . The one comfort is that they know what they are doing, and I've never heard them mutter about disasters.

Sorry to complain so. Thanks for your patience and don't answer if you don't want to. This isn't your problem; I just needed to go to a place where people would understand what I'm going through.

jenny

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Moan away,
Jun 29, 2007 10:38AM PDT

How surprising that in the big Apple there is not one technician that can install a DVD drive into a Mac.
Given that you have already done it once, I have no doubt that the second time would be even easier. I don't understand the statements that you have been receiving from these so-called "techs", I hope you were wearing your boots when they were telling you all this stuff. A computer too slow for the type of drive you got? That's neat.

Yep, I did say that the Sony/Apple drive wold be OK, it was advertised as an internal so why would it have feet? Apparently these are removable??? Hang on to it for just a moment.

For $40 + shipping, the Pioneer device is known to fit in that space. It is a standard size space. You could bite the bullet, cough up one more time, install the thing yourself, and eventually put the other one in an external Firewire enclosure. Now you can copy all those CD's adn DVD's that you make.

As for the ZIP, I think I would draw a discrete veil over the thing, wish it well and never go near it again. Do I recall you saying you had a USB version of the ZIP drive as well?

If you decide to go the DIY route once more, would you like a copy of the Apple Tech manual on how to install it. Specifically for the G4 that you have?

P

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Installing the drive
Jul 1, 2007 2:21AM PDT

I am mystified myself that it's so hard to find someone to install the drive without doubts. I'm not really sure what I shall do. I didn't actually install a drive, but only (following the Apple directions and having watched the OWD video, over and over) took the old one out and then, when it appeared that the new one wasn't like the old, put the old one back. OWC swears that the new drive fits (and that I can take the feet off), but I wouldn't know how to install it, because it's a different size (they say that's standard now), and the screws won't fit in the same places. The Apple directions (thanks for the offer, but I have them) wouldn't work for this drive. I am quite certain that they are the right ones, and they are identical to what is shown on the OWC video.

I must phone the Apple Store soon and see whether they can/will recommend a tech. If not, I'll reconsider my options. As put off as I was by the amount of money it would take to install the drive, I was even more uncomfortable with the amount of time the guys said it would take and their doubts about whether it could be done. I don't know whether you've ever read James Thurber's Many Moons (ostensibly a children's book but great fun for adults), but in that book each of the king's experts says, when consulted, that the moon (which the princess needs to get well) is larger and farther away and more impossible to obtain than the expert who went before him. The princess has the answers, when she is asked by the jester what to do, and the jester solves the problem easily. I am feeling as frustrated and perplexed as the king and would far rather be the princess (the one with the answers) or the jester, who puts the solution into effect, but it's a question of time and nerve.

I am reluctant to make the new drive into a Firewire device only because I already have a rather capacious Firewire drive that works just fine. Thanks for the suggestion, though. Again, I shall make my decision when I've reached Apple Store wizards.

You are right about the Zip drive. It's only curiosity (would it work this time?) and a bit of bruised self-esteem that make me want to make the internal drive work. I certainly can abandon it and use the external USB one. I just hate the idea that by having mucked about in the innards of my computer (and feeling that I put everything back where it belonged), I made bad?not having a CD/DVD drive that burns?worse. Silly, but I am proud of being both competent and careful, and I like to be able to figure things out, too.

Is the Pioneer the same drive that you mentioned to me that you have? I want to be sure to get the exact right model if I decide to get a new drive and do my own installation.

Thank you, estimable Peter, for all your advice and commiseration. If it isn't too much trouble for you, I shall accept your offer of the right Apple directions for installing my drive. Maybe what I downloaded wasn't really the correct set (though I think it wss), and I believe that no matter what I do, they will be helpful.

Best,

jenny

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Email address
Jul 1, 2007 4:49AM PDT

Email my profile with a valid address to which I can send the Manual. (PDF)


P

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Thanks, I'll do that
Jul 1, 2007 9:25AM PDT

P,

I don't know whether or not you've already gotten my email address. I was putting it in, along with another bit of message, when suddenly, your profile page disappeared. Well, if you haven't received it, I'll send it again.

What I was going to say is that one of the oddest parts about the drive I was sent is that it seems already to be in some kind of enclosure (though not, I think, a Firewire one). Besides the feet, it has, on the back, many places to plug things in and etched writing with little pictures of boxes under them for what are apparently the functions that each set of prongs is meant to enable: digital audio; analog audio; cable select, slave and master; host interface; and power. My old drive didn't have anything like that. Apart from that it has four screws recessed into the bottom of the drive, four holes without screws and what looks like a rectangular button (recessed) on only one side of the drive and nothing on the other side. Does this explain why I find it so puzzling? It almost looks as though it already is in an enclosure of some kind, but I'm so ignorant, I wouldn't know whether it was or not.

Anyway, maybe I should just send you my email address again (to your profile). I'm not at all sure what happened, but I suspect that my earlier attempt was aborted.

Many, many thanks,

jenny

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Got your address
Jul 1, 2007 9:54PM PDT

Could you take a picture of the rear of this device you were sent.
It sounds very much like you have a complete external package there. If you have, then your may be able to forego digging around inside your machine and just connect it with a Firewire cable.
If not firewire, then maybe it can be dismantled and the inside device put inside your machine.
USB on your machine will NOT cut it.

Manual is on its way

P

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Do you mean I should scan it?
Jul 2, 2007 1:06AM PDT

Dear P,

I certainly hope that this discourse has been useful to someone besides me! Anyway, did you mean that I should scan the back of the device? Not sure quite how I'd do that, or how I'd get it to you. Unfortunately, I'm not sure that my scanner has the updated drivers and such to take the image, though it would work in Classic, I suppose. I still have OS 9 on this Mac.

If you did mean that I should take a photograph, would you tell me how to send the image to you? As a JPEG or JPG? Attached to a message to your profile address? I don't have a digital camera, actually, but I could get one of those throwaway ones, I'm sure, and then learn how to get the image into my computer.

Of course, if the scanner works, as is, with OS X (or even OS 9.2.2), and if I can attach the file, when scanned, to a message, that would be faster.

It certainly does seem (and look) like an external device. I wonder how this all happened. I asked OWC about that, and the guy insisted that it was an internal one and the right model for my G4. I really can't say that it looks like Firewire device, though. My Firewire cable wouldn't fit into any of the places (ports?) on the back of the drive. It has three pins, and the others have, respectively, two rows of three (one over the other); two ("digital audio"; a little recessed slot; four ("analog audio"; two encased in a little plastic upright rectangle and four in a square right next to it ("cable select" and "slave, ""master"); twenty or so over a row of ten, a space and then nine ("host interface"); and, last, four much heavier pins with two skinny ones underneath, spaced out )"power"). The label on the top of the drive says that it's a Sony DVD/CD rewritable drive unit, "Model No./[yes, the slash is part of the number]" then some Japanese writing and "DW0Q28A." At the top right of the drive is a label with what I suppose is the serial number APLDVRDWQ288A, then a space and 2695210. Does that help or just muddle things?

I shall have to hook my scanner up and see what happens. I haven't used it since I (1) had my apartment painted and (2) went over to OS X. With luck it works with one of the OS versions I have on my computer.

Many thanks to all for your patience with this. I hope to have it all straightened out in a while and to let you all go back to whatever else you were doing.

jenny

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I was thinking of a digital photograph.
Jul 2, 2007 2:37AM PDT

No camera on the cell phone? No, me neither.

Oh well, how is your artwork? Happy

P

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Nice old trck but no cigar
Jun 8, 2007 2:04AM PDT

I have done that, over and over, but the drive seems to have a death grip on the disk. I'll keep trying, but somehow, I'm not confident.

Thanks anyway,

jenny

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Light on Zip drive blinking; disk still inside
Jun 10, 2007 1:59AM PDT

I still haven't been able to get the Zip disk out of the drive, and now (when the computer is on), the light on the Zip drive blinks, on and off, all the time.

Using the paper clip advanced the disk a very little bit, but it won't come out. I reinstalled the Iomega and Zip 100 software from my backup (can't use the disks that came with the drive, obviously), but no luck. All plugs seem firmly seated in the drive itself. I'm out of tricks.

And yes, I've tried unplugging the computer's power source and replugging it after a few minutes.

I can use my external Zip drive, the one I use for my laptop, after this, but I sure would like to get my disk out and to stop the blinking. Any further suggestions?

Thanks,

jenny

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Goodbye Zip.
Jun 10, 2007 3:32AM PDT

I had one like that. The drive had failed in some odd way so the eject would not work. I take it you asked the Mac to eject the disk?

It's time to remove the failed drive from the system and take the drive apart for the last time if the eject plus some pliers to fish the disk out fails.

We've helped hundreds say goodbye to this dead technology.

Bob

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Sorry for the delay
Jun 11, 2007 11:31AM PDT

Bob,

It was so kind of you to be so sympathetic. I would have replied sooner and thanked you, but I'm over my head in work and other things right now and just couldn't go there until tonight.

In the end, by using the paper clip, over and over, and jiggling the disk to the extent that I could get at it, I finally made my Mac let go of it. Then the external Zip drive (which I had for my laptop) failed to show up, either, and every time I tried to get to it or to reinstall the appropriate (Omega, Zip) software, I was told that there was no Zip drive present.

And yet, I know not how and after my trying this and that for a long time, the external Zip drive showed up! Don't know what will happen next time, but I wonder. . . . Lucky thing, too, because my old Zip software is on a floppy, and though I have a floppy drive, it is apparent that OS X will not talk to floppies. (I'm going to have to transfer to Zip disks, I guess, whatever's still on my floppies, and thence to DVDs or CDs, once I get that pesky SuperDrive installed.)

Well, belated thanks. I don't know now whether it was the internal drive or the Mac just not recognizing any Zip drive for a while, but I'm glad that I got that Zip disk out at last.

jenny

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My last word on the ZIP
Jun 11, 2007 11:41AM PDT

OS X has built-in support for a ZIP drive.
It does not have all the bells and whistles that the Iomega toolkit does but it can handle them without any extra software.

Well done for finally getting the machine to let it go!

P

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That's good to know
Jun 11, 2007 10:24PM PDT

Who knows why my Mac finally released its death grip on the disk? I'm just glad it's out and the Mac's recognizing at least one of the Zip drives. A combination of pushing and wiggling finally got the disk out. I don't know how I managed to get the computer to recognize that I have a Zip drive. (Two, actually.) Maybe the Zip gremlins just got tired and went away.

Thanks for the information about OSX and Zip. There's still so much I don't know, and I'm very glad to learn whatever I can.

Best,

jenny