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General discussion

BBC weighs in.

Jul 15, 2019 2:22PM PDT
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48993211

Side note: In twenty years in New Mexico I've never been told this. Yet I'm told there are savage indigenouses here. Or indigenous savages. Or something.

Disclaimer: England is a foreign country.
Unless you live there.

Discussion is locked

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In the sixties England was far worse -
Jul 15, 2019 2:53PM PDT

I was told I was a "Yank" ( even though I protested I was a Texan by birth and therefore far from being a Yankee! I did not "get" the blanket term at five years of age! ). Then upon arriving ' back in the States ' around the time my parents divorced - Huntsville,Texas, actually, my birth-town - and having a slight British accent from living there for five years - was told I was a "limey" and often instructed to "go back where you belong" or similar "helpful" notions. You would not believe how class system England was then - and still is, I've heard from a pal of my sister's who lives in Wales - but it's thankfully better both there and here in Texas, generally, though with the ascent of Trump in 2016 is now somewhat "normalized" by his and other old white quasi-racist (and worse!) sentiments. Witness his "doubling down" on his tweets toward "The Squad" - when they want a truly better America - I don't think any of the four congresswomen in question "hates" the U.S.A., like he opines, they want a better life for the common man/woman/child of this great nation.

Rick " 'The rabbit went hippity-hop across the green grass' " < I can still say that with a proper English (north Greater London, Pinner to be exact!) school accent, as it was one of my first lessons in diction/enunciation at a quite young age. Mom laughed herself silly when I came home and repeated it for her! " Jones :^)

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Said this before.
Jul 16, 2019 12:15AM PDT

My friend Mrs Bullhorse wonders why we all don't go back to ...

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I had forgotten about class. Still exists.
Jul 16, 2019 12:44AM PDT

Note the article is about British expats here in the US. Still relevant; man's inhumanity to man, and all that.

It's better in Wales because they're protected by our Welsh Moderator, named for King Saint Davy. Anyway, the Welsh have been mostly underdogs themselves, over there; nothing new.

Far be it from me to predict man's election outcomes, for several reasons, but I see some Democrats playing into Trump's hands. The Squad's reaction to the tweets strengthens the bonds with his 2016 people. If they ignored him, eventually he would have come across as a sexist looney. Now he's their equal in political discourse.

BTW I saw no questioning of his adverbs: speaking "viciously"??? Did he mean they snarled like a TV thug? That's clearly over the top rhetoric and weakens his case- but no one noticed.

I also noted for the first time their semi-public differences with Pelosi. Can't help anyone on their side. It's true she's old school, = part of the [Democratic] swamp, but she is still the boss under the system they made themselves part of.
Like the LGBTLS/MFT (or whatever) folks, emboldened by their own recent legal successes, they think they're on the crest of a a tidal wave. They are not. They are a minority, right or wrong.

Not my system. Happy

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Example, just in.
Jul 16, 2019 3:45AM PDT
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Yes, ignoring or not
Jul 16, 2019 5:55PM PDT

"taking the bait" would have been preferable, but I can relate to the urge to condemn such remarks promptly. It's a reaction that results in an escalation of heat and draws attention to Trump - which is his goal. Anyone thinking he would actually apologize or even come close to a backpedal should know by now he thrives on publicity. I think it's a shame he resorts to such "mirroring" or transfer of his feeling for people of colour - though I doubt he's as racist as some people claim, he's "enough" that he sees no shame in using a lever to pivot back and blame the women he falsely accuses of his nasty trope. Back in the early Seventies there was the "Hawks and Doves" regarding the Vietnam War - reduced to "America - Love It Or Leave It!" which was a fine mess. Just as then people continue to "conveniently forget" one of the highest duties of a citizen is to voice dissent when injustice is found - whether legalized injustice or a twisted version of "patriotism". A parallel would be the vast majority of the peaceful Islamic faith and a small but highly visible ISIS or other zealots. Just my two cents.

Rick

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... and here's your change, sir..
Jul 16, 2019 9:50PM PDT
Happy

Agreed.
I thought everyone knew this truism, from show biz. "Bad publicity is better than no publicity at all." Seems the politic biz folks don't know it.

The Bible, in one of its biblical rant moments, says that in the last days Satan will have his activities limited to the vicinity of the earth. From the beginning he was committed to "rule or ruin", so one of his chief activities now is to 'mislead the entire inhabited earth'. Rev 12;7-9. Not good government.
My Bible has four cross-references at that point, at 2Cor 4:4 and 11:14, Eph 2:2, and 1John 5:19. All have something to add to that thought.
Now, no informed, highly evolved follower of political events takes this "Satan" seriously as an actor on the world stage, but ...
Those biblical generalities seem well fleshed out by the activities of informed, highly etc. ones.

The newest of the verses cited is almost 2000 years old. A verified fact of history, even if the Bible is myth.
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The "squad"
Jul 17, 2019 4:55AM PDT

I could suggest that, with one member making mention that all of them are "people of color", the comment could be considered a veiled threat. The threat would be that any opposition to them is due to racism. It seems that they often appear on camera as a united front against the president. With so many others in their party sharing that objective (including around 60 freshmen), why have they not recruited a more diverse pack? There are both men and other women to choose from who are not "people of color". Would it also be fair to suggest these four also demonstrate racism...or sexism? I could think so.

Post was last edited on July 17, 2019 4:57 AM PDT

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good point
Jul 17, 2019 5:10PM PDT

I myself have been on the receiving end of sexism a few times. Once I was at a cocktail party in a friend's house and most of the people in the living room were men who were not exactly people I normally talk with or share interests with ( mostly younger than I was and sharing crude jokes and sports anecdotes). So I wandered around and found four or five women chatting in the kitchen. I introduced myself and attempted to join in their conversation, casually. After a few minutes one of the women said " go back to the 'boys room' " - for no apparent reason. I was gentlemanly and left but first asked how I had offended her - she said just being a man was enough. Shrug. The other women seemed a little embarrassed but no one else said squat. Later I found out from my friend that the woman in question was a bona-fide "man-hater" and was known for starting similar "scenes" so I felt a (little) better about the whole incident!

I don't know if "The Squad" has an "agenda" against men, but it would not surprise me if they felt defensive because of all the examination and abuse that has been leveled at them - just for being women and especially for being"uppity" women who just happen to be women of colour also. So in closing I think they are right to complain about Trump's remarks and attacks - that kind of talk should have died in common discourse decades ago, and especially from a President it is disgraceful and gives him negative stature in my eyes.

Rick

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I missed your boy/girl anecdote earlier.
Jul 20, 2019 8:25AM PDT

Good thing you asked. Her snotty answer spoke for itself; not your fault at all, then. It takes more courage than the others had to jump in with common sense.
In college I hung out with the gay contingent because they were active politically, and I wanted to learn from them. I observed some students and staff with communication difficulties, but not many. I don't recall having any bad occurrences. (I once went to the Women's Center desk to look for a friend. The only person there was a woman who was clearly uncomfortable- even fearful- talking with me. In context, it had to be bad experiences with other men, perhaps lifetime. Felt sorry for her.)

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same here, in a way -
Jul 20, 2019 8:34PM PDT

my "cliche" during my brief college attendance included all sorts. I got many valuable tips from gay friends. The only 'clashes' of any note were from lesbians - and only twice was I truly hurt by anti-male remarks or behaviour. And both of those were understandable in retrospect.

Rick

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Your last paragraph is disturbing to me
Jul 21, 2019 3:56AM PDT

It seems you are voicing sympathy for them and excusing their outrageous behavior and statements.."they felt defensive because of all the examination and abuse that has been leveled at them". Their 'agenda' in my opinion is that they are obnoxious and hateful on purpose and then cry 'foul' and play the victim when they are challenged or criticized for those comments. They can't have it both ways....either they are 'strong' women or they are 'victims' but they can't have it both ways. THEY chose to run for office in a divided atmosphere and THEY chose to challenge even their own somewhat 'same thinkers' for not going 'far enough' in their opinion.....so THEY are choosing to rock many boats at the same time (kind of like throwing crap at a wall and hoping that at least some of it will stick).

They've been in the arena for less than six months and started throwing their weight around almost immediately starting with AOC's public statement about how SHE would be the 'boss'. BUT if ANYBODY, including her actual boss (Pelosi), challenges them, they immediately toss the race card and are 'victimized' because they are 'women of color'. Excuse me, but I AM ALSO A WOMAN OF COLOR....WHITE...and I don't see that ANY of these women are as important to this country as they believe they are....and they sure as hell don't have the power they believe they have. And the more they open their mouths, the more they prove it.

You stated that Trump has negative stature.....show me something POSITIVE that has come from these four women....everything that comes out of their mouths is negative, and I've found in my lifetime, that when you have a people around you who are nothing BUT negative every minute of their lives, other people discard everything you have to say pretty quickly.

In my opinion, all four of them are temporary annoyances and will soon be gone but as long as they insist on being on the news 24 hours a day to get their 15 minutes of fame, Trump will have a field day tying them all to the Democrat party unless Pelosi's group grow some balls and disavows them real fast. It's obvious they are trying to distance themselves from them because you don't hear a peep from most of them, including the crazies they already have who USED to make all the news (like Maxine Waters et al).

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RE: excusing their outrageous behavior and statements..
Jul 21, 2019 12:25PM PDT

outrageous behavior and statements..

MORE outrageous behavior and statements..THAN DJT has made?

"outrageous" is in the eye of the beholder?

outrageous.....outspoken.....telling it like it is?

All qualities I recall you admiring in DJT.

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A British character in A Passage to India
Jul 21, 2019 12:26PM PDT

pointed out that he and his fellow Whites were more a pinko-grey. Didn't endear him to them.

A commentator pointed out that these women have hit the ground running. Their statements and actions, so far, are exactly what they promised while campaigning. That alone makes them scary. Happy

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RE It's obvious they are trying to distance themselves from
Jul 21, 2019 1:33PM PDT
It's obvious they are trying to distance themselves from them because you don't hear a peep from most of them, inc


Just as you don't hear a peep from most of the Repugs about DJT?
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They are too progressive for some
Jul 21, 2019 5:11PM PDT

people, that is for sure. Maybe a lot of folks think they are rocking the boat too much - they could just be right on that.

Pelosi is a realist and has decades of experience working the "system" as it is and no doubt figures they will be destructive to the party or too much too soon and also as you note ammo for Trump to point at as evidence of far left ideology "gone amok" as it were. But to "The Squad" _that_ is the problem - too many old white guys telling us all how things work. To me it is refreshing that a contingent has the courage to bring up policies that look forward long-term and radically - which is what we need to do about climate change and the economic outlook for the majority of working-class schlubs like me and far younger souls who dread this "gig economy" that seems to be taking over the landscape. In other words they want to close the gap between the very rich and those who are at poverty level or just those who heretofore would have been classified as middle-class and now find themselves floundering
to keep their heads above water. The total stagnation of earnings in the lower 75 or more percent of the population is astounding.

So while the people who envision solutions to these problems may never gain enough traction to enact them, one has to start _somewhere_ to get the ball rolling. I figure you reckon their methods are wrong or improbably optimistic, but I think history will prove you wrong. The rest of the world has these problems too, and right now a lot of other countries are either laughing at
us and our President's actions, or more generally sad to see what the U.S. has become. Trump may think he has the answers, but I seriously doubt his "brand" will pull off any miracles anytime soon.

Rick

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"Your last paragraph is disturbing to me"
Jul 21, 2019 6:18PM PDT

"It seems you are voicing sympathy for [people I don't like] and excusing their outrageous behavior and statements [that I disagree with]"

Yes, that does disturb you, often. Call him [us] names. That always settles you. Uses lots less of Lee's server space as well. Carbon footprint and all that.
</sarcasm>
Oops. Forgot the grinnie. Already hit SUBMIT.

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While you're catching your breath, Toni,
Jul 21, 2019 8:03PM PDT

here's an anti-anti-Trump, free of charge.

"Trump relished rally chant, Ocasio-Cortez tells constituents in Queens"
(Recent Reuters)

I did see the expected orange hot dog, but no relish. Her mind wanted to see it, though, so ...

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While you're catching your breath, Toni,
Jul 21, 2019 8:07PM PDT

here's an anti-anti-Trump, free of charge.
Recent Reuters: "Trump relished rally chant, Ocasio-Cortez tells constituents in Queens"

I did see the expected orange hotdog, but no relish.
Her mind wanted to see it, though ...

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(NT) The stupid CBS dog did it.
Jul 21, 2019 8:47PM PDT
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Should've told her...
Jul 21, 2019 10:43AM PDT

"Honey, I'm Lezzie bait!" The other women or some would have laughed.

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I think all the possibility of humor
Jul 21, 2019 5:56PM PDT

was absent that exact moment. But ya never know. Where were you when I needed you? :^)

Rick

P.S. thanks again for the hot tip on roll-your-owns - Sister and I are enjoying the savings along with the better 'tobaccy' !

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Tobacco
Jul 21, 2019 6:28PM PDT

is a filthy weed
And from the Devil doth proceed.

Saw that on a girl's sampler once.

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which is the unhealthiest?
Jul 22, 2019 7:23AM PDT

Fatty food, Sugared food, or Tobacco? All 3 can lead to atherosclerosis of the arteries.

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(NT) And how much nutrition do you get from tobacco?
Jul 22, 2019 11:11AM PDT
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it's a natural "anti-biotic"
Jul 22, 2019 4:06PM PDT

and increases brain power.

Post was last edited on July 22, 2019 4:08 PM PDT

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Both news to.me.
Jul 22, 2019 6:16PM PDT

It can be used as an insecticide; not very attractive.
The other two in your list are part of many foods. Used in excess are unhealthy.
Tobacco, used at all, is carcinogenic. Hardly a good comparison. Unless ... "carcinogenic" is fake, deep state news???

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Explain George Burns
Jul 22, 2019 6:32PM PDT

I think cancer is more related to genetics. Consider Dana Reeves, died of lung cancer, yet neither her nor Christopher were smokers. If cancer runs in a family, then absolutely don't smoke. If you are severly allergic to shellfish or other sea life, then absolutely don't consume it. I never encourage non smoker to do so. I will however help a smoker find a cheaper alternative if that's what he enjoys, especially since it's a tax targeted commodity that makes the tea tax of England objected to in Boston, look mild in comparison.

Post was last edited on July 22, 2019 6:36 PM PDT

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CDCs take, based on research, is what I gave you.
Jul 22, 2019 8:50PM PDT

Your take:
"I think cancer is more related to genetics. Consider [anecdotes]..."

Some avoid shellfish and peanuts, while most eat, enjoy and thrive. Cancer is not an allergic reaction.

These are from Jehovah's organizarion: https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=tobacco
Better advice than you give to "help a smoker find a cheaper alternative if that's what he enjoys."
Rom 12:1,2.
Rom 6:16
2Cor 7:1
Secondhand (side stream) smoke:
Mt 22:39
1Cor 10:24
Php 2:4
"A report by WHO warns: 'There is no safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke.'"

The taxes are for Caesar. Render unto him, if you have the habit.
Anyway, none of this is for you, James. You'll find excuses for all of it.
But there are, as has been noted, lurkers.

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The Temple
Jul 23, 2019 7:48AM PDT

was a very smokey place where God's priests officiated. They also had censors with various spices placed on hot coals they carried around with them. All that burning fat from animal sacrifices had to make a lot of smoke. When God visited the temple it became so filled with God's "second hand smoke" (Was he enjoying a few Havana's back from His vacation?) so much even those smoke carrying priests found it too much for them. I doubt God worries that much about people and smoke. My father didn't smoke nor drink, his younger brother did both. They both died at the same age of 81. Genetics!

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"You'll find excuses for all of it."
Jul 23, 2019 1:00PM PDT
Grin