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General discussion

Best camcorder for HD broadcasting and YouTube video

Aug 18, 2013 6:15PM PDT

We are trying to built a video-system for streaming over the Internet. After digging some more on the Internet we narrowed it down to these three options:
- Sony HVR-HD1000U, entry-level professional camcorder with HD capability, currently fading-out
- Panasonic HC-X920, remarkable sensor specifications (1/2.3" 3 backlit sensors, min. lux performance)
- Cannon Vixia HF G20, top of the line in online reviews, smaller sensor than Panasonic's


We are looking for a primary camera that would be filming from the back - 40-50m away from the scene - in low/difficult light setup. What would you choose and why? We're also open to new ideas.

Discussion is locked

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If recording is not needed
Aug 18, 2013 11:21PM PDT

then why camcorders?

How is the streaming going to happen.

Good low light behavior means wide lens diameter (70mm or larger) and big imaging chips (1/3" or larger, 3CCD r 3CMOS preferred.

The camcorders you post are basically consumer - perhaps prosumer grade - that are designed to record/capture video. Studio camera do not have a recording capability... they connect to a "control room" that has switchers. monitors, recording and the interface to where ever the transmission is going to (in this case, apparently, the internet). There is also an audio control system. The studio cameras might have a mic mounted to them, but the talent will usually have mics mounted to them.

Sony, Canon, Panasonic and Ikegami (among others) have "studio" cameras available
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-broadcastcameras/cat-hdstudio/
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-broadcastcameras/cat-broadcastcamerapantiltzoom/
(these remote cams will also need a PTZ controller)
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/products/professional_cameras/ptz_cameras
http://www.panasonic.com/business/provideo/professional-camera-systems.asp
http://www.ikegami.com/product_indexb.html

Using camcorders not designed to do what you want will lead to frustration and create a series of items for your to "work around" that you don't need.

I also suggest you find/hire a consultant to design your implementation.

I would not use any that you have listed for the conditions you have described. If we can only choose from camcorders, then the starting point will be Sony HDR-FX1000, Canon XF300, and similarly priced equipment from Panasonic or JVC...

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Budget
Aug 19, 2013 1:56AM PDT

We're uploading to dedicated streaming server with:
- a Blackmagic ATEM TVS video-mixer
- a Blackmagic IntensityPro capture card
- an i7 Dell Optiplex with 8 GB of RAM and Windows 7 x64
- two Cannon Legria HF R48 camcorders that will be filming at short distance without zoom (good PQ)

All we need is a the main camera far back to capture most of the footage 40-50m away from the scene.

Interesting ideas but those cameras are way over our budget (1600$) and scope - they would be "manned' by non-professional volunteers so lots of manual controls would be a problem for them.

The PTZ cameras, although interesting, are priced way over our budget for this project and I wonder if they offer anything better than the Canon Vixia G20 or the Panasonic X920 in terms of picture quality.

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50 meters?
Aug 19, 2013 1:59AM PDT

My bet is the cost in lens and tripod alone eat up most of that budget. The 50 meter distance is going to cost here.

Nod to cameras and more at Ustream.
Bob

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Agree with Bob on the
Aug 19, 2013 2:52AM PDT

50 meter distance. If we can only choose from the 3 you list, then the HF G20 has the largest lens diameter. The Panny has a decent sized imaging chip array, but offset by the smaller lens. They will probably be about the same. "Better" means larger lens diameter and imaging chip system. There is nothing in your price range that provides both to improve the video under "low/difficult light".

The Sony HVR-HD1000 has the same lens diameter and imaging chip size as the (discontinued) consumer HDR-HC7 and while using miniDV tape is good for camcorders, it is irrelevant for this sort of studio-type need. This should not have made your short list.

Since you indicated "low/difficult light setup" the HF R series entry-level consumer-grade camcorders - even close-up - will most likely be problematic. Their specification has "none" for filter diameter so we are left to guess about that. Generally, we find these camcorders in the 30mm range for filter diameter. Coupled with the small 1/4.85 inch single processor, low light expectations should not be high.

Not knowing the layout of the venue or the expected installation of the Blackmagic gear has us at a disadvantage. I presume the expectation is to connect the camcorders using HDMI cables. Based on what you're sharing, HDMI has a distance limitation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi#Cables unless extenders are used.

And I don't mean to be the grammar police or anything, but a "Cannon" is a big gun. Canon is the name of the company that makes lots of stuff - including the HF R series cameras you apparently intend to use. Also, this is an all digital set up. There is no film involved.

Some other hints:
Since camcorders were designed for portability and battery use during capture, they usually have a timer that shuts down the camera after a period of "non-use" (not recording). Some camcorders will stay on all the time when plugged into working AC power, many do not. In either case, read through the manual to understand the auto-off function and disabling that (if it is possible).

With multiple cameras, use the manual white balance settings.

Use a communication systems so the camera operators and control room folks can all communicate. ClearCom makes good gear. There are others.

Use tripods that are way overrated for weight of the cameras. You want a fluid head (not "fluid-like"). Don't use mounts with plastic quick-releases. All metal. This will minimize bounce assuming a good solid fit of all metal components. This may even mean adding weight to the tripod head to help with the smoothness and feel.

I am still of the opinion a consultant should be hired.

Good luck.

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Nod to fluid heads.
Aug 19, 2013 3:01AM PDT

My son has one and I can attest the upgrade was well worth it.

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Good insights
Aug 20, 2013 3:39AM PDT

We considered the older Sony HVR-HD1000 because one of the best setups we know is still using them with remarkable results: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkBALOOUuLg&feature=share&list=PLvskAP69pZKhtDDcq_MIj4WO2YaNYpDxV - they're also using a Blackmagic ATEM TVS with the same software that we would be running.

If we can obtain at least 80% of that picture quality we can call this endeavor a success...

We already have a HDMI-extender solution, tripods, streaming server/service and necessary software in place, then only thing missing is the main/back camera which could make or brake this setup.

As far as I could see it's simpler to invest in improving the light for the scene instead of finding a camera for difficult light so we can have that off the requirements list.

In the end a modern camcorder that could come even close to the above picture quality is a buy (we're not too found on tape camcorders either but the best picture quality for our 1600$ budget is of paramount importance).

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Since there has been
Aug 20, 2013 8:39AM PDT

no mention of using the camcorder's local recording capability, your "fondness for tape", or lack thereof, is irrelevant. From all you have presented so far, the recording media used by the camcorder won't be used.

Personally, as I am not in a position to spend a lot of up-front money on a multi-terabyte storage system and that HDV format video is very high quality, low compression format, I find digital tape an affordable option for high definition video capture in the camcorder and long term storage. The alternative is flash memory camcorders, but I have not yet been able to figure out how to store lots of video for a long time without spending a bunch of money on the NAS and multiple drive RAID1 systems or subscription to an online cloud storage service. And other affordable, appropriate, long term storage options have not presented themselves.

Rather, this thread and discussion has been all about using consumer-grade camcorders as studio-camera replacements... that the HD1000 uses tape matters about as much as the R400s using flash memory. That is: the recording media in the camcorder does not matter. The video is being streamed to and through the control room and not stored locally in the camcorder.

If you like what you see from a site you want to be like, then using the same equipment they use seems to be a pretty easy decision. The alternative is rebuilding the wheel. And yes, an investment in good lighting design with PAR cans, trusses, gels, barn doors, proper aiming for the production, a good dimmer console system and all that always has good, useful, value regardless of the cameras used.

Perhaps there is a local TV station you can contact and make an appointment for a tour. They generally have way more lighting mounted in the studio than they use for a broadcast... and they *have* to make money to be successful so installing unnecessary stuff (e.g., spending money for no good reason) is not usually part of the equation.

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Update - Final Decision
Sep 4, 2013 12:40AM PDT

After much debate and testing the Canon G25/Panasonic X920 we came to the conclusion that we need at least 15x optical zoom to get a decent picture quality in our setup.

Searching back and forth we took into consideration new cameras: Sony HDR-FX7, PMW150, HVR-Z1from which the FX7 seems the most appealing - 20x optical zoom, decent performance in artificial light, easier to use.

Do you have any experience/opinion on the FX7 that we can take into consideration before buying it?

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The Sony HDR-FX7
Sep 4, 2013 6:16AM PDT

is the prosumer sibling to the HVR-V1. In both cases they are mini-DV tape based, HDV camcorders and not designed to be used as a "studio" camera.

if you have not already done so, consider downloading the manual from Sony
http://www.docs.sony.com/release/HDRFX7.pdf
to understand standby mode and power, and other capabilities of the camcorder.

The lens diameter and imaging chip system are smaller than the HDR-FX1/HDR-FX1000/HVR-Z1, so the low light behavior is not quite as good. Since we can't see what you see, you are on your own on this one.

The LANC port in the FX7 may be especially useful... It is a connection for a wired remote for zoom, focus (and sometimes photo capture, depending on the controller you get).

I almost bought a FX7 a few years back - but ended up with the HDR-FX1.