BD-P3600 audio delay on blu-ray discs and Netflix streaming

MrDerbyUK,

I can look into it. If the main feature plays okay, and the extras don't, I'm not sure that's the fault of the player. While many audio sync issues are the issue, I'm not sure where the fault exists in one movie that syncs fine on the same disc as another movie that doesn't.

--HDTech

Same lip sync story. sent mine to Samsung under warranty, came back a MONTH later with same problem (lip sync). After lengthy conversation (argument) with customer service, it is BACK at samsung for warranty repair again. i am told today that the part they need is on back order, and I will be shipped a new player once the 'company wide' computer outage is resolved on September 1st. nuthin but hassles. i have now been without my player since july 21st. good luck.

It looks like Samsung just put up the new Firmware Update today. Try it and see if it fixes your audio delay issues. I will try it tonight when I get home.

Ok, I downloaded the newest firmware (2.02) for my BD-P1600 and the audio delay is gone. I'm bitstreaming regular Dolby Digital and DTS to my receiver and the audio is perfectly in sync with the picture now. I trust that the results will be the same on an HDMI receiver. If so, then everyone's audio issue should be resolved. Since the 1600 and 3600 firmwares were released at the same time and both models suffer from the same audio delay issue, the 3600 firmware update should have the same results as the my 1600's update.

Thanks Samsung Techs! I'm sure this fix wasn't an easy one, so I appreciate the effort all of you took to get this resolved.

xraffle,

Happy to assist, and happier that it's a solution for you.

--HDTech

I have the 3600 and today's update fixed my lip-sync issue beautifully. It was most obvious on The Dark Knight, so I popped it in after the update and could tell a big difference, even though the sync was off just a bit. The new YouTube feature is great too. Thanks!

Happy Friday! Thanks for the positive feedback and I'm thrilled to see some happy campers on the forum. I know this a/v sync issue has been unbearable for some of you and we really do appreciate your patience. This forum's provided me with a wealth of knowledge and through all your feedback and testing and for everyone who's shared their results, setups and configurations, etc... it's given me a lot of great information to go on. You all make my job easier so thank you!

I began a thread yesterday for firmware update results. http://forums.cnet.com/5208-4_102-0.html?threadID=357474 There has only been one report of a bricked player through a network update and hopefully, there won't be many to follow. (Crossing fingers) Please use the firmware thread to address any firmware update issues, questions, etc.

Thank you and enjoy your three day weekend! I know I will!

I was excited to see the latest firmware update become available yesterday... I have been having MANY problems with the Samsung Blu-Ray Players; as a custom retailer/integrator they cause us hours of labor and added overhead expenses performing service calls. I have seen an improvement in the playback of the few units that I have updated since yestderday, and we had one that was rendered in-operable because of it... I am having to exchange it, for which I'm not happy about at all; due to the time/expense that goes into it. I played around with the added streaming features... Blockbuster doesn't display any movies/shows at all, it simply says 'Coming Soon' on every category. The YouTube feature is great, and I was able to search out my favorite musician (Chris Cornell) and view/listen to the music videos and tracks - and the sound quality was surprisingly decent. YouTube isn't a unique streaming feature to blu-ray players, but it is nice to have it added to the Samsung.

HOWEVER, a huge problem for custom retail/integration companies like mine, is when a system update is performed, it erases ALL network settings. I have sold dozens of BDP3600's over the past 6mos, and customer calls are now streaming in stating, 'I can't watch Netflix', and 'My Pandora isn't working'... it says, 'The network setting are incorrect'... All of the wireless network settings are erased and reverted back to default 'cable' connection. This is a huge problem because even if we charged a very nominal fee for the renewing the network settings, it is still a hassle for customers and will lose money for the integration company. I don't charge customers for this, it isn't their fault and it should not cost them more money on a blu-ray player that they just bought.

Just some observations, suggestions... and some venting, about the Samsung blu-ray players. One more thing... if you want to become the best selling blu-ray manufacturer within the custom market at your pricepoint/s; two words - 'discrete codes'...

soundgarden1,

Try updating with a CD version of the firmware found on the Samsung.com support site. I was able to update our Blu-ray BD-P3600 without having to reset any of my network commands. Perhaps this will be a solution for you as well. If nothing else it's worth trying and perhaps it will save you some time.

--HDTech

Thanks for the reply HDTech,

As you know, from my numerous posts, we have had numerous issues with these units, and to say that I'm frustrated is a massive understatement. In addition to the many other issues that we've encountered with the BDP3600, this newest round of firmware update has disrupted the use of the streaming services (among other things). I will try to update it with a CD copy of the firmware update, but I shouldn't have to do this extra step for my personal BDP3600, and absolutely not for all of my customers... having to explain away these problems to customers makes them feel like they made a mistake by purchasing it, and makes us look unprofessional for recommending players that have so many issues.

On my unit, the network setting are correct, connected and functioning, however the streaming services only work intermittently... I have been fairly lucky with my BDP3600, it has worked well (except for the VERY annoying HDMI blanking issues, which often require the HDMI to be unplugged and replugged to refresh the authentication handshake!!!!!) and my family and I would enjoy our Netflix on a daily basis with few concerns with playback. Since we have updated the firmware, the movie will stop playback and require me to power off the unit, go back into Netflix and resume playing...

I attempted to watch a 1hr 29min movie last night, and it was interrupted 14 times, displaying a message directing me to 'check my router and ensure the network is operating properly'... and my network is operating perfectly, and my setting in the unit are correct... I refreshed the setting in the unit 3x's - which is the most cumbersome process in history - before I decided to simply recycle the power, and that worked... which was much faster than manually refreshing the network settings... I inevitably gave up watching my Netflix movie because of the frustration from constant interruptions by the player itself... I'm wasting my money on my Netflix account if I can't watch it on the player, which is unacceptable... I'm going to call Samsung tech support on Tuesday. I've had my player for six months, so it will be interesting to discover what their solution will be. I'll keep everyone posted.

The new firmware seems to fix the lip sync problem when it comes to HDMI transfered signals but when using analog audio out the is no setting for delay. This is absolutely neccesary as most TV's (if not all) have a processing time and as a result the audio will always be ahead of the picture.
Therefore there has to be an option to delay the audio up to something like 150 ms to get the sync right.....but there is no such option on the P3600 which pretty much makes the analog audio out useless. So I suggest this to be implemented in a future firmware update. Other than that I LOVE the P3600

So far, I have had four BDP3600's updated with the 9/3/09 firmware update, and it has rendered two of the four inoperable... 'inoperable' meaning that after the firware update the players freeze up multiple times, the wireless network no longer works properly, and in most cases the player must be turned off (or unplugged when frozen!) and regardless,we must re-enter all of the wireless settings to force the network to operate. It is a nightmare of a task to have to repeat over and over.

My custom retail/integration business sold a customer a BDP3600 less than a week ago, and when the new firware came out the player worked for roughly 10min after the update, then the wireless network began malfunctioning, the player froze up, and the disc door never opened again... getting Samsung to support their products is increasingly difficult, even for a retailer of their product lines... These players should not cause such headaches for consumers and retailers alike. I know that Samsung, and all other manufacturers, know that firmware updates are a risky business and can possibly have negative effects on many players. This process is not user-friendly in the least and I feel most '09 networked blu-ray players were rushed to market.

In order to keep consumers best interest in mind, I am going to suspend recommending these players to our customers... at least until Samsung can prove to me that they will work as intended, in a user-friendly manner. I'm not expecting that ALL units work, that isn't the nature of electronics, but the number of malfunctioning units should be a fraction of what it is right now... in my experience alone (over a decade as an systems engineer and integrator), I have never seen such failure rates for so many different issues. I'm a fan of Samsung and I believe they are an innovative company, and I hope they can turn it around.

I want to sell Samsung products, their concepts are cutting edge and impressive; however, the competition is coming on strong and I have had much better luck with product support, training and knowledge from other manufacturers... quality/performance, price and support are the main components to a successful product. The price is good, but the other factors could use some general improvements.

Thanks soundgarden1 for you post. This helped me to decide NOT to buy the 3600. I bought it last May and had the audio delay problem and returned it, hoping for a Samsung fix. After over 125 posts on this forum, I can see they have a long way to go.

I also am a systems integrator/engineer and agree completely with your assesment of failure rate. It seems Samsung's budget for testing and quality assurance is extremely inadequate. I agree with you that as these products become more and more complex, thorough testing before product and firmware releases is paramount. Perhaps the industry is letting the customers perform the QA and testing at the expense of themselves (me included) and businesses like yours. I also bought the LG BD390 but did not let my hopes get raised. I treated it like a test, as if I was doing a QA validation check. Well it failed miserably also with audio delays and poor wireless connectivity. I can't for the life of me understand why any engineer would allow such poor products out the door.

There needs to be a good way to calibrate the audio delay, such as a calibration disk. I have searched and could not find one. Have you seen one? It seems that so many products have variable delays from players to AV receivers to TVs. There needs to be one component that allows for real time adjustment of sync, both positive AS WELL AS NEGATIVE audio delay. Most receivers have adjustable audio delay which makes the problem worse. I would like to see a product that allows for continuously adjustable video delay on the order of 0 to 500ms, which would solve the majority of lip sync problems.

Until Samsung comes out with a fix with a statement that says something like "the audio delay has been reduced from 300ms to 10ms" or something similar, we will still be guessing whether it gets fixed. That is unacceptable to me. They absolutely need to provide detailed fix descriptions when they come out with firmware updates. This guessing game makes me not want to buy any products. (Manufacturers, please note this!)

Thanks Gadre97, I'm glad my post was able to help. You make a great observation about manufacturers 'using' consumers as the final QA test phase... you are absolutely right about that, they should put us all on the clock! These problems are perfect examples of the corporate machine at work... these engineers are very skilled, but corporatations places very strict deadlines and products MUST be released in time for annual product launch... it is all about timing, typically the first to get their product out, will gain in market share and win the big sales numbers.

A major factor is that these networked products are produced by foreign manufacturers; which adds complication to the process of quality assurance. The distance and communication factor is inefficient for consumers... QA problems are filtered through hundreds of people before they make it back to the engineers, much time and content is lost along the way. For example, Samsung is a Korean company, and they do not have the same regulations and codes as the United States, and MANY features must be adjusted to work and pass inspection in the United States.

The Samsung BD-P4600 ultra-slim, wall mountable blu-ray player looked great on the walls at the electronics shows, and even in big box retailers, with all the wires concealed... but, in the United States, it is a code violation to mount the player as depicted in ALL of Samsung's press and website. The power cord on that unit comes in two sections, exactly like a laptop power cable... and it also has the 'brick' section, which is thicker than the player itself. In all of Samsung's displays in stores, and on their website it is mounted with all wires concealed... it was that way at CES this year too - I mentioned it to one of the Samsung people and they didn't even know what I was talking about. To mount that player on the wall, with no wires showing, the power cord would have to be run inside the wall - which is a violation of fire code in the US... Samsung, and others, rely on their United States divisions to collect data, assess it, translate it, and send it back to their headquarters for evaluation and correction... and lengthy and flawed process.

I can go on for days, but the bottom line is that consumer satisfaction and pride in craftmanship are absolutely not top priorities, or this thread would not even exist. The larger the corporation grows, the more removed from reality they become... isolating the consumers which make their existence possible.

Your assessment to 'not want to buy any products' is actually a very logical conclusion. As a family-owned business, I need to sell products to keep in business; but it would be far worse to recommend/sell products that I know run a high risk of failure, which makes my company look bad in the process. I'm keeping my customers' best interest at heart by not recommending these units. There are many options with blu-ray players, and I would avoid the networked players until the bugs are worked out... their concepts are amazing, and when they work - I love them! I hope you have better luck with your next purchase. Have a great holiday weekend!

soundgarden1,

I did want to clarify something posted above:

<i>I can go on for days, but the bottom line is that consumer satisfaction and pride in craftmanship are absolutely not top priorities, or this thread would not even exist. The larger the corporation grows, the more removed from reality they become... isolating the consumers which make their existence possible. </i>

This Samsung Forum wouldn't exist if we wanted to isolate ourselves from consumers. I can assure you, we are anything but "removed from reality" when it comes to issues people post about. It's the weekend, a holiday weekend at that, and yet, I'm still here on my own time listening - well, reading - every post here, and I work among people who are equally dedicated to customer satisfaction.

I can't debate some of the suggestions in your post I believe to be errornous because it violates internal policies on discussing the structure of our business. I'm a little surprised by some of the allegations, but as always, the customer is always right. I do hope we can earn your business in the future.

We do conceal wires on our displays at iCES and other trade shows, and we do not usually highlight the cords, cables and speaker wires in our product guides. This is a common, if not universal practice.

I do hope you try the CD update solution I offered you, which keeps the settings during the update (at least, that was my experience). If nothing else, I hope I can at least save you some time with that solution, and that's what the board is for - to help assist and provide solutions as well as share customer experiences, both good and bad.

Gadre97:
<i>This [firmware] guessing game makes me not want to buy any products. (Manufacturers, please note this!) </i>

Loud and clear. I'll pass it up.

If our products don't make you happy, get something that will make you happy. I always promote a solution that is right for you. In most cases, I believe that solution is a Samsung product. But I don't want anyone to own something that doesn't provide a solution or something that makes them unhappy.

I take these problems seriously, and try to be a part of "turning it around" as noted in your post. I respect your decision, and look forward to working on improvements that will give you the piece of mind to sell our products with confidence.

--HDTech

HDTEch,

I appreciate your position, and your personal dedication to the job, however, I do not believe that any of my 'suggestions' to be 'erroneous'... I have worked on the manufacturer side of this industry in years past, and how I explained in my previous post, is exactly how it works... albeit greatly simplified. This forum is sponsored by Samsung to gather market intelligence, quash online negative consumer feedback, and of course, public relations - it is very much self serving... your doing your job, and they pay you to do it, so please don't take any critism of Samsung to heart... I am absolutely an unbiased industry professional, and offer the same feedback to any manufacturer who is consistantly putting out malfunctioning products, poor service and/or technical knowledge - whatever the case.

As for the 'common, if not universal practice' of concealing cables at trade shows... this is true; however, Samsung is MARKETING the BDP4600 as a 'wall-mountable' Blu-Ray Player; it is the main feature that distinguishes this player from all others... By showcasing a player, designed to be wall-mounted, on the wall with no wires is absolutely giving the false premise that all wires can be concealed. Consumers believe they can have the exact look/experience in their own home.

When a consumer, or retail buyer like myself, sees a player mounted, looking nice on the wall with no wires... it is assumed that the player CAN be mounted with all wires concealed, and is being marketed that way at trade shows and retail stores - that is a fair assumption, correct? I would like someone to address this fact:

HDTech, how would you mount this player to the wall? Furthermore, how would you have the wires, in particular the power cord, concealed so it can not be seen as depicted in stores and shows? I'm anxious to know what Samsung recommends to consumers about this conundrum.

Marketing this player as wall-mountable is fine... the concept is great, but depicting it on the wall with no wires is horribly misleading... there is no way around it. If a customer were to buy that player, with the intensions of having it mounted and looking as it does at the shows, or in stores... only to find out that when the installers show up to mount it, they won't run the power in the wall... and a recessed outlet won't help matters, what do you think their reaction will be? Truthful marketing regarding this particular unit, should have it mounted in stores/shows with the power cable run outside of the wall... but that would not be conducive of sales. 'Truthful marketing' is an oxymoron of such monumental proportions it might cause minds to boggle, so I should probably strike that statement... but what the heck.

Don't take my feedback as negative... I want manufacturers to improve their products so they are easier for consumers to use, with fewer issues. This forum is serving it's purpose by taking this feedback and improving their products. I only bring up the BDP4600 because I have had customers request the player, because they have seen it mounted and want it that way in their homes... and when we inform them that the power cable can not be concealed, because of the type of power cord it has... they instantly balk at the purchase and ask, "why do they advertise it that way?"... and we have no answers for them.

Once more, I do appreciate your time and efforts on this board... it takes a lot of guts to answer the unknown in a platform such as this; I look forward to your response.

Soundgarden,

You have to understand that no brand is 100% perfect. Even Sony and Panasonic have their issues. You know that the latest Panasonic Blu-ray player has freezing issues and til this day, Panasonic has not released any firmware update for it. My BD-P1600 never had any freezing issues. The audio delay and a few disc compatibility issues were the only problems I had with this player. The latest firmware fixed both issues very nicely. So, it's great that Samsung is working hard to fix the problems that people are having. And I also think it's great that the Samsung Techs are coming here at CNET and helping people out.

xraffle,

I understand that no brand is 100%... take a look at many of my previous posts, as I address this fact, as well as other manufacturer issues as well... in my previous posts I address the issue of networked players in general being an issue... You are correct that HDTech is helping out, and I applaud his/her efforts. I have designed and integrated thousands and thousands of products and systems, and I have never had the number of issues with a product category as I have with these networked products... my issue lies in the fact that these products are put to market before standards are made, and testing complete. The concepts are marketable and are valuable, but the performance is not keeping up with resale capabilites. Most players should work, but I am experiencing a VERY high rate of product failure, technical issues, return/exchanges and service... and for the past year, Samsung blu-ray players have had the most issues in my experience, and for all other companies for which I am in contact with in my area... I frequent this forum to offer information to others, to help them make the most informed decision regarding products and technology, and hopefully find an answer to why these players are causing my clients so many headaches.

soundgarden1,

I appreciate the response, and your kind words. My comments regarding your suggestions were with respect to the launch of the product. The product wasn't rushed to market, rather they were delayed. So while yes, I do present "the other side", I also understand that respected partners like yourself have a valid point of view, and good ideas, and I do want that represented.

I see your point about the brick on the power supply, and I don't have a response for that application. I have heard of installers building creative solutions for their clients (faux walls, vaulted shelfs, etc), but like anything else - if it doesn't fit your needs as the person providing the solution, present the customer with the best option available.

Firmware issues aren't intentional, they are meant to improve, not frustrate our customers. It costs us to fix a unit under warranty too. No, you shouldn't have to load a CD version of the firmware, but that's the best I have 3 days out of a firmware release.

Just so it's said, I was here initially to answer questions between the different product models, and to help people with settings and simple troubleshooting. I'm not PR - not even close. I don't have moderator status, so I can't quash negative feedback. I'm not a member of the service department, though I have escalated issues to help individual customers with a resolution. I wish I were all those things, but you give me way too much credit. What I am is your voice to the people who make decisions, and if you give me what you want to see, I'll be happy to send that up to the decision makers noting such. I appreciate the feedback - and even when feedback is negative, even more so when frustrations are expressed, and I do take to heart the fact that issues like this cause industry professionals to hesitate in selling our products - that should be shared with people who can make a difference. Tell me where we can improve, and I'd love to pass that up.

--HDTech

Samsung Tech,

I have a question. While the new firmware has fixed my lip sync problems, it has created other issues for me that I never experienced before the update. I will post those on the separate thread that blu-ray chick started. Anyway, my question is: if I install Version 1.03 on my player, will it revert back to the old firmware? Some people at the AVS forum claimed they did so successfully, but I just wanted to ask you to see how safe that is.

I wan the 2.02 update today on my BDP-3600, I have not confirmed that it has fixed the BluRay lip sync issue (I only noticed it a couple times), however what I did notice is that the Multi-Channel analog no longer outputs audio for any streamed DivX, MP3 or the new YouTube content. Completely silent out of the analog. (before update had no problems playing DivX or MP3's over analog) Hooked up the optical spdif and I got sound. Playback of DVD and BluRay works fine through the Analog.

Anyone else experiencing this?

Ryan.

I upgraded my BDP-1600 to latest firmware yesterday and now get no audio out on HDMI. I changed the Audio setting from PCM to Bitstream with same issue. No audio when playing DVD or streaming from Netflix.

I had the BDP-1600 for about 4 months and everything worked right out of the box. Please help me get my audio back.

Watching this forum has convinced me to NOT update my firmware without an option to revert back if something doesn't work.

How did I capture the current firmware before trying the new version?

xraffle,

Fair enough.

I'm doing everything I can to pass these comments up, and creating urgency on this matter so that a solution can be found for everyone who is affected.

--HDTech

Samsung HDTech,

Sorry if I sounded harsh. I know you're just the middleman and you're doing the best you can. I was just a little upset as to why the firmware fixed some issues like the audio delay, but ended up causing additional problems like skipping on certain titles and menu lock-ups. It seems like the people working on these updates are rushing them and not testing them fully, which explains all the bugs. Now, I'm scared to download any future firmware updates released because it may end up causing some serious damage.

Anyways, thanks for your response and your help! I really appreciate it.

Samsung's website indicated that v1.04 was available as of today. Sure enough, I turned on my unit and it updated to FW v 1.04 this morning via network update. So far, Blu-ray playback and Pandora work just fine. I never had any problems with previous FW updates, but I thought I'd add a positive note for what looks like a record-time response from Samsung.

Still 2.02 for Canada: http://tinyurl.com/mok7ht

Any idea if I will have problems if I run the US firmware update on my Canadian Box?

Also, there are two model numbers appearing on the site, BD-P3600 and BD-P3600A...anyone know what the "A" model is? (a mid-production hardware change?)

Ryan.

I went ahead and installed Firmware 1.04. It still retains some bugs that 2.02 had such as menu lock-ups. It tends to happen when you put a disc in, play it, then take it out and put in a different disc. When the next disc loads, it locks up on the menu. This doesn't happen all time, but it does tend to happen a lot and coincidentally, it happened after I tested it just now.

Lip sync issue is fixed on 1.04 as well, which is good. The skipping problem seems to have been resolved as well. I tried the two movies (The first "Chronicles of Narnia" film and "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire) and both didn't skip on the part where 2.02 struggled with.

So far, aside from the lockup issue, 1.04 seems to be ok, but I'm going to watch several movies on it for a while before I open my mouth.