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Resolved Question

Best way to stack routers?

Jan 31, 2015 10:09PM PST

Time Warner no longer gives me multiple IP addresses. My TW Arris router/cable modem has 4 ports. The Arris is set up with DHCP and I plug three different routers into it for my home office, home and gaming. The indivdual routers pull an IP off the Arris and have DHCP set up to run their own networks. This works fine, but I have run into a problem with my GenieGo not working outside the home because the TW Arris has a 192.168.0.1 gateway and my other routers have 192.168.1.1 gateway. I want to make them all the same and have 192.168.1.1 for the Arris and then .2, .3 and .4 for the three others. Then set up DHCP with specific IP ranges on each so I wont have conflicts. BUT I want to make sure each router is doing its own heavy lifting and not just working as a bridge. What is the best way to accomplish this? Thanks!

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NOYB68 has chosen the best answer to their question. View answer

Best Answer

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Looks unsupportable.
Feb 1, 2015 12:48AM PST

As to your heavy lifting part, since the arrival of switched network hubs I've never seen what you seem to be concerned with happen. In fact, if you are using these as a router and switch you may be seeing what I learned long ago. The "4 port switch" in most routers is sub par.

Some learn this without buying gear. That is, they go get a network switch and they are done.
Bob

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Stack Routers
Feb 3, 2015 4:52AM PST

I have a network switch but that is not my issue. I want independent networks on three routers that can all talk to each other. I set it up with all routers in bridge mode using only the TW Arris for DHCP and there was a noticeable loss of speed. Not huge but on a 50MB service about 6MB. If I put one of the routers in DHCP mode with a restricted range to avoid conflicts the speed is spot on. This leads me to think I am sacrificing some speed by letting the TW Arris run the show on its own, as I thought I would.

My Apple Extreme is plugged into the Arris. The Arris has DHCP on and an IP range of 192.168.1.5 thru .15. The Apple Extreme has DHCP turned on and an IP Range of 192.168.1.16 through .50. Both use 192.168.1.1 gateway IP. All works well. If I put the Apple Extreme in Bridge Mode the speed suffers vs. this set up.

This is all well and good, except when I try to set up my Linksys WRT 1900 AC in the exact same manner the Linksys keeps automatically changing the IP ranges to 10.x.x.x.. Why? I can only assume it detects the dual DHCP servers running, but who cares if the ranges are set up specifically not to overlap?

Is there another solution to set up a router on top of another router so that anything on either router is considered on the same network while maintaining DHCP on each?

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That's no LAN
Feb 3, 2015 5:02AM PST

I'm left with the feeling you are reading from outdated pages here. With a switched hub, well, what you are fretting over is a thing of the past. Speed is maintained because ______. All well done discussions so why not go with current networking tech and solutions?
Bob

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I am no expert
Feb 3, 2015 10:43PM PST

I am definitely no expert here as you can tell. I only know what I have learned myself over the years. Part of the need for separate routers is to control children's access and turn off for punishment without shutting down the house. I like to do timed access and MAC restrictions.

I have Time Warner Arris, one IP.
I have a Linksys WRT 1900 AC (on the main floor of the house)
I have an Apple Extreme (in my office in the garage connected ethernet)
I have an Asus gaming router connected only to a PC for online gaming.
I have a Netgear 16 port switch in the basement connected to the Linksys


There are many things connected in my house via ethernet and wireless. (4) DVR's, (5) Apple TV's, (6) iPhones, (Cool Laptops, (2) gaming systems, (1) Slingbox, (1) GenieGo, (2) iPads, (2) Wifi Plug switches, (1) Nest Thermostat, (2) NAS devices, (2) Network printers and other things I am sure I am forgetting. I have 4 - 5 Teenagers in the house at any given time. It is not uncommon for one of them to be playing on line gaming non-stop while two others are watching Netflix and surfing on their phones or laptops.

I have Time Warner Ultimate 50/5 service.

Here is the goal -
Separate Apple Router in my office which is out in the garage. Ethernet runs into the basement and connects to switch in basement.

Separate ASUS router for gaming only to keep the processor load separate from the house

Separate Linksys router for the rest of the houses needs

I would like all of these routers to be able to talk to each other so I can access them no matter what I am connected to and the GenieGo works from any of them.

What if I add a second 8 port switch off the Time Warner Arris and put the Arris in bridge more and use DHCP on the other routers connected to the switch. This also means that the switch in the basement is connected off the Linksys which is connected to a smaller switch. Does that work? Will I still have DHCP issues, (I am thinking yes). Maybe just put the Time Warner Arris in DHCP, connect switch and run my other routers off it in bridge mode? That way I can set up MAC restrictions and such on a specific router as needed. Does this model mean that the specific routers processor is doing all the work and the Arris is just providing an IP through the switch to the router?

Share with me your knowledge of great ones! I am here to be molded. Trying to make an efficient network I can control in parts. Its a powerful tool to be able to turn off a single kids internet! It gets their attention...

Thoughts, advice? Thanks to all that have responded.

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Those are different goals than what you lead with.
Feb 3, 2015 11:14PM PST

It would be a simple matter to make your LAN/WiFi LAN and turn off access by putting them on their own WAP (routers can be used as WAPs.) Then put them on that WAP which is shut down when you feel the need.

Multiple routers is nothing I would offer support for. Too many troubles follow that setup.
Bob

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Can I?
Feb 3, 2015 11:19PM PST

The most important thing to me is smoking the processors. I dont care what anyone says, when the kid is on line gaming we all notice it unless I have him on his own router, separate from the rest of the house.

So... Are you suggesting putting the TW Arris in DHCP mode and letting it assign all the IP's? Then is it ok to run a second switch off of that and connect my other routers in WAP mode? In this set up, does each WAP do its own processing or does it fall back to the gateway ARRIS?

Thanks again

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Try it if you must.
Feb 3, 2015 11:24PM PST

If you want to go off the well worn path or setups you should try that and see how it turns out. And it appears you are in need of reading how switches work. That won't fit inside a few sentences unless I write that it does help a lot.
Bob

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I feel like I am talking in circles here...
Feb 4, 2015 12:52AM PST

I openly admit I do not have a background in this and may need to learn a lot. I am looking for advice here.

I have the 'desire' to separate usage onto a couple different routers. How would you accomplish that? I have already tested running EVERYTHING through the Time Warner Arris and using the switch. I have a NOTICEABLE loss of speed when the kid is gaming. 6MB or more loss. If I have the gamer isolated on his own router, using the same access point as everyone else I do NOT have this issue. Switch or no switch, functionality or not, a switch alone is not the solution. It cannot maintain speeds across the entire network. I have tested this.

So my question is how would YOU do this, IF you wanted a couple different access points instead of just one with everything running off the switch?

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Again you are talking about a setup I would never do.
Feb 4, 2015 3:42AM PST

While I will setup such like this:

Cable Modem Arris that appears to have an internal Router to the switch and WAPs to that switch.

That means I can turn off the WAP that is needed when the call is required to do so. Also I could throttle speeds in the WAP. Not all WAPs have that feature so one could cheat and set the WAP to older 802.11b speeds to snub/curb that use.

Seems you have goals beyond this and stacking routers with each being a router would tax most network folk. Imagine if you were new to networking, then it's a dead end.
Bob

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Thanks
Feb 4, 2015 4:41AM PST

That is what I did before you responded. It all seems to be working well. Only problem is the gaming router loses 'parental control' options when you put it into WAP! Figures. I can still shut it down completely though since the gaming computer is the only thing plugged directly into it. I liked being able to set time of day criteria on it. Oh well. Maybe time to check into DD-WRT firmware for it!

Thanks for all the responses and guidance.

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Let's tackle this LONE CONNECTION on its own.
Feb 4, 2015 4:54AM PST

See new idea. in new reply.

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Let's hear what values you used for netmask.
Feb 3, 2015 5:09AM PST

If you answer 255.255.255.0 well, you know that's not going to be correct.

Hey, I don't mind folk trying new things but all the above tells me you are not up to speed on how things work.
Bob

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Answer
Tried DMZ
Feb 3, 2015 5:06AM PST

...through the first router to the ones behind it?

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Answer
PS. Here's why we use Switched Hubs.
Feb 4, 2015 3:49AM PST

-> http://computer.howstuffworks.com/lan-switch4.htm

As a rule I don't duplicate web content but it appears you need a direct link to catch up on network technology.

As to what a bridge is, that's something else entirely and not part of what I would use to solve what goals I am guessing you want here.
Bob

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Answer
Let's say let's use one router as a parental control unit.
Feb 4, 2015 4:57AM PST

Let's let this one router be a router.

So the connection would be from the central switch to the WAN port of this lone router. Let it be a router.

To give the lone PC we want to look like it's on our lan, put that PC's IP into this routers DMZ.

At this point this router and PC should be functional and you can try it's parental controls.
Bob

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Mini Network
Feb 5, 2015 1:58AM PST

I did. I took the gaming router and plugged it right into the Arris. Its not important to me that I have access to that router on the rest of my network. Its sole function is to separate and control gaming usage. I just gave it a static IP and turned on DHCP with 192.168.2.1 router WAN IP. I left the wireless on, (which isnt used because he is hard wired) and hid the network so I can access it remotely if I need to but nobody knows it is there so they wont try to connect to it.

Thanks again...