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Resolved Question

Best camcorder around 2500eruos

Mar 27, 2015 7:36PM PDT

Hey everybody,

I'm new here but it looks like this forum holds a lot of questions similar to mine so I'm going to give it a shot. I'm currently debating on which camcorder I should buy in these upcoming two or three months.
I've been using a CANON 650d up till now to make my movies and videos but I've decided to up my gear and getting something more professional and with and actual auto-focus.
I've been checking out a lot of camcorders, and I've come up with three that look interesting:

the Sony NEX-EA50M NXCAM
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1076767-REG/sony_nex_ea50m_nxcam_camcorder.html

the JVC GY-HM600
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/856596-REG/JVC_GY_HM600U_GY_HM600_ProHD_Camcorder.html

adn the Sony PXW-X70
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1072752-REG/sony_pxw_x70_professional_xdcam_compact.html


I've started reading review but they all seem to have their plus and minuses. Does anyone have any advice to give me?

Finally, I'm also looking for a flash lamp and a good mic for night filming. What would you recommend?


Thanks for taking the time to read this. I'd really appreciate some help from someone who's "already been there".


Best regards,

Diveye

Discussion is locked

Diveye has chosen the best answer to their question. View answer

Best Answer

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Depends on your requirements...
Mar 30, 2015 3:24AM PDT

Take a look at the short list... last, first:

The Sony PXW-X70 is a "pro" sibling of the HDR-CX900. You might want to compare the two. I am not a big fan of having the XLR adapter on top. This makes the camera top-heavy. The top handle is a screw-mount add-on. This is not unlike the sibling HDR-HC1 and pro sibling HVR-A1. I prefer having the XLR adapter controls on the bottom of the camera using an XLR adapter from juicedLink or BeachTek. The audio gain controls are more readily visible and accessible at the back of the camera rather than the side. If you don't need the "pro" codecs the PXW-X70 includes, then the HDR-CX900 + XLR adapter + camera bracket for accessory shoe mounted shotgun mic is less money.

I'm sure the JVC GY-HM600 is a fine camcorder - and has been around for a while (not good or bad - it just is). The pro camcorder market is not as "fickle" as the consumer market. A bit larger footprint than the PXW-X70, I would put it in a ballpark closer to the Sony HDR-AX2000. Both are in that odd not-quite-handheld-but-can-be-handheld camcorders area - but not shoulder-mount without adding something. Both are similar in size (and 1/3 inch 3CMOS imaging chip array and lens diameter) to my Sony HDR-FX1 (and HDR-FX1000 and HVR-Z5). I have not used any of the JVC pro-grade camcorders (only a couple of their consumer-grade).

The Sony NEX-EA50M is interesting... Similar to my NEX-EA50UH, but different lens and a few other tweaks. It is the only one of the three on your list that has an interchangeable lens (E-Mount) system. If you were to only read selected specs, you'd think it is a dSLR - not a camcorder... it has an APS-C imaging chip and hotshot for a flash unit and can capture 16 megapixel still images. It has an odd but useful built-in, slide out, shoulder mount that the others don't have. The other "different" thing it does is use the flip-out LED screen as the viewfinder screen by way of an clip-on eyepiece. It look strange, but works well. A really handy item is that the top of the shoulder-mount slide-out has three 1/4" x 20 holes. Using a 1/4" to accessory shoe adapter, I've mounted a Sennheiser G3 wireless portable base station or an external Elvid 7" HD monitor.

I am actually looking at the Sony HDR-AX2000 to augment my current camera stable. The 1/3" 3CMOS imaging chip system handles low-light better than the APS-C chip in the NEX-EA50UH. Arguably, the lens diameter on the lens included with the 50UH is 67mm compared to the 72mm diameter lens on the 50m. When I need the best lowlight performance I can afford, I use my FX1, not the EA50UH. The larger lens diameter on the 50M may make the difference - but I have no personal experience with that. The HDR-AX2000 may be more than you want to spend.

In addition to the video performance, the other reason I am considering the HDR-AX2000 is because the same high-capacity batteries (L-series NP-F970) that I use with the HDR-FX1 and NEX-EA50UH will also work with the HDR-AX2000. And on-camera VidPro LED lights. And on-camera Elvid external HD monitors. Maybe not the best reasons in the world, but at least I don't have to re-buy different manufacturer batteries for different equipment. In your case, this does not yet apply, but worth considering. I *think* the PXW-X70/HDR-CX series uses the smaller V-series batteries and I have not seen any external devices using those or the older V-series batteries used with the HDR-HC1/HVR-A1.

We assume you already have appropriately weight-rated steadying devices.

Thank you for doing some homework ahead of time - and providing a decent short list and realistic budget.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

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Great answer!
Mar 30, 2015 4:09PM PDT

Thank you so much for answering boya84, your input was of great value to me. I've reviewed a lot of things since I first posted my questions and I've narrowed down greatly my research as to the camera I wish to purchase.
I used to have a Canon 650d before, so I believe what I'm really looking for is a "run and go" camcorder, therefore something closer to the PXW-X70 rather than the NEX-EA50UH, or as you mentioned the HDR-AX2000 would certainly be quite interesting too but it is out of price-range for me...
As for the XLR grip you were mentioning earlier I have never used one before but I wish to start doing so with my new camcorder and the codec available on the PXW-X70 (50Mbps in chroma subsampling 4:2:2) was one of the main features I was going for.
Thanks to you answer and my research I think I really managed to narrow down my choices camcorder-wise. Having already a descent shoulder rig to stabalize my would-be camcorder, I'm trying to find one that would combine ergonomics and high visual performances (especially when it comes to low-light) for an affordable price.. As it stands the PXW-X70 seemed like a very good choice for it had pretty much all I wanted from that perspective. But it remains an expensive upgrade to the FDR-AX100 from my point of view, and I was wondering if for the same price-range of the PXW-X70 there existed other camcorders that would suit my needs.

Once again thanks for the great answer this really helped me!

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Re-read you original post
Apr 1, 2015 10:27AM PDT

and saw I missed a few items... specifically, "flash lamp and a good mic".

Assuming "run and gun", that will mean camera-mounted gear. And if we assume the Sony PXW-X70...

When the PXW-X70 has the optional XLR adapter mounted, there is a standard sized accessory (cold) shoe on the add-on handle just over the lens barrel. There is also a holder for a shotgun mic.

I own/use an Audio Technica AT875R. It needs phantom power. (It looks eerily like the Sony ECM-XM1 (or ECM-VG1) with the main visible difference being the AT875R can disconnect the cable at the mic while the XM1 has a cable "tail" to a XLR connector). The XLR adapter/handle assembly can supply phantom power, so you're good to go. Sennheiser makes good shotgun mics, too. Since you will be shooting outside, be sure to get a fuzzy (aka: "dead cat"). This will go a long way toward eliminating/reducing wind noise as the foam wind screen alone won't be enough.

For on-camera video lighting, I've had good luck with the VidPro Z-96 LED unit. Not exactly "high end" but it gets the job done (and is relatively affordable compared to some of the other on-camera lighting options out there). The dimmer is very handy. It won't light up a huge area, but is good for a throw of about 4 feet for interviews and such. I looked around for on-camera lights that use the V (or M) series Infolithium battery used by the PXW-X70 and could not find any. This does not mean they do not exist, merely that I did not look hard enough. If they use a Sony type battery, it is usually the "L" series that are used the larger footprint camcorders. The video light can be mounted to the cold shoe.

If you are using a shoulder rig, consider getting a wired remote. The PXW-X70 has an optional Sony proprietary wired remote (RM-VPR1). It may be easier to use and incorporate onto your shoulder rig than the included infrared remote or the NFC/smartphone remote app.

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Thanks again!
Apr 2, 2015 2:39AM PDT

Thanks again for this answer! Yes.. I meant "run and gun"...
I was actually looking into Rode microphones for that purpose but yours seems pretty nice too. I wonder if anyone had any preferences concerning using a NTG1 or the Audio Technica AT875R? Though it is longer and will therefore make the camera a little more clumsy to use the NTG1 seems to have better specs than the Audio Technica AT875R for about the same price. Both are phantome powered in 48V so compatible with the PXW-X70 standards and moreover the NTG1 is a little wider (around 22mm in diameter) whereas the Audio Technica AT875R is around 20mm. From what I could gather the microphone holder on the XLR grip on the PXW-X70 is 30mm in diameter.. I'm not exactly sure how it works but it did not look adjustable.
As for the lighting the VidPro Z-96 LED looks exactly like what I was going for!

Thanks for the tips on the shoulder rig.. Having everything available at hand's reach is definitively the trickiest part of it all and for that I will certainly consider getting a remote.

Thank you boya84 for having taken so much time to answer my questions!

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I like RODE mics.
Apr 2, 2015 6:45AM PDT

They make good stuff. Have used them (NTG1, NT4) - for some odd reason, when it comes to actually spending money I somehow always end up with Shure, Sennheiser and Audio Technica (SM58, G3 wireless lav + add on module w/ portable base stations, AT-825 & AT-875R & AT8004L).

The reason I suggested the AT875R is specifically because it is short (for the PXW-X70). If you want a longer mic for around the same price (and decent specs), check the Sennheiser MKE 600. The NTG1 is a fine selection.

The XLR adapter-handle-module add-on's mic holder is indeed a bit wider in diameter than the mics we've been discussing. This is to take care of the folks who end up with fatter diameter cam-mounted external mics. The low budget version is to wrap electrical, duct or gaffer's tape around the mic body enough times to make the mic body diameter larger (learned from an audio engineer buddy). I didn't think that looked very good and ended up using "spacer" from a bicycle handlebar mounted light. It looks nicer and there's no adhesive to worry about (I had an old bike light in the garage that was not in use when I went looking for the electrical tape and was glad to be able to recycle something from the bike-light's broken mount). And if you ever mount the mic in a shockmount or regular mic clip, it is easier to deal with the spacer than the tape removal.

Don't forget the fuzzy!

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The Mic.
Apr 3, 2015 12:30AM PDT

I looked at what you sent me and the MKE 600 does look quite nice but it is a whole lot more expansive than the NTG1 (almost twice the price!). Obviously however, you do get a lot of bang for your buck and it could be quite nice.. But I think I'll just stick to the NTG1. I'm ready to sacrifice a bit of ergonomics for quality, though not too much which is why I won't go for the NTG2.
Indeed as you've suggested I've seen a lot of people wrap duct tape around their mics to make them fit, one pro suggested using an old mic windshield, cutting it to pieces and filling the gap with that. That would sound like a pretty nice solution too! Spacers seem like a great solution too but I have none I can use right now.. If I buy a fuzzy which I think I will, or wooky condomns as people call them Grin, I'll use the supplied rode windshield to fill the gap in.
By the way, I've checked out the VidPro Z-96 LED panel but I can't seem to find a place to buy it from (I'm in Europe).. Is there buy any chance another LED Panel that would suit the PXW-X70 you could advise me on? I've checked out quite a few from the VidPro brand but I still have a hard time spotting which would best suit my needs..

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I did not meant to double the mic price
Apr 5, 2015 2:22AM PDT

I was looking at
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/878340-REG/Sennheiser_MKE_600_Shotgun.html
and
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/367746-REG/Rode_NTG_1_NTG_1_Condenser_Shotgun_Microphone.html

"Wooky condom" - hilarious, and now part of my vocabulary. Certainly more fun than "dead cat".

Cutting up an old shotgun mic foam windscreen (and make a bunch of loops) is a good idea. It could also provide additional "shock mount isolation" from camera handling noise. Go to the head-on shot of the PXW-X70 at http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1072752-REG/sony_pxw_x70_professional_xdcam_compact.html and you'll see there are some "bumps" in the mic mount. I presume the mount is the same as my NEX-EA50UH. There are four relatively soft rubber "buttons" that provide decent vibration isolation - but the foam could help more.

bhphotovideo is my "go-to" place for gear. Sorry, not familiar with any online or brick/mortar shops on your side of the pond. For LED lighting, if I had not gone with VidPro, I probably would be into Genaray as they use the "L" type battery as well. I have some Bescor gear (remote pan/tilt head - I generally use AC power rather than batteries for this) that is well-built for my needs, but carrying AA batteries (even rechargeable) does not sound like fun to me - replacing batteries would take longer than using a single mid-sized "L" battery. ikan and Lightpanels are a little outside my price range (I'd get Litepanels LED panels in a heartbeat if I had the budget). May I slice this differently? What, specifically, are you looking for in an on-camera video light?

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Ergonomic portable lighting
Apr 5, 2015 7:52PM PDT

Indeed on this site the NTG1 and the MKE600 seem to have the same price but I've found a place where I can buy the NTG1 for 100 euros less.. Wink

Yes I thought so too.. But this has soo many names between dead cat, fuzzy, wooky condomns..

Yep that's what I was thinking. When in a situation where there is wind I'll mount the NTG1 with the wooky. The supplied windshield would do great to hold the microphone steady. I had not seen those rubber buttons, thanks for pointing them out! It's funny.. It's impossible to get an actual good look at the mircrophone holder on the net. Maybe I should try looking it up on youtube.

Well I'm still relatively new to lighting panels. What I'd want ideally would be something not too heavy and not too clumsy. I was looking up until now into 312 LED panels but that seems like overkill. The thing looks quite heavy and big and I'm not sure how that would be mounted on the XLR grip. Is there another place on the PXW-X70 where you can mount LED panels that I'm missing out on?

Other than that I'd simply need something that can give me a 3-5m vision in total darkness, with a possibility to change the light color (filters) and the lighting power. For now I've found this:

http://www.amazon.fr/Projecteur-puissantes-cam%C3%A9scope-Polaroid-temp%C3%A9rature/dp/B007CM4ULY/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top#productDetails