Bible question. Where to research?

If you mean Paul, one of his statements is at Ro 1:20.
Regards, Doug in New Mexico

thread. I'm a bit mystified by what you mean.

Im going back to some previous note to reply, because Ive forgotten the little trick to keep the same thread going when it says I cant.

subthread until you get a "reply" tab. Then I try to remember to address the person by name (not "LORD" or "Adonay" ), so the link is obvious.
Paul said, "For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world?s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable;? (Ro 1:20-21)
Reading the context (always recommended) will show you that he was referring to those who claimed a belief but had 'proved false to its power' as in 2 Tim 3:5. However, I think you'll agree it makes a point about an invisible God being made apparent. Not that a clear thinker like yourself would be persuaded, of course.
Related scriptures:
?"But to whom can YOU people liken me so that I should be made his equal?? says the Holy One. ?Raise YOUR eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy*, he also being vigorous in power, not one [of them] is missing*.? (Isa 40:25-26)
*I earlier posted to someone else the significance of these phrases; I can redo if you want.

?Of course, every house is constructed by someone, but he that constructed all things is God."(Heb 3:4-5)
If we were talking about houses you wouldn't question the "of course." Why (I ask myself) would anyone question a First Cause for the much more complex and beautiful universe?

Finally, I'm not alone in believing with David:
?The heavens are declaring the glory of God; And of the work of his hands the expanse is telling.? (Ps 19:1)
Regards, Doug in New Mexico

all have the sound of lines that might come from a telling of "The Emporer's New Clothes". Not very persuasive.

Dan

There is this little thing call free will. God may know what a person may do because he can see the person's soul but does not force His will.

Makes you wonder if He spoke to others before one accepted. How may Abrahams were there before Abraham accepted - same with Mary?

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I never thought of that before; I suppose he could have. I do know that in the case of Noah He examined his heart (Pro 17:3) and went with his first choice:

?So Jehovah said: ?I am going to wipe men whom I have created off the surface of the ground, from man to domestic animal, to moving animal and to flying creature of the heavens, because I do regret that I have made them.? But Noah found favor in the eyes of Jehovah ... Noah was a righteous man. He proved himself faultless among his contemporaries. Noah walked with the [true] God.? (Ge 6:7-9)

In the case of Abram [Abraham] there might have been some other conversations, but Gen ch. 12 shows that Jehovah didn't mince words: ?And Jehovah proceeded to say to A?bram: ?Go your way out of your country and from your relatives and from the house of your father to the country that I shall show you; and I shall make a great nation out of you and I shall bless you and I will make your name great; and prove yourself a blessing.? (Ge 12:1-2)
IOW, 'Abe, it's a command, not a suggestion!'

Again, I've always come to see Mary and Joseph as a special case, chosen first and notified later. Partly because the coming of the Messiah was the key to the ransom sacrifice of such value to us all (Mt 20:28); Jehovah doesn't leave the important stuff to chance.

His creation. The Bible talks about both. Yes, free will is fully operational, and, yes, God's choice is fully operational also. Paul, for one, did not exactly freely choose to follow Christ. It was Christ who came after Paul, and did not give him much choice. The same thing can be said of Joseph (remember? God meant it for good), Jacob and others. I do not think there were other Abrahams or Marys. God has a plan which He was implementing. Abraham and Mary chose to obey, but we don't really think that they could have derailed God's plan.

As you may know, this subject area is still hotly debated in the church.

I just presented the possibility. It can also be said that God knew their hearts and knew they would accept. What I find interesting is God accepted some questions and came down on others.

Mary questioned her pregnancy since she had not known a man and God answered.

On the other hand, Zechariah (John the Baptist's father) questioned having a child at such an old age and he was struck dumb until John was presented at the temple.

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

requirement that god be reasonable, rational, or just.

Think of what he might have done to those who he asked and refused him. It's probably a good thing that no one wrote about them.

Dan

God. There is no external standard to which He must conform. He is rational, just, loving, merciful, etc. because that is His nature. That's what He chooses to do. Reasonable? That depends on what you mean by reasonable. My daughter can tell me that I'm being unreasonable ('all the other kids are doing it'), but that just means she wants me to submit to her authority. I don't consider that a reasonable request.

There are a few who were asked to do something, and refused. Consider Jonah. Who do you side with in that case? Jonah or God?

rational, just, reasonable, etc., have no meaning. God does what god does and you just accept it regardless of how horrific, terrible, pointless, and brutal it may be. If god asked you to kill a baby you'd commit such a murder without a thought.

There are only a few cases of god being refused that you are aware of. There could be countless more that have gone unrecorded.

Dan

made us in His image so that we know what the standard is like. He has also told us, via revelation, what is expected of us. You are mixing the results of sin with God's action.

Kill a baby? I'm too likely to make an error in determining what God has 'told' me to do to act so rashly. God communicates with us through His word. That's why it exists. It doesn't tell us to kill babies. He did tell Israel to wipe out a culture, but only after hundreds of years of abuse had occurred. Note that that was an instruction to a nation, and not to individuals. We can't fully know what led to that judgement, but the culture was engaged in some horrific practices. There are consequences to what we do as a nation and culture. That is one reason the Bible says that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Too bad the Nazis did not understand that.

seems more than a little hypocritical to call someone else a baby killer.

I've never stated that I was in favor of unlimited abortions. Nor did I, in fact, call you a baby killer.

Is your interpretation of scripture this fanciful, as well?

Dan

abortion? It is hard to say just exactly what your position is on any given subject. You have a tendency to change it whenever someone gets close to pinning it down.

As far as killing babies, here is what you said:

'If god asked you to kill a baby you'd commit such a murder without a thought.'

It sure sounds like you are calling someone a baby killer. Perhaps you'ld like to enlighten us on what you said.

you stated my position without knowing what it is. That much is obvious. Your perception of my positions is hampered by your inability to see the world in anything but the stark black and white of your ideology. The gradations of the real world do not translate well with such a filter as you apply.

I do not believe that you are a baby killer. Nor did I say that I ever thought that you killed a baby. I said that, given your world view, if you believed that god wanted you to kill a baby you would do it. I do not believe that this has happened, nor do believe the probability of this happening is easily distinguished from zero. If you wish to continue to think that this qualifies you as a baby killer then that is your call and there is nothing more I can do for you.

Dan

or taking responsibility for what he did say.

If I would kill a baby, then very little separates me from someone who has killed a baby. Isn't that correct? Frankly, the suggestion that such a thing is possible has turned the whole discussion repulsive. Think what you like. I'm not sure I'm much interested in it at this point.

conveniently circular. God seems to have made is instructions pretty clear to people. Why do you think he wouldn't do the same with you? Perhaps he has tried you you didn't hear him. There's no way to know, as you've said, what god will find for you to do, so, unless you like the insides of whales, keep an open mind about who you'll kill and when.

Dan

assertion. The rest of your post is pretty incomprehensible, but at least it's not a one liner. Congrats!

wrote about a whole group of people who didn't do what Jehovah asked- the Jews. Finally he arranged to have them taken into captivity for 70 years, then had them released and sent home. They still didn't listen, so he arranged for the Romans to destroy their religion. But first he had the Messiah come and arrange for a new contract ("covenant") between himself and some physical Jews, who were later authorized to bring Gentiles into the arrangement.
All this written about in a series of books under the title "The Bible," a bestseller available at your local bookstore.
(Hope the Mods don't get me under the no-commercialism clause of the TOS.)
Regards, Doug in New Mexico

should have had a bit more faith when told something by an angel than a young, inexperienced teenager.

At any rate, God had his reasons, and I'm sure that Zechariah, having had a chance to think things over, had no complaint about his experience. Zechariah is a good example of God taking the initiative to bring His intentions to fruition.